DAC listening test files - updated with new filters files

[pma]

But the two steep filters are easy anyway, no need at least to me to do the third filter; I'm no bat... My hearing goes abruptly down past 14-15k.

OK, understood. Mine as well.

It is also SPL-dependent.

Definitely. And more does not necessarily mean better ear resolution.

 

[Thomas_A]

OK, understood. Mine as well.


Definitely. And more does not necessarily mean better ear resolution.

I could try an ABX with filters a bit higher corner f, but I am not sure what the question is here. If a broadband (and enough large dB) diff past 20k is audible? Or testing limits, e.g. 12-14-16k bessel as next steps?

 

[pma]

If a broadband (and enough large dB) diff past 20k is audible?

Yes, it was a basic question, if the filtering above 20 kHz (of the music sample with content up to 30kHz) is audible for someone. Original x Filter2. 8 and 10kHz filters added for curiosity. 8, 10, 20kHz LPF are all Butterworth 8-order.

I would wait for more results before using further filters. Maybe Butterworth 12, 14, 16kHz, maybe "brickwall" 20kHz. I do not like brickwalls for other purpose than restricting mirror images.

 

[pma]

OK, I am adding the 20kHz "brickwall". Filter4.

dchesF4.zip

drive.google.com

and here are the previous already linked files including original (orig, Filters 1,2,3)

dchestest.zip

drive.google.com

 

[Thomas_A]

Yes, it was a basic question, if the filtering above 20 kHz (of the music sample with content up to 30kHz) is audible for someone. Original x Filter2. 8 and 10kHz filters added for curiosity. 8, 10, 20kHz LPF are all Butterworth 8-order.

I would wait for more results before using further filters. Maybe Butterworth 12, 14, 16kHz, maybe "brickwall" 20kHz. I do not like brickwalls for other purpose than restricting mirror images.

Ok, understood. I would say to succeed test files needs to have a quite large and broadband difference at those f, so steep filters or brick wall. At least among us +50 to +60 years old guys

 

[pma]

20kHz brickwall added, post #504

Low frequency brickwalls - like 10 or 12 kHz - ringing.

 

[pjug]

20kHz brickwall added, post #504

Low frequency brickwalls - like 10 or 12 kHz - preringing.

Thank you for making these.

 

[pjug]

Saw that now, I've switched mac and use my M5 more and forgot to change settings. But the two steep filters are easy anyway, no need at least to me to do the third filter; I'm no bat... My hearing goes abruptly down past 14-15k.

We should try all the filters and be open to the possibility of hearing a difference. Pawel seemed to be hearing passband equiripple on an earlier test. Here is is again comparing original with filter 4. Pretty low level here though compared to the ripple in the other test.

 

[Thomas_A]

20kHz brickwall added, post #504

Low frequency brickwalls - like 10 or 12 kHz - ringing.

Difficult.

I made an initial attempt got 10/16, made it again and got the same. Will try again.

foo_abx 2.2.3 report
foobar2000 v2.25.10
0126-09-11 12:57:07

File A: dchesorig1.wav
SHA1: 9578d6c3b0a59c80ea046a0ecf3fa6688a3e2aff
File B: dchesF4.wav
SHA1: 54455f2b344d6a03f08082408d2fc08ab5ff6deb

Output:
Core Audio : Default, 24-bit
Crossfading: NO

12:57:07 : Test started.
13:05:01 : Test restarted.
13:05:01 : 01/01
13:05:56 : Test restarted.
13:05:56 : 02/02
13:06:41 : Test restarted.
13:06:41 : 02/03
13:07:12 : Test restarted.
13:07:12 : 02/04
13:07:56 : Test restarted.
13:07:56 : 03/05
13:08:13 : Test restarted.
13:08:13 : 04/06
13:08:27 : Test restarted.
13:08:27 : 04/07
13:08:42 : Test restarted.
13:08:42 : 05/08
13:08:54 : Test restarted.
13:08:54 : 05/09
13:10:07 : Test restarted.
13:10:07 : 05/10
13:10:23 : Test restarted.
13:10:23 : 06/11
13:10:38 : Test restarted.
13:10:38 : 07/12
13:10:54 : Test restarted.
13:10:54 : 08/13
13:11:04 : Test restarted.
13:11:04 : 09/14
13:11:30 : Test restarted.
13:11:30 : 10/15
13:11:53 : Test restarted.
13:11:53 : 10/16
13:11:53 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 10/16
p-value: 0.2272 (22.72%)

-- signature --
0c9c04ba09e5cf602375882efa92010361977d17

 

[pjug]

Yes, it was a basic question, if the filtering above 20 kHz (of the music sample with content up to 30kHz) is audible for someone. Original x Filter2. 8 and 10kHz filters added for curiosity. 8, 10, 20kHz LPF are all Butterworth 8-order.

