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DAC Implementation/sonic differences between the Marantz HD-DAC1 and the Marantz NA6006 streamer

Abe_W

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Audio_Scientists,
Which one may sound better? Is there anyone here who may have compared the two? The Marantz HD-DAC1 or the built-in DAC of the Marantz NA6006 streamer. My primary music medium is digital flac files that would be plugged into the USB input of either one of those.
 

Czech6

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HD-DAC1: lifestyle-size, 2014, CS4398, async USB-B
NA6006: full-size, 2018, ESS9016, wireless - but NO USB-B input!

Based on the above I'd expect the newer NA6006 to be better, however note it only has the front USB-A input, I was quite surprised to find there is no USB-B!

I'm using an older (2010) CS4398 based NA7004 which I still find enjoyable, however I suspect it wouldn't fare well in measurements, similar to other Marantz units tested here...
 

VintageFlanker

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Welcome to ASR. :)

Which one may sound better?
Better doesn't mean that much here. It has to sound transparent enough nor it does not.

Based on the above I'd expect the newer NA6006 to be better,
The reality measured here showed that we can't speculate based on the chip only.;)

There are few Marantz gears which have been measured here (Only two, to my knowledge). None of both showed proper design for their price point. It looks like the company, today, values audiophile buzzwords more than technical/engineering approach. As Amir says often, the lack of measurements/detailed specs is the first warning sign...
 
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Abe_W

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Welcome to ASR. :)


Better doesn't mean that much here. It has to sound transparent enough nor it does not.


The reality measured here showed that we can't speculate based on the chip only.;)

There are few Marantz gears which have been measured here (Only two, to my knowledge). None of both showed proper design for their price point. It looks like the company, today, values audiophile buzzwords more than technical/engineering approach. As Amir says often, the lack of measurements/detailed specs is the first warning sign...

I saw Amir's review of the amplifier HD-AMP1 and it didn't wow him. Would the HD-DAC1 and the NA6006 have a better DAC implementation possibly? Don't think he's reviewed these 2 yet?
 
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Abe_W

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HD-DAC1: lifestyle-size, 2014, CS4398, async USB-B
NA6006: full-size, 2018, ESS9016, wireless - but NO USB-B input!

Based on the above I'd expect the newer NA6006 to be better, however note it only has the front USB-A input, I was quite surprised to find there is no USB-B!

I'm using an older (2010) CS4398 based NA7004 which I still find enjoyable, however I suspect it wouldn't fare well in measurements, similar to other Marantz units tested here...

I am not too concerned about the lack of usb b. i prefer to plug a flash drive straight into the unit and let it play my files (eliminate the need for cables).

If i need to use my pc as a player once a while, my pc has a optical output that can be run into the optical input of the Marantz.
 

Czech6

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Welcome to ASR. :)
Better doesn't mean that much here. It has to sound transparent enough nor it does not.
Salut à Paris! Just listening to Jarre's Oxygène...

I agree with your assessment, that's what I implied in my post. However... your choice of words "transparent enough" hints that deciding upon what's "better" is ultimately subjective, and not necessarily based on measurements only. I have a very recent experience to share:

Having discovered Okto Research on this site I participated in their American Tour and just returned the dac8 PRO after extensive testing. It would seem that there's absolutely no contest between my lowly NA7004 and the new über DAC... and as expected, Okto was cleaner and more transparent. To my ears, differences were quite subtle though, and the fact that the Marantz has more flexible input/output options for my intended uses (and a more powerful headphone amp) makes things less clear-cut.

So while I sometimes miss Okto's clarity a little bit, I still thoroughly enjoy my Marantz - I guess that means it's "transparent enough" for me! :D
 

VintageFlanker

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To my ears, differences were quite subtle though, and the fact that the Marantz has more flexible input/output options for my intended uses (and a more powerful headphone amp) makes things less clear-cut.

So while I sometimes miss Okto's clarity a little bit, I still thoroughly enjoy my Marantz - I guess that means it's "transparent enough" for me! :D
Congrats. That means: save your money for something else than a DAC!
I saw Amir's review of the amplifier HD-AMP1 and it didn't wow him. Would the HD-DAC1 and the NA6006 have a better DAC implementation possibly? Don't think he's reviewed these 2 yet?
Specs announced for the HD-DAC1 is 98dB THD (+N?). Not that great but not terrible either. Still to be checked, tho. Why focusing on Marantz especially? Is this about looking of the units? (Owned PM8005/SA8005 some years back. I would understand!).
 

JJB70

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Marantz seems to be a company living on former glory. I am sure their equipment sounds fine, and I still like their industrial design, but in terms of design, build and sound quality they don't appear to be anything special yet a lot of their gear is quite expensive for what it is. Years ago they made some remarkable gear and the build quality of their higher end models was exemplary.
 

VintageFlanker

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Marantz seems to be a company living on former glory. I am sure their equipment sounds fine, and I still like their industrial design, but in terms of design, build and sound quality they don't appear to be anything special yet a lot of their gear is quite expensive for what it is. Years ago they made some remarkable gear and the build quality of their higher end models was exemplary.
At least, their PM-10 flagship uses NC500 modules. It should perform well on the bench. Still a bit of a shame they ask 8000€ for it.
 
