DAC Below $700, which to buy (Made a Shortlist)

[Jimster480]

Hello,

Looking to buy a DAC, and will be primarily used as for a PC and FLAC over it, I will be using headphones Sennheiser HD6xx by drop until I get used HD800 or S, I have ordered used schiit vallhala 2 and looking for the DAC to pair it with.
My Shortlist at the moment is:

GUSTARD X18 ~ 600$​

SMSL RAWPro-DAC 1 ~ 600$​

TOPPING E70 VELVET ~ 300$​

TOPPING D70 Pro SABRE ~ $500$​

SMSL SU-9 Pro ~ 430$​

TOPPING D90 III Sabre ~ 700$​

TOPPING D50 III ~ 200$​

​

I am leaning little bit toward Gustard or Cheaper version like e70 or d50, but if some other one is better that me lenience, please advise and why, any advice is much appreciated, or if there is something that is not on the list and it is as good or better for similar price. ​

Thanks. ​

Why did you purchase an Amp with horrible performance? Any DAC down to $70 will perform fine on that Amp....

Amazon.com

That is all you would need.

I notice reading the whole thread that you bought an E70 Velvet, I suggest you buy the Amp that goes with it as well and try that out. Instead of the Amp that you purchased because the performance of that Amp is horrid.

 

[dr0ss]

the performance of that Amp is horrid.

But in real life it sounds fine (and it looks good). The reality is that our ears are the weakest link in the sound chain, completely dwarfing any performance issues in a modern amp. And as others have mentioned, DACs seem to be a solved problem, even more than amps. Headphones and speakers are another matter, these should best be auditioned before purchase, or purchased with the option of return.

 

[Jimster480]

But in real life it sounds fine (and it looks good). The reality is that our ears are the weakest link in the sound chain, completely dwarfing any performance issues in a modern amp. And as others have mentioned, DACs seem to be a solved problem, even more than amps. Headphones and speakers are another matter, these should best be auditioned before purchase, or purchased with the option of return.

This is completely incorrect. An amp like this will not "sound fine". I had a few Schiit amps and DAC's and they always sounded sharp and lacked microdetails.

 

[dr0ss]

This is completely incorrect. An amp like this will not "sound fine". I had a few Schiit amps and DAC's and they always sounded sharp and lacked microdetails.

I'm not golden-eared enough to hear microdetails, whatever those are. This amp has been reviewed by amirm and deemed fine with high-impedance headphones. I wouldn't have recommended it myself, but as the OP already owns it I don't see any reason for him to buy another. Many people are very pleased with this amp.

 

[Jimster480]

I'm not golden-eared enough to hear microdetails, whatever those are. This amp has been reviewed by amirm and deemed fine with high-impedance headphones. I wouldn't have recommended it myself, but as the OP already owns it I don't see any reason for him to buy another. Many people are very pleased with this amp.

It is more about pitch and accuracy then just microdetails. Personally I would sell it and get something else (that is what I did with my Schiit equipment).

 

[Beave]

It is more about pitch and accuracy then just microdetails. Personally I would sell it and get something else (that is what I did with my Schiit equipment).

Pitch and accuracy .... from a DAC or amp?

 

[audiofromaustria]

I'm a little undecided about what to do, please see here ->>

Looking for advice: an upgrade from Topping D50 III (under €600)

Again, no please... :confused: The so called "solid measurements" are useful but i don't think they are enough to tell the entire "story". Yeah, sure, THD, SNR superb but, FR apart, correct me if i'm wrong (i'm sincere), we are measuring only at a specific frequency value and not anything else...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[JeremyFife]

I'm a little undecided about what to do, please see here ->>

Looking for advice: an upgrade from Topping D50 III (under €600)

Again, no please... :confused: The so called "solid measurements" are useful but i don't think they are enough to tell the entire "story". Yeah, sure, THD, SNR superb but, FR apart, correct me if i'm wrong (i'm sincere), we are measuring only at a specific frequency value and not anything else...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Don't overthink DACs. Make sure you get the features you need and everything else would probably be fine. The post you link talks about an upgrade from the Topping D50III ... you are unlikely to find anything better in terms of sound quality, but there may be features or aesthetics that you prefer.

Perhaps not helpful but that's modern electronics

 

[Jimster480]

Pitch and accuracy .... from a DAC or amp?

Amp, unless you find a really poor DAC; you won't have issues with pitch or accuracy today.

 

[Beave]

Amp, unless you find a really poor DAC; you won't have issues with pitch or accuracy today.

OK. so my question becomes:

Pitch and accuracy ... from an amp?!?! How in the world does an amp affect pitch?

 

[Jimster480]

OK. so my question becomes:

Pitch and accuracy ... from an amp?!?! How in the world does an amp affect pitch?

