DAC Choices

[Womaz]

It will be a eye opener for sure and give you some resolve for later purchases.

I think I know now that before any future purchases this forum will be the first place I visit .

 

[sprellemannen]

The Niimbus is very powerful, its build quality is great, it has a 5 year warranty, Lake People/Violectric's support seems to be great (my experience) and their products seem to very seldom be faulty: Niimbus is a keeper. Just my opinion...

 

[Womaz]

The Niimbus is very powerful, its build quality is great, it has a 5 year warranty, Lake People/Violectric's support seems to be great and their products seems to very seldom be faulty: Niimbus is a keeper. Just my opinion...

It’s definitely a keeper.
I am 59 and I have only ever owned 5 headphone amps and it is streets ahead of the others. So yes I tend to buy my gear and then just enjoy the music. I am not one who looks for continual improvement .
I have went down that route with women and it’s expensive and emotionally draining
I actually feel the Abyss will stay for years too . I have kept the Hifiman and use them occasionaly, but when I go back to the Abyss it always has the wow factor for me

 

[radix]

I went with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS for it's built-in EQ. In my setup, I have several different laptops and computers that I rotate between (personal & work) and two headphones plus speakers, depending on conditions and noise. I also switch between digital sources. So, having the EQ in the DAC is a big win for me and I can easily switch between outputs and with the remote select the appropriate EQ. The loudness comp is nice too.

If you have a simpler setup and can do the EQ in software, then there's lots of less expensive options.

 

[Womaz]

I went with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS for it's built-in EQ. In my setup, I have several different laptops and computers that I rotate between (personal & work) and two headphones plus speakers, depending on conditions and noise. I also switch between digital sources. So, having the EQ in the DAC is a big win for me and I can easily switch between outputs and with the remote select the appropriate EQ. The loudness comp is nice too.

If you have a simpler setup and can do the EQ in software, then there's lots of less expensive options.

Yeah I use ROON and I do use the EQ for my main room. I dont use it for the headphone set up though as I love the sound.

 

[Womaz]

A great responce to my post so thank you to all who contributed, even to those who clearly have not read the first post I am sure I do that myself sometimes.

I guess judging hifi by measurements is something that I have never considered, but I wish i had earlier. As I am up in Newcastle I didmt have a lot of choice and auditioning gear is difficult so I have always read magazines and visited forums. This has give me a shortlist and then I have tried to demo, however I soon realised that a home demo was the only way to go, especially for speakers.

My old listening room in my old apartment was brilliant abd the Sonus Faber speakers were great. In my new house my new room is smaller and truth is the speakers are probably a bit too much for it. When I get round to doing the room up I will look into room treatments etc. However this issue led me to listening to my headphones more.
When your room is a tad disappointing then this was a pleasant surprise as the HP set up sounded so good. This led to me replacing all of my HP gear over the last 18 months as I was using it a lot more. Anyway I am waffling again.

So just to reiterate I am more than happy with the Qutest, it is just curiosity that has taken hold of me.
When I was looking to replace my HP gear last year I got the Abyss 1266TCs, then I had to decide on an amp. I opted for the Niimbus.
At the time ideally I wanted an all in one really, like an amp and DAC combined.
I am sure that if I had visited this forum first thats what I would have ended up with, however i didnt . I looked at other forums and listened to advice and ended up going down the separate DAC route.
Even then I really wanted a streamer as I was using my Iphone as the source , streaming Tidal. As a Roon subscriber I was keen to use that in my HP set up. Again I was keen to have an all in one solution , ie a DAC/streamer combined. Again after visiting forums I decided to go separates.

So this forum has me intrigued. Last year I was going to go for the Matrix Mini Pro 3 as a DAC streamer as I already had made the amp decision. As you now know I decided to go with the Qutest and the SA Link 2 streamer. I have looked at the SINAD scores for the Qutest and the Matrix and the scores are 114 and 112.5 respectively.
So according to this forum that is such a small difference that my ears would not hear a difference. So this has me intrigued as I could have done what I really wanted to do.

Having said that I am very pleased with my set up. I just want to make that clear. It sounds sublime to me.

I guess I am just wanting to prove things for myself I guess. So I am considering buying one of the streamers I mentioned in the first post to see if I can hear any difference. That was the point of my post.
It would not replace the Qutest and the new DAC would be an experiment only and sold on quite quickly I would imagine.

I do admit though it woukd cost me a few quid loss on the resale value and you folks on here are convinced that I would not hear a difference. You may have convinced me amd I may not need to try it out.........but my nature is I want to prove it

Thanks for all the posts so far, I have been given a lot of food fro thought and my apologies for the length of this post

 

[Mart68]

No no no no
I am not really looking to make a difference . Probably the opposite . Looking to,cement the view that a DAC makes little difference to the sound

I did exactly what you are suggesting, bought a £140 DAC to see if there was a difference between that and the £500 DAC I already had. After swapping between them a number of times I could not discern any difference whatsoever. When I gave up doing the comparisons the £140 DAC was in the system and has stayed there and I've got on with my life (such as it is).