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Abe_W

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Congrats. That means: save your money for something else than a DAC!

Specs announced for the HD-DAC1 is 98dB THD (+N?). Not that great but not terrible either. Still to be checked, tho. Why focusing on Marantz especially? Is this about looking of the units? (Owned PM8005/SA8005 some years back. I would understand!).

My existing streamer died outside of warranty (crying here man). So, i'm looking for a replacement streamer and built in DAC implementation that sounds good a) without the need for a stand-alone DAC and b) without breaking the bank under a 1000 bucks. I am sure there is good stuff out there above a 1000 bucks, but it just doesn't fit my budget now trying to put a kid through college.

Here's what i am looking at.....
- Denon DNP800NE costs 600 bucks
- Marantz NA6006 costs 700 bucks
- Bluesound node 2i costs 900 bucks
- NAD CI 720 costs 900 bucks

I am hoping that the Marantz would sound better than the Denon, Bluesound and NAD here. I tend to have more faith in Japanese electronics (when it comes to bang for the buck) than what comes from the rest of the world.
 

VintageFlanker

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I am hoping that the Marantz would sound better than the Denon, Bluesound and NAD here. I tend to have more faith in Japanese electronics (when it comes to bang for the buck)
Denon is Japanese as well, and owns Marantz, for what matters. As ASR and measurements teached us: you can't do your choice by the country of the Manufacturers (not to mention the country of build... The Marantz you mentioned are not made in Japan).
- Denon DNP800NE costs 600 bucks
- Marantz NA6006 costs 700 bucks
Both have the exact same performance specs (115dB SNR, THD 0.002%), go by price or design, it's up to you.
 

JJB70

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Japanese manufacturers are like many in Europe in that they may keep production of high end statement products at home whilst outsourcing their more prosaic lines to lower cost economies.
 

KxDx

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Have you bought stuff from these guys before? Do their refurbs work right after you get them in the mail?
I've bought from AC4L many times over the past 15 years or so. Sometimes new, sometimes refurbs. I've never gotten a single DOA item from them. They are a legit dealer.
 
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Abe_W

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Japanese manufacturers are like many in Europe in that they may keep production of high end statement products at home whilst outsourcing their more prosaic lines to lower cost economies.

I am sure Japanese companies do plenty of outsourcing with manufacturing like their American/European counterpart to cut manufacturing costs. But, when it comes to engineering R&D/design for manufacturin/quality/etc, I just have more faith in them.

I am a US engineer (not in the audio industry, different industry altogether) who's worked with engineers from various parts of the world. It is just an observation. The Japanese and Chinese engineers work like machines for so many damn hours a day. In the US, it's a hit or miss. Some guys work hard and some are lazy. But, boy, these European engineers are so damn lazy man ( German engineers, being the only exception). Getting even a honest 8 hr workday from a engineer from Spain, France, etc seems rather difficult (wining, dining and being on a semi-permanent vacation). It is just a general observation i've made over a couple of decades and there are exceptions (obviously). But, inefficient labor is non-value added cost and the consumer pays more for less, a.k.a less bang for the buck. I am sure this applies to the audio industry as well. I am sure some European guys on this forum are going to get real mad at me for this post. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. LOL
 
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Abe_W

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Denon is Japanese as well, and owns Marantz, for what matters. As ASR and measurements teached us: you can't do your choice by the country of the Manufacturers (not to mention the country of build... The Marantz you mentioned are not made in Japan).
Both have the exact same performance specs (115dB SNR, THD 0.002%), go by price or design, it's up to you.

Yes, I am aware that Denon is Marantz's more humble sister from Japan. The Marantz offers more things to tweak though (filters, lock range, etc), which is worth a extra 100 dollars to me.
 
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Czech6

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FWIW: my NA7004 received several free feature updates over its lifetime: gapless playback, AirPlay support, 192 kHz FLAC decoding... hopefully they'll keep up this level of support for new products as well - digital landscape keeps changing!
 

VintageFlanker

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But, when it comes to engineering R&D/design for manufacturin/quality/etc, I just have more faith in them.
When it comes to Audio, most japanese brands (today) spend definitely more in marketing than engineering. Or it lacks japanese gears here to see how they are capable to produce SOTA electronics anymore. At the end: Country doesn't matter, except from a marketing point of view.
But, boy, these European engineers are so damn lazy man ( German engineers, being the only exception). Getting even a honest 8 hr workday from a engineer from Spain, France, etc seems rather difficult (wining, dining and being on a semi-permanent vacation). It is just a general observation i've made over a couple of decades and there are exceptions (obviously).
Since this is a science forum, better bring some sociological research to understand why... :rolleyes:
I am sure some European guys on this forum are going to get real mad at me for this post. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. LOL
You better be scared, then. According my poll, most active members here are living in Europe...:eek:.
 
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