A lot of people don’t like optical interface because it has a reputation of poor jitter. I personally can’t tell the difference between USB, coaxial, or optical in my setup. The device I linked only takes in optical but can output at CD bitrate or higher via RCA or at lower Bluetooth bitrates. There are plenty of DACs that take optical input so you have a lot of options.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
DAC for the MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, early 2013)
- Thread starter NoobMD
- Start date
A lot of people don’t like optical interface because it has a reputation of poor jitter. I personally can’t tell the difference between USB, coaxial, or optical in my setup. The device I linked only takes in optical but can output at CD bitrate or higher via RCA or at lower Bluetooth bitrates. There are plenty of DACs that take optical input so you have a lot of options.
Connecting your speakers through optical, or to a DAC through optical, would give you better sound than Bluetooth, most likely.
I would suggest getting a USB interface, as it will be more versatile. That was always a cool feature of the MacBook Pro's but they stopped the optical output either the 2014 or 2015 versions. But pretty much any laptop has USB.
I like connecting my MacBook Pro to an AVR optical in, that's some serious bang for the buck.
I like connecting my MacBook Pro to an AVR optical in, that's some serious bang for the buck.
- Thread Starter
- #24
Thank you for your suggestion. That said, my MacBook Pro (early 2013) has an optical out through the 3.5 mm headphone jack when using a mini link-to-Toslink cable.
I think that will serve you just fine. I only mention the USB interface because you might want to change computers, or sell it, or share with a friend.
Zek
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2018
- Messages
- 1,609
- Likes
- 2,175
It all depends on the DAC capability.
I can play DSD 128 files on my Mini Mac (Late 2012).
FooYatChong
Active Member
Maybe consider the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital.2370/
Topping DX3Pro, once they sorted out the issues:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-topping-dx3pro-dac-and-headphone-amp.4967/
Ofcourse the RME if money is no object.
Lots of alternatives if you don't care about the headphone amp.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital.2370/
Topping DX3Pro, once they sorted out the issues:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-topping-dx3pro-dac-and-headphone-amp.4967/
Ofcourse the RME if money is no object.
Lots of alternatives if you don't care about the headphone amp.
I think you may well be wasting your money. The sonic benefits of higher sampling rates than the CD Red Book standard are questionable even for the best systems, but would surely be inaudible on your system. For the best sound quality in your current system I would certainly use a wired connection instead of Bluetooth.
So what remains is the question whether there are benefits to using an external DAC instead of the inbuilt DAC of the Macbook. Short of actual measurements of your Macbook, my hunch would be that it has an excellent inbuilt DAC, as most Apple products do (see here, e.g. https://kenrockwell.com/apple/index.htm and http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/10/measurements-apple-iphone-4-iphone-6.html http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.html). I am sure a really good DAC could make a (small) difference, but in order to hear it you would need far better speakers.
So what remains is the question whether there are benefits to using an external DAC instead of the inbuilt DAC of the Macbook. Short of actual measurements of your Macbook, my hunch would be that it has an excellent inbuilt DAC, as most Apple products do (see here, e.g. https://kenrockwell.com/apple/index.htm and http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/10/measurements-apple-iphone-4-iphone-6.html http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.html). I am sure a really good DAC could make a (small) difference, but in order to hear it you would need far better speakers.
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #32
Wow, that helps and thank you. In a nut shell, it seems to be better to save money to invest in better speakers instead.
Hello NoobMD,
I'm a regular on the diyaudio forum, and just an occasional visitor here.
IMO many of the comments here are partly correct, but otherwise quite wrong. I'm sure that these comments were offered in good faith, so no one should feel miffed about my comment.
At the outset we should understand that most standalone DACs are effectively 2 devices;
i) a digital interface decoder (USB, coaxial s/pdif, optical s/pdif, HDMI)
ii) a digital-to-analogue converter.
Their ultimate audio performance is the sum of both functions.
Regarding jitter, yes, s/pdif (and optical s/pdif in particular) is inherently more prone to jitter than USB decoders ...
however a well implemented s/pdif interface can still outperform a poorly implemented USB interface!