Try it for yourself if you have to but I can pretty much guarantee the outcome.

 

[Womaz]

Ok after re reading my own thread here it appears there is a cheaper option. The JDS Labs Atom DAC.
This is only £149 in the UK so I think this is maybe worth the experiment. When stock arrices that is as its currently unavailable.

One thing, At present I use XLR into the Niimbus, the Atom only has RCA.........does this make any difference at all?

 

[antcollinet]

Ok after re reading my own thread here it appears there is a cheaper option. The JDS Labs Atom DAC.
This is only £149 in the UK so I think this is maybe worth the experiment. When stock arrices that is as its currently unavailable.

One thing, At present I use XLR into the Niimbus, the Atom only has RCA.........does this make any difference at all?

Normally only if you have a ground loop in your system. Even then not a big probem if you keep the interconnects very short.

 

[Womaz]

After a few days of mulling this over I have come to the conclusion that I do not really need to do this test as I am more or less convinced I will not hear a difference
However
As I stated above originally I was keen to get a one box streamer/DAC to use with my Niimbus amp.
I could possibly sell my streamer and the qutest and still get a decent price for them.
I am just considering this at present . The matrix product’s are always a good place to start but does anyone else have any other suggestions …..I am in the UK so would need to be easy to purchase here.
I will of course browse the reviews on this site too.

So is It just the DAC where the measurements are pretty much the indicator of a good DAC?
For example in Amps surely there is a lot more to it than that ?

 

[Purité Audio]

Nope.
Keith

 

[antcollinet]

After a few days of mulling this over I have come to the conclusion that I do not really need to do this test as I am more or less convinced I will not hear a difference
However
As I stated above originally I was keen to get a one box streamer/DAC to use with my Niimbus amp.
I could possibly sell my streamer and the qutest and still get a decent price for them.
I am just considering this at present . The matrix product’s are always a good place to start but does anyone else have any other suggestions …..I am in the UK so would need to be easy to purchase here.
I will of course browse the reviews on this site too.

So is It just the DAC where the measurements are pretty much the indicator of a good DAC?
For example in Amps surely there is a lot more to it than that ?

Regarding streamers, if it were me I'd be looking at the low cost end connecting digitally to an amp or dac. I'd be looking at the Wiim and the Allo Boss2 - probably leaning towards the Wiim (or the soon to be released pro version). Both of these devices also work fine with the analogue outputs - especially the Allo Boss2 which measured very well here. At the end of the day a streamer only has to transfer a music file from the source to your amplifier.


Regarding measurements and amplifiers:

I think only in transducers (speakers/headphones) are there significant other elements over the measurements. And that is due to the massive complexity of how speakers interact with rooms and ears.

Pretty much all electronics (including amplifiers) are about the output having close fidelity to the input. In other words, we want them to change the sound as little as possible. That is fairly simply** determined using the standard measurements Amir carries out.

The main important feature of an amp over a dac is power output. More always being better, other things being equal. This is also measured by Amir.

Beyond the measurements done by Amir, then we also need to be considering the features we want, and our perception of other things such as reliability, and after sales support.



**if the stuff done by Amir in his $200K equivalent lab can be considered simple***

*** the results are at least simple to understand.

 

[Womaz]

Regarding streamers, if it were me I'd be looking at the low cost end connecting digitally to an amp or dac. I'd be looking at the Wiim and the Allo Boss2 - probably leaning towards the Wiim (or the soon to be released pro version)


Regarding measurements and amplifiers:

I think only in transducers (speakers/headphones) are there significant other elements over the measurements. And that is due to the massive complexity of how speakers interact with rooms and ears.

Pretty much all electronics (including amplifiers) are about the output having close fidelity to the input. In other words, we want them to change the sound as little as possible. That is fairly simply** determined using the standard measurements Amir carries out.

The main important feature of an amp over a dac is power output. More always being better, other things being equal. This is also measured by Amir.

Beyond the measurements done by Amir, then we also need to be considering the features we want, and our perception of other things such as reliability, and after sales support.



**if the stuff done by Amir in his $200K equivalent lab can be considered simple***

*** the results are at least simple to understand.

Thanks for the reply.
I already have the Stack Audio streamer. This replaced a Raspberry Pi streamer I had. I am not really looking to change the streamer unless it was to replace 2 boxes with 1 , if that makes sense. Like a streamer/dac as this was initially what I wanted to do. I nearly opted for one of the Matrix products last year.

The Amp situation was more curiousity . I am just intrigued to think that I spent 6K on my Devialet amp (MY MAIN RIG) and maybe the same performance could have been gained from spending much less. Again dont get me wrong the Devialet sounds great to me so I am not ubhappy with it.
This forum just really makes you think about choices you have made in the past and how I may approach things a lot differently in the future.

I agree with the speakers or headphones, they are what makes the real difference. Although much to my detriment I have been amazed at what a difference the room can make in a speaker set up.

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks for the reply.
I already have the Stack Audio streamer. This replaced a Raspberry Pi streamer I had. I am not really looking to change the streamer unless it was to replace 2 boxes with 1 , if that makes sense. Like a streamer/dac as this was initially what I wanted to do. I nearly opted for one of the Matrix products last year.