I would wait for more results before using further filters. Maybe Butterworth 12, 14, 16kHz, maybe "brickwall" 20kHz. I do not like brickwalls for other purpose than restricting mirror images.

I am having trouble hearing a difference even with the F1 filter.

I was expecting this to be the Chesky cymbal track. Were we going to try to do this with a very clean cymbal recording like @J.J requested? For now I will try with this one but asking for after this.

 

[Thomas_A]

Next try

foo_abx 2.2.3 report
foobar2000 v2.25.10
0126-09-11 13:17:07

File A: dchesorig1.wav
SHA1: 9578d6c3b0a59c80ea046a0ecf3fa6688a3e2aff
File B: dchesF4.wav
SHA1: 54455f2b344d6a03f08082408d2fc08ab5ff6deb

Output:
Core Audio : Default, 24-bit
Crossfading: NO

13:17:07 : Test started.
13:20:44 : Test restarted.
13:20:44 : 01/01
13:21:35 : Test restarted.
13:21:35 : 02/02
13:23:06 : Test restarted.
13:23:06 : 03/03
13:23:16 : Test restarted.
13:23:16 : 04/04
13:23:28 : Test restarted.
13:23:28 : 04/05
13:23:42 : Test restarted.
13:23:42 : 05/06
13:24:49 : Test restarted.
13:24:49 : 06/07
13:25:12 : Test restarted.
13:25:12 : 07/08
13:25:44 : Test restarted.
13:25:44 : 08/09
13:26:07 : Test restarted.
13:26:07 : 09/10
13:26:25 : Test restarted.
13:26:25 : 10/11
13:26:44 : Test restarted.
13:26:44 : 11/12
13:27:14 : Test restarted.
13:27:14 : 11/13
13:27:50 : Test restarted.
13:27:50 : 12/14
13:28:14 : Test restarted.
13:28:14 : 13/15
13:28:47 : Test restarted.
13:28:47 : 14/16
13:28:47 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 14/16
p-value: 0.0021 (0.21%)

-- signature --
c9141c58ebff360291f10219700107848beea204

 

[somebodyelse]

So 24/32 so far - unless there's a reason for separating them, like having spotted a tell that you missed first time round.

 

[Thomas_A]

So 24/32 so far - unless there's a reason for separating them, like having spotted a tell that you missed first time round.

Well I did three in a row, but firsts one 10/16 I did not save was more of a training session. But three attempts in a row is 34/48, p=0.0028.

 

[pjug]

So 24/32 so far - unless there's a reason for separating them, like having spotted a tell that you missed first time round.

That is very convincing, though: p is 0.35% without considering the improvement.

 

[pma]

So 24/32 so far - unless there's a reason for separating them, like having spotted a tell that you missed first time round.

p = 0.0035, passed easily

 

[pma]

I am having trouble hearing a difference even with the F1 filter.

I was expecting this to be the Chesky cymbal track. Were we going to try to do this with a very clean cymbal recording like @J.J requested? For now I will try with this one but asking for after this.

It is a “Chesky track”. Not sure that the cymbal alone tells more. BTW, I posted a “clean cymbal” yesterday in this thread, you can try it.

 

[pma]

All who have been and will be trying the files, thanks so much. Unexpectedly good results!

So the 20kHz brickwall F4 is easier to tell than the 20kHz 8-order Butterworth? Anyone tried dchesF2.wav?

 

[Thomas_A]

We should try all the filters and be open to the possibility of hearing a difference. Pawel seemed to be hearing passband equiripple on an earlier test. Here is is again comparing original with filter 4. Pretty low level here though compared to the ripple in the other test.
View attachment 557958

It think it needs to be large difference in SPL >20 kHz and be broadband to have any chance to be audible, and also possible to listen to it whithout ear damage. Like a file with high level content >20k and brick wall - filters need to be very steep to get a difference that could be audible.

 

[RandomEar]

It think it needs to be large difference in SPL >20 kHz and be broadband to have any chance to be audible, and also possible to listen to it whithout ear damage. Like a file with high level content >20k and brick wall - filters need to be very steep to get a difference that could be audible.

What equipment did you use for your latest ABX test?

EDIT: Maybe we should make a habit out of posting that info with every ABX result. I didn't do it before, either. But it can't hurt.

 

[pma]

EDIT: Maybe we should make a habit out of posting that infor with every ABX result. I didn't do it before, either. But it can't hurt.

Absolutely. There is a huge space for HW/SW mistakes. There must be no resampling, no sample rate converters, and ASIO or Wasapi Exclusive should be used. No OS file manipulation.