Regarding bluetooth, there were some earlier implications that using one of the higher standard bluetooth protocols will overcome bluetooth's limitations. This is only partly correct, because datarate and compression-type are only one aspect of bluetooth's problems - another major flaw is that the digital audio output from the bluetooth decoder has very high jitter, so high that most D/A chips cannot reliably lock to it. So the makers of bluetooth decoders include their own onboard DAC, and this DAC is sub-par compared to other dedicated DAC chips.
There are a small number of standalone DACs which go to the trouble of including a bluetooth decoder which is buffered and stabilised so that the better-quality external DAC chip can be used, but these devices are rare.
If you like the convenience and functionality of bluetooth, fine. But if you genuinely want high fidelity, don't use it.
Regarding high-res audio; the current maximum supported samplerate with USB is 384kHz, with s/pdif it's 192kHz. Of course, not all USB or s/pdif hardware will go as high as the maximum.
I have only about 10 albums in my collection which are 192kHz. I don't know of any commercially available recordings at 384kHz.
Can I hear any difference between these recordings compared to conventional 44.1kHz? Generally no! I simply obtain the best technical version of my favourite albums, and maybe one day in the future the technology will evolve so that the difference is audibly obvious ... and then again, maybe not. But I don't overthink it, and I'm unconcerned.
If you don't wish to go to the trouble and expense that I do, I can assure you that you are not (currently) missing out on a particularly special listening experience.
If you do wish to use hi-res audio files on Mac/iTunes, there are some configuration changes necessary, see here -
https://www.macworld.com/article/1160651/how-to-find-and-play-high-resolution-audio-on-the-mac.html
Both Mac and Windows make it difficult to jump between audio files of different samplerates, and keep the audio bit-perfect. On Mac you can use third-party "audio engine" applications to help with this - such as Pure Music, Amarra, or Audirvana.
Phew. That's the technical stuff done.
Now let me give you some practical advice; you want to know if you will hear a (noticeable/significant) difference between your Macbook's internal DAC, and an external standalone DAC ... well I believe that with a sub-$100 DAC, probably not, but if you were to get one of Amir's recommended $100-and-above DACs, then probably yes.
Is this worthwhile for you? Only you can tell. See if you can borrow a Schiit Modi 3, and give it a try.
And since the Modi 3 supports both USB and optical s/pdif input, you can compare the sound quality of each (I think the USB will win).
Bear in mind that your present listening system is entry-level, but half-decent (in my opinion). So the $100 - $200 price range is where you should be looking.
If you want better sound, sure, you can step up to a better DAC, but I think it's only worthwhile if you upgrade your amp and speakers as well.
I'm a regular on the diyaudio forum, and just an occasional visitor here.
IMO many of the comments here are partly correct, but otherwise quite wrong. I'm sure that these comments were offered in good faith, so no one should feel miffed about my comment.
At the outset we should understand that most standalone DACs are effectively 2 devices;
i) a digital interface decoder (USB, coaxial s/pdif, optical s/pdif, HDMI)
ii) a digital-to-analogue converter.
Their ultimate audio performance is the sum of both functions.
Regarding jitter, yes, s/pdif (and optical s/pdif in particular) is inherently more prone to jitter than USB decoders ...
however a well implemented s/pdif interface can still outperform a poorly implemented USB interface!
Regarding bluetooth, there were some earlier implications that using one of the higher standard bluetooth protocols will overcome bluetooth's limitations. This is only partly correct, because datarate and compression-type are only one aspect of bluetooth's problems - another major flaw is that the digital audio output from the bluetooth decoder has very high jitter, so high that most D/A chips cannot reliably lock to it. So the makers of bluetooth decoders include their own onboard DAC, and this DAC is sub-par compared to other dedicated DAC chips.
There are a small number of standalone DACs which go to the trouble of including a bluetooth decoder which is buffered and stabilised so that the better-quality external DAC chip can be used, but these devices are rare.
If you like the convenience and functionality of bluetooth, fine. But if you genuinely want high fidelity, don't use it.
Regarding high-res audio; the current maximum supported samplerate with USB is 384kHz, with s/pdif it's 192kHz. Of course, not all USB or s/pdif hardware will go as high as the maximum.
I have only about 10 albums in my collection which are 192kHz. I don't know of any commercially available recordings at 384kHz.