Through distortion and improper design.
For example I had a Schiit Magni3 and it was very sharp, all the high frequency sounds were not accurate.

 

[HalSF]

Through distortion and improper design.
For example I had a Schiit Magni3 and it was very sharp, all the high frequency sounds were not accurate.

“Both Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 are recommended for budget friendly choices in headphone amplifiers.”

Review and Measurements of Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 Headphone Amps

This is a review and detailed measurements and comparison of Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 headphone amplifiers. I own both units and their accompanying DACs (Topping D30 and Schiit Modi 2). The review will be mostly covering the amplifiers but at the end, I will provide a snapshot comparison...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Maybe you have measurements to support these odd claims about faulty pitch and distortion?

Otherwise recall that the foundational value of this site is to avoid the error-prone assertion of overconfident ad-hoc subjective pronouncements about measurable performance.

 

[Jimster480]

“Both Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 are recommended for budget friendly choices in headphone amplifiers.”

Review and Measurements of Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 Headphone Amps

This is a review and detailed measurements and comparison of Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 headphone amplifiers. I own both units and their accompanying DACs (Topping D30 and Schiit Modi 2). The review will be mostly covering the amplifiers but at the end, I will provide a snapshot comparison...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Maybe you have measurements to support these odd claims about faulty pitch and distortion?

Otherwise recall that the foundational value of this site is to avoid the error-prone assertion of overconfident ad-hoc subjective pronouncements about measurable performance.

I'm the one who sent the magni 3 here because it sounded so bad.
I believe it had some issues with grounding and such that was found out later.

 

[HalSF]

I'm the one who sent the magni 3 here because it sounded so bad.
I believe it had some issues with grounding and such that was found out later.

Thanks for replying. But you seem to be implicitly criticizing for unknown reasons the basis for Amir’s recommendation of the Magi 3 you sent him. What did he miss or get wrong that substantiates your claim about the Magni’s “horrible performance”?

 

[Scrivs]

It is more about pitch and accuracy then just microdetails. Personally I would sell it and get something else (that is what I did with my Schiit equipment).

Uh huh

 

[Jimster480]

Thanks for replying. But you seem to be implicitly criticizing for unknown reasons the basis for Amir’s recommendation of the Magi 3 you sent him. What did he miss or get wrong that substantiates your claim about the Magni’s “horrible performance”?

Well there are other things which can be measured which we haven't yet developed tests for. Originally when I sent the Modi Multibit in; it did "fine" in the original test. The linearity test was a test we developed (along with the Multi-Tone test) as he was looking for what I explained the problem was. Amir has been doing great work here, but he hasn't exactly had time to develop many new tests to explore further.
Everything that happens can be measured, but it depends on IF it is measured.

 

[HalSF]

Well there are other things which can be measured which we haven't yet developed tests for. Originally when I sent the Modi Multibit in; it did "fine" in the original test. The linearity test was a test we developed (along with the Multi-Tone test) as he was looking for what I explained the problem was. Amir has been doing great work here, but he hasn't exactly had time to develop many new tests to explore further.
Everything that happens can be measured, but it depends on IF it is measured.

Thanks again. I thought this might be where you were heading, which for me ends up in Hitchens’s Razor territory.

 

[Jimster480]

Thanks again. I thought this might be where you were heading, which for me ends up in Hitchens’s Razor territory.

Yes, but this is also why the world has very little knowledge and overall companies scam left and right. The companies have the hardware to test these technical claims and can cut corners, knowing that consumers cannot test it or they are simply lazy / hire contractors for low prices. Everything turns back to profit.
Thankfully with the proliferation of Youtube; there are finally some youtubers who have hardware to test claims made by companies and they are making a business out of it. Just like what happens in the PC part world and even in the motor oil world.
Then people have different experiences with products, and instead of this collection of experiences being valued and ultimately explored; most people simply discard others experiences and defer their trust to a manufacturer which has direct financial incentive to lie to you.
The world of reviewing even has become so complicated that reviewers are manipulated by manufacturers, even to the point that some have been sued or banned for doing such reviews. I was banned from Amazon Vine after being top 100 in the world because I was devising real tests to put products through. I was actually using products in the most objective ways I could and reporting results.
Project Farm does similar things to some of the testing that I was doing, but he is totally independent so he can afford to do that testing. Manufacturers didn't like anything close to that when they were sending items in to the Amazon review program (unless of course their product does really well).

In the case of this Magni3; you can choose to discard what I have said. I just encourage you to purchase the products (second hand, so you don't give money to dbag schiit) and test their trash side by side with other actually competently designed products. Then you can have your own non-provable anecdotal experience that matches mine. Unless of course you have an additional $28k sitting around for a Audio Precision analyzer, and you can manage to build a test that shows what happens with that amp.