The Amp situation was more curiousity . I am just intrigued to think that I spent 6K on my Devialet amp (MY MAIN RIG) and maybe the same performance could have been gained from spending much less. Again dont get me wrong the Devialet sounds great to me so I am not ubhappy with it.
This forum just really makes you think about choices you have made in the past and how I may approach things a lot differently in the future.

I agree with the speakers or headphones, they are what makes the real difference. Although much to my detriment I have been amazed at what a difference the room can make in a speaker set up.

Sorry - I made an edit (looks like after you pressed reply) that the streamers I mentioned have average or excellent analogue ouput (the allo boss2 measured really well) so could be used as single box solutions. We'll have to wait to see how the wiim pro performs.

 

[Womaz]

Sorry - I made an edit (looks like after you pressed reply) that the streamers I mentioned have average or excellent analogue ouput (the allo boss2 measured really well) so could be used as single box solutions. We'll have to wait to see how the wiim pro performs.

Do these include a DAC? I thought they were just streamers.
Like I say if I was to make changes then it would be for the benefit of having a one box solution . So the SA Link 2 and the Qutest being replaced with a Streamer/Dac solution.
I ask as this is what I originally intended to do last year

 

[antcollinet]

Do these include a DAC? I thought they were just streamers.
Like I say if I was to make changes then it would be for the benefit of having a one box solution . So the SA Link 2 and the Qutest being replaced with a Streamer/Dac solution.
I ask as this is what I originally intended to do last year

Both have analogue outputs so yes, include a Dac. The Wiim is "adequate". Allo Boss2 is good as measured here. Neither have balanced outputs if that is important to you.

 

[BDWoody]

So is It just the DAC where the measurements are pretty much the indicator of a good DAC?
For example in Amps surely there is a lot more to it than that ?

Solid state electronics can be very accurately characterized through the suite of measurements typically done.

For any of these boxes, they key is understanding what metrics are important for your use case. For an amp, I want flat frequency response, nice high input impedance, low output impedance, and enough power to handle what I throw at it, based on the speakers I have or plan to get.

My standalone amps are mostly older. I have an Adcom 545ii, a Krell, a Bryston a Devialet and likely a couple more I've forgotten about. I have not done any controlled comparisons, but I've never thought 'this would sound better on the Krell.'

 

[Womaz]

Solid state electronics can be very accurately characterized through the suite of measurements typically done.

For any of these boxes, they key is understanding what metrics are important for your use case. For an amp, I want flat frequency response, nice high input impedance, low output impedance, and enough power to handle what I throw at it, based on the speakers I have or plan to get.

My standalone amps are mostly older. I have an Adcom 545ii, a Krell, a Bryston a Devialet and likely a couple more I've forgotten about. I have not done any controlled comparisons, but I've never thought 'this would sound better on the Krell.'

You see for me from a non scientific background I dont really understand any of that if I am honest.
I just want it to be powerful enough to be able to drive my SF speakers efficiently I guess and sound good. I have always knew that the speaker choice was the most important, but yes I thought amps were probably next in importance. A year or so of visiting this forum I am starting to doubt that I guess.
Again do not get me wrong I am more than happy with the Devialet, but I guess about the longevity of it as I dont even have an SD card slot in my lap top any more so cant update the firmware. Again it may not be an issue to me as I think the last time I updated was about 3 years ago as I did not upgrade to the Expert Pro.

Like you I am not continually seeking to improve my system or wonder if this amp sounds better than that amp. Once I spend the cash, and for me some of this was significamt amount of cash, well I stick with it. I think the Devialet is about 7 years old. I know it did not measure well in this forum but it sounds bloody good to me.

I dont pretend to understand the measurements done on this forum , I just think it will be my starting point in the future if I do decide to change my gear.
I admit I find it hard to believe say a £400 amp will sound as good as the Devialet, but yeah maybe thats because I have read hifi magazines and visited hifi forums for years and years.

The subject has me intrigued though.

 

[BDWoody]

Devialet is about 7 years old. I know it did not measure well in this forum but it sounds bloody good to me.

Actually, it measured very well, once it was able to get through the measurement process. On the first run, it just died. Devialet got it back, fixed it, and sent it back. I remember it well. It was mine.

I think the remote is enough to make me keep it forever. Plus, the phono stage is truly excellent...

Doesn't sound any different to me than any of my other amps, but it's a slick, sexy box and I enjoy it in my office.

 

[Womaz]

Actually, it measured very well, once it was able to get through the measurement process. On the first run, it just died. Devialet got it back, fixed it, and sent it back. I remember it well. It was mine.

View attachment 235559

I think the remote is enough to make me keep it forever. Plus, the phono stage is truly excellent...

Doesn't sound any different to me than any of my other amps, but it's a slick, sexy box and I enjoy it in my office.

Ah I will have too look at the review again.
Yeah I love they way it just sits in a small space under my unit. Its neat. Thanks for the posts.