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DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+

DonR

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Ask 10 people what a "live" sound is and you will get 11 different answers but almost always reverb will be a part of it. Any AVR from the last 20 years will do that for you. I think even my RCA AVR from the early 90's could do that.
 

Music1969

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Unfortunately it's just another example of a strange misguided approach.
He's got a large and loyal following, that will buy each new version of his products.

It's all marketing that works with those fans. Good to keep sales going.
 

Robbo99999

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He's got a large and loyal following, that will buy each new version of his products.

It's all marketing that works with those fans. Good to keep sales going.
It's probably gonna be on a diminishing trend, given objective measuring websites like ASR, and the fact that large parts of the world are entering an economic slow down in the form of energy crisis / war / etc.
 

Music1969

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It's probably gonna be on a diminishing trend, given objective measuring websites like ASR, and the fact that large parts of the world are entering an economic slow down in the form of energy crisis / war / etc.
Well objectively most of his currents DACs have measured well on ASR (except his flagship) - ignoring prices.

He really doesn't need to write a lot of the strange things he does but his fans love it.
 

MarcosCh

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In linear terms...

If the 0dB (signal voltage) were the height of Mt Everest...

The noise level would be 0.0110168694036009 inches.

That is, according to the scribblins I made on the back of my nakkin.

That's 0.27982848285146283418 mm for the folks on the other sides of the borders.
If we only knew the height of mt. Everest with such precision :D

 

Ornette

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That is now accepted usage of 'Invested' but I strongly suspect it acquired that usage fairly recently and the usage was coined by advertisers and salesmen.
Feel free to cite a reference supporting your "strong suspicion". In any case, I initially objected/responded to the comment:

A pet-peeve of mine of people calling consumption for "investment" when it clearly isn't.

based on the current accepted definitions of the word investment. An investment is not strictly limited to capital outlaid with the intent to profit monetarily.
Then there is this defintion:

[countable] a thing that is worth buying because it will be useful or helpful e.g A microwave is a good investment.


Whilst a DAC could be regarded as investment in that sense of the word, in that it has a use, in the context of the statement made that usage makes no sense:

''Still, in UK a used Dave's value, after say five years, still is in 60 percent of the new.
Not a bad investment.''


Since once sold it ceases to be defined as an investment re the 'Useful' definition of the word and since the loss would be approximately £4K on the £10K purchase price it does not conform to the other meaning of investment either: The outlay of money usually for income or profit
If the poster's idea of "not a bad investment" (monetarily) is losing 40% of something's value over the course of five years, then I won't be listening to his advice on the stock market. The only compensation for the almost certain loss in value of a durable consumer good is the utility/enjoyment it provides during the course of ownership. From that standpoint, a new DAVE is probably not a great investment as there are cheaper alternatives that provide the same or better utility (from a technical standpoint). OTOH, if a given consumer has convinced himself (or had Rob Watts convince him) that DAVE is the best-sounding DAC available at or below its price point, then he may feel that owning a DAVE for five years was an excellent investment (in his own happiness/quality of life). I will assume that "Not a bad investment" was intended to imply that many DACs wouldn't even be worth 60% of their original retail price after five years.

In any case, I will continue to consider the money I've spent on home A/V equipment to be an investment. If others disagree, that is their prerogative. Apologies for going somewhat OT.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Feel free to cite a reference supporting your "strong suspicion". In any case, I initially objected/responded to the comment:

A pet-peeve of mine of people calling consumption for "investment" when it clearly isn't.

based on the current accepted definitions of the word investment. An investment is not strictly limited to capital outlaid with the intent to profit monetarily.

If the poster's idea of "not a bad investment" (monetarily) is losing 40% of something's value over the course of five years, then I won't be listening to his advice on the stock market. The only compensation for the almost certain loss in value of a durable consumer good is the utility/enjoyment it provides during the course of ownership. From that standpoint, a new DAVE is probably not a great investment as there are cheaper alternatives that provide the same or better utility (from a technical standpoint). OTOH, if a given consumer has convinced himself (or had Rob Watts convince him) that DAVE is the best-sounding DAC available at or below its price point, then he may feel that owning a DAVE for five years was an excellent investment (in his own happiness/quality of life). I will assume that "Not a bad investment" was intended to imply that many DACs wouldn't even be worth 60% of their original retail price after five years.

In any case, I will continue to consider the money I've spent on home A/V equipment to be an investment. If others disagree, that is their prerogative. Apologies for going somewhat OT.
I would consider loosing 100% on a let’s say an 800usd Topping DAC still a better investment than loosing 40% on a 10k plus Chord DAC from a pure financial point of view. No?
 

IVX

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Yes for years he complained that he was the only one with an APx555, and nobody elses measurements could be trusted

And now complains his feelings are hurt by APx555 measurements lol
APx555b is way too noisy an instrument to measure modern DACs. Even cheap CS43131 with 550nV(A) goes under the AP's radar due to APx555b residual noise is almost double. Let's hope that AP will release some APx666 not so shamefully noisy. ;)
 

Jimbob54

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if a given consumer has convinced himself (or had Rob Watts convince him) that DAVE is the best-sounding DAC available at or below its price point, then he may feel that owning a DAVE for five years was an excellent investment (in his own happiness/quality of life)
I suspect this is at the heart of the Chord business model and the reason for RW continued and constant presence where Chord products are well perceived.
 

Robbo99999

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New interview with Rob at CanJam recently.

LOL

I just watched a few solid portions of that - it's the the same old nonsense again but with loads and loads of irrelevant chit chat added in! It sounds like he's got another M-Scaler in the works which is more expensive and "even better" :facepalm: (those are my quotes). Oh well. (I'm not sure it's a good idea that he keeps "name dropping" DCA Stealth, it's not like proper no-nonsense design works by osmosis).
 

Music1969

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I just watched a few solid portions of that - it's the the same old nonsense again but with loads and loads of irrelevant chit chat added in! It sounds like he's got another M-Scaler in the works which is more expensive and "even better" :facepalm: (those are my quotes). Oh well. (I'm not sure it's a good idea that he keeps "name dropping" DCA Stealth, it's not like proper no-nonsense design works by osmosis).

You missed the 'money no object' DAC coming :oops:

It will probably dwarf DAVE's price :oops:
 

Robbo99999

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You missed the 'money no object' DAC coming :oops:

It will probably dwarf DAVE's price :oops:
Oh right, there's that and a new M-Scaler then? (Something about an Ultima range I think he mentioned)
 

Somafunk

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Did he mention that he takes an m scaler and power supply when taking flights?
 

Robbo99999

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Robbo99999

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And multichannel A to D for pro audio - to complete the loop ! :D
Yes, I forgot about when he talked about he was creating somekind of new ADC.

So, somekind of new ADC, a new M-Scaler, and a new DAC....the new incoming things from him.
 
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