DAC filters?

[olds1959special]

roll off, fast or slow? minimum or linear phase? I'm trying to figure out what works for me. My Dac (SMSL DO100) has 7 filter settings. Right now I'm trying minimum phase slow roll off. Before that I was using linear phase fast roll off, but I'm trying to get a less fatiguing sound.

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't think it matters.... You may not hear a difference in a blind listening test or you'll probably have to listen very carefully to hear the difference. And if you CAN hear a difference in an ABX test, I'm fairly certain you won't hear a difference with one setting on Monday and a different setting (or a different DAC) on Tuesday. (In a sighted test the difference may be "obvious".

I've never heard a difference or defect with any DAC, including whatever was built into my 1st CD player.

...I was doing some experiments with a soundcard and an oscilloscope once, and the sound card didn't have ANY filtering. I could see a "nice" stair-stepped output! I didn't use that computer for critical listening and it just had some rather-average computer speakers, and I don't claim to have golden ears, but I had never heard anything wrong and I was shocked! But after I thought about it, the harmonics are above the audio range, plus the amplifier in the speakers may be mostly limited to the audible range, and the speakers WILL have limits (mechanical filtering).

Oh... Once I had a different soundcard that made noise when the hard drive was accessed. But I don't blame the "DAC" for the noise getting into the analog-side.

 

[Dunring]

Filter 1 on that is the lowest distortion as shown in the measurements here. Just set it and forget it. The difference is so tiny audibly, just go with the best performing one.

 

[KSTR]

roll off, fast or slow? minimum or linear phase? I'm trying to figure out what works for me. My Dac (SMSL DO100) has 7 filter settings. Right now I'm trying minimum phase slow roll off. Before that I was using linear phase fast roll off, but I'm trying to get a less fatiguing sound.

Well, if you are experiencing constant and severe fatigue, I'd probably look elsewhere than DAC filters.

Anyway, those settings are there for us to play with. The differences are usually very subtle but existent, mainly in form of the very high frequency behavior. The different roll-off and the different types of ringing may certainly be audible for well-trained young ears under rather extreme circumstances.

I've played with filters in my DACs, too. Others have as well. Not that big deal, no game changers. My aged ears can hardly differentiate a filter-less NOS from a steep brickwall, even with that prominent roll-off and imaging of NOS.

 

[antcollinet]

What they said, plus:

Listening fatigue is IMO due to in room frequency response (speaker/room interaction) and has nothing to do with electronic components upstream. For me I associate it with too much energy in the top midrange and treble.

Solve with tone controls, equalisation, or best - room correction with appropriate target curve.

 

[staticV3]

roll off, fast or slow? minimum or linear phase? I'm trying to figure out what works for me. My Dac (SMSL DO100) has 7 filter settings. Right now I'm trying minimum phase slow roll off. Before that I was using linear phase fast roll off, but I'm trying to get a less fatiguing sound.

The DO100 uses an ES9038Q2M DAC chip.

Here's a detailed graph of each filter's frequency response:


Full-res: https://media.discordapp.net/attach...fd441654c41e7681ac86ce0acc65d4622650a74fa1e3&

If you'd like a less fatiguing sound, try the Hybrid Fast Roll-off filter, it should sound the least "sharp".

Filter 1 on that is the lowest distortion as shown in the measurements here.

Only with a 90kHz measurement bandwidth, can you see a difference in THD vs Level between filters.

With 20kHz measurement bandwidth (human hearing), all filters perform the same.

 

[voodooless]

but I'm trying to get a less fatiguing sound.

Look something else than to DACs to solve your problem… room and speakers are usually to blame.

 

[Purité Audio]

You could try turning your loudspeakers ‘out’ so that the tweeters aren’t directly facing you.
Keith

 

[olds1959special]

I prefer minimum phase. It sounds snappier, for lack of a better word. Also, slow roll-off sounds smoother, less sharp, and less fatiguing. I've been happy with minimum phase slow roll-off. I've been trying to understand why. I get fast vs slow roll-off, at least through listening (it's dynamics, right?) and I read that minimum phase means the high and low frequencies reach the listener at the same time, but linear phase is more accurate to the source. Also, with an EQ, minimum phase is colored, and linear is more surgical and analytical. So far, this is how I'm understanding these terms.

 

[olds1959special]

You could try turning your loudspeakers ‘out’ so that the tweeters aren’t directly facing you.
Keith

I did this too, and it helped.

 

[TankTop]

I did this too, and it helped.

Glad that helped.

All the filters are well below -100db so it may be possible to audibly detect a difference in a very quiet room with sensitive IEM’s but that’s even doubtful unless you’re 5 years old

 

[kchap]

I prefer linear phase sharp roll off. but not all are happy with that answer: Do ... loop until bored

 

[olds1959special]

The DO100 uses an ES9038Q2M DAC chip.

Here's a detailed graph of each filter's frequency response:
View attachment 372659

Full-res: https://media.discordapp.net/attach...fd441654c41e7681ac86ce0acc65d4622650a74fa1e3&

If you'd like a less fatiguing sound, try the Hybrid Fast Roll-off filter, it should sound the least "sharp".


Only with a 90kHz measurement bandwidth, can you see a difference in THD vs Level between filters.

With 20kHz measurement bandwidth (human hearing), all filters perform the same.

What filter number is hybrid fast roll off filter?

 

[staticV3]

What filter number is hybrid fast roll off filter?

According to the User Manual, it's FL1.

 

[IAtaman]

Your signature says you are using DT880 600Ohm. If you are experiencing fatigue, change your headphones, or EQ them.

 

[olds1959special]

Your signature says you are using DT880 600Ohm. If you are experiencing fatigue, change your headphones, or EQ them.

View attachment 374914

hmm, I like these headphones with my Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL Mark III tube headphone amp. I sold all my Sennheiser 600/650's a while ago since I prefer these. I think the amp tames them a bit.

 

[IAtaman]

hmm, I like these headphones with my Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL Mark III tube headphone amp. I sold all my Sennheiser 600/650's a while ago since I prefer these. I think the amp tames them a bit.

Sounds plausible, due to the variable impedance of DT880, lows might be boosted by a high output impedanceamp, balancing the peaks in treble. Despite the more natural presentation created by a bass boost however, the peaks in highs will still be there and still will be fatiguing in my experience.

 

[olds1959special]

According to the User Manual, it's FL1.

My manual says "minimum phase" for FL1.

Also, does anyone know what the default filter is and why it was chosen?

 

[staticV3]

My manual says "minimum phase" for FL1.

SMSL are calling it "Fixed minimum phase fast roll-off":

Source: https://www.smsl-audio.com/themes/p...?file=/upload/portal/download/DO100Manual.pdf

The official name from ESS Sabre is "Hybrid fast roll-off".

It's the same filter.

 

[olds1959special]

Oops it’s a D0100 “Pro” which is ES9039Q2M not ES9038Q2M.

The speakers are less fatiguing after reducing the tweeter contour control though.