Can I hear any difference between these recordings compared to conventional 44.1kHz? Generally no! I simply obtain the best technical version of my favourite albums, and maybe one day in the future the technology will evolve so that the difference is audibly obvious ... and then again, maybe not. But I don't overthink it, and I'm unconcerned.
If you don't wish to go to the trouble and expense that I do, I can assure you that you are not (currently) missing out on a particularly special listening experience.
If you do wish to use hi-res audio files on Mac/iTunes, there are some configuration changes necessary, see here -
https://www.macworld.com/article/1160651/how-to-find-and-play-high-resolution-audio-on-the-mac.html
Both Mac and Windows make it difficult to jump between audio files of different samplerates, and keep the audio bit-perfect. On Mac you can use third-party "audio engine" applications to help with this - such as Pure Music, Amarra, or Audirvana.
Phew. That's the technical stuff done.
Now let me give you some practical advice; you want to know if you will hear a (noticeable/significant) difference between your Macbook's internal DAC, and an external standalone DAC ... well I believe that with a sub-$100 DAC, probably not, but if you were to get one of Amir's recommended $100-and-above DACs, then probably yes.
Is this worthwhile for you? Only you can tell. See if you can borrow a Schiit Modi 3, and give it a try.
And since the Modi 3 supports both USB and optical s/pdif input, you can compare the sound quality of each (I think the USB will win).
Bear in mind that your present listening system is entry-level, but half-decent (in my opinion). So the $100 - $200 price range is where you should be looking.
If you want better sound, sure, you can step up to a better DAC, but I think it's only worthwhile if you upgrade your amp and speakers as well.
- Thread Starter
- #34
Thank you for your time and practical recommendations! I have learned a lot from this forum.
- Thread Starter
- #36
Oh, I just spotted your other post; "What to buy for iTunes streaming" where forum member Willem recommend an Apple AirPort Express, and forum member Apesbrain recommended a third-party AirPlay receiver.
Now that I see you might consider using such a device, let me add my endorsement for using a media streamer - this frees your Macbook from being physically tethered to your amp/speakers, and makes it easier to use the Macbook for other tasks. In fact, you could completely free the Macbook from music playback tasks altogether, by running iTunes on some other (less important) computer somewhere else in the house.
In such a scenario you could still use the Macbook as the controller device ... or instead use your smartphone as the controller ... or instead use a tablet computer as the controller.
But just a warning - if you choose to use a media streamer, and you genuinely want high-fidelity audio, then short of buying a high-end $1000 streamer you will still need to use an external DAC.
The Apple AirPort Express does allow DAC connection via optical s/pdif. The most recent model AirPort Express was discontinued in 2016, but is still available for around $100 or so.
Most third-party AirPlay receivers do not have s/pdif output, only analogue (so you get their mediocre D/A conversion) or HDMI. I believe there are HDMI interface adapter cables which will convert the HDMI audio to either s/pdif or USB ... but you would need to investigate this carefully.
Bottom line; if you want to stream hifi audio from iTunes, pay the money and get an AirPort Express.
Now that I see you might consider using such a device, let me add my endorsement for using a media streamer - this frees your Macbook from being physically tethered to your amp/speakers, and makes it easier to use the Macbook for other tasks. In fact, you could completely free the Macbook from music playback tasks altogether, by running iTunes on some other (less important) computer somewhere else in the house.
In such a scenario you could still use the Macbook as the controller device ... or instead use your smartphone as the controller ... or instead use a tablet computer as the controller.
But just a warning - if you choose to use a media streamer, and you genuinely want high-fidelity audio, then short of buying a high-end $1000 streamer you will still need to use an external DAC.
The Apple AirPort Express does allow DAC connection via optical s/pdif. The most recent model AirPort Express was discontinued in 2016, but is still available for around $100 or so.
Most third-party AirPlay receivers do not have s/pdif output, only analogue (so you get their mediocre D/A conversion) or HDMI. I believe there are HDMI interface adapter cables which will convert the HDMI audio to either s/pdif or USB ... but you would need to investigate this carefully.
Bottom line; if you want to stream hifi audio from iTunes, pay the money and get an AirPort Express.
Similar threads
