DAC audible differences are finally proven with ABX?

[Josh83]

Hey welcome to planet Earth. Demanding a payment to your favorite charity on top of getting fully reimbursed for a possibly defective device is not by any measure a 'genuine attempt.'

Nobody, I think, believes someone’s required to sell their possessions at cost simply because another person asks. If the sticking point is the specific charity, I’m open to a mutually agreeable one.

@amirm, can you please give me a yes or no answer to my offer of selling you the box for what I paid for it (in money or the CD box set), plus the charitable donation? I’ll provide you with the receipts showing exactly what I paid. The total will be in the $1,400-something range. If you’d prefer the CD box route, so that no money changes hands, I’ll even donate the difference to charity myself, since the CD box costs a bit more than what I paid for the ABXer.

 

[Mort]

Nobody wants the equipment you used to cheat.

 

[Leporello]

Nobody wants the equipment you used to cheat.

I do no think there is any reason to believe he cheated.

 

[Salt]

Nobody wants the equipment you used to cheat.

Harsh reply.

 

[welwynnick]

Nobody wants the equipment you used to cheat.

Mort, I used to have a high regard for you.

 

[AndyBell]

Nobody, I think, believes someone’s required to sell their possessions at cost simply because another person asks. If the sticking point is the specific charity, I’m open to a mutually agreeable one.

@amirm, can you please give me a yes or no answer to my offer of selling you the box for what I paid for it (in money or the CD box set), plus the charitable donation? I’ll provide you with the receipts showing exactly what I paid. The total will be in the $1,400-something range. If you’d prefer the CD box route, so that no money changes hands, I’ll even donate the difference to charity myself, since the CD box costs a bit more than what I paid for the ABXer.

Josh

I do not understand why you are not eager, indeed not begging, @amirm to ratify your results.

Your test results are virtually unique (if not unique) - an almost perfect score comparing units that previous scientific measurements suggest have zero audible differences.

Audiophiles have been saying for decades that they CAN hear differences and now you have a chance to settle it once and for all.

In your shoes I’d have had my results verified before publishing them, just in case something was amiss in my method or setup.

But you published them. So why not take the chance to end this debate forever by having the unit tested to confirm its accuracy, and repeat your test in a properly supervised, recorded, witnessed environment?

 

[amirm]

Nobody, I think, believes someone’s required to sell their possessions at cost simply because another person asks.

And nobody has asked on that basis.

You have post the results of a test as to gather some level of credibility for yourself as a public figure (and/or get paid by AS for an article?). The results of your tests are in question. A person believing in their work would want it verified beyond any reasonable doubt as to strengthen the conclusions. The biggest doubt by far is that the comparator which may have placed an imprint on the inputs as to allow such easy discrimination. That doubt is now lingering on your test results and your skill and knowledge to run such tests. Resolving that must have value in your eyes. If it does not, or worse yet, you try to profit from it, then it says to me at least that the work is not credible.

If the sticking point is the specific charity, I’m open to a mutually agreeable one.

I don't know why you keep looking at me as a piggy bank. I am willing to put my time in for free. And pay $250 on top of that. I am not here to write a $2,500 check for the privilege of figuring out what you have tested. I am also not motivated when someone goes from wanting all the money in the world, then saying he would trade for gear, to then $3000 DAC plus $600 plus shipping, to now $1300 or whatever for the box and forced donation or similar amount to a charity.

No deal can happen as long as your priority is money above all, and mine is to advance the membership's knowledge in this regard. I have tried to bridge the gap but you are extremely unreasonable and continue to be so.

Remember, we have another owner with the same box who has promised to measure his. And members here are building a far higher performance one which will shrink the value of yours to near zero.

 

[Josh83]

I don't know why you keep looking at me as a piggy bank. I am willing to put my time in for free. And pay $250 on top of that. I am not here to write a $2,500 check for the privilege of figuring out what you have tested. I am also not motivated when someone goes from wanting all the money in the world, then saying he would trade for gear, to then $3000 DAC plus $600 plus shipping, to now $1300 or whatever for the box and forced donation or similar amount to a charity.

No deal can happen as long as your priority is money above all, and mine is to advance the membership's knowledge in this regard. I have tried to bridge the gap but you are extremely unreasonable and continue to be so.

I’m assuming this is a “no”?

As noted above, my offer to you is specifically designed to ensure I don’t profit from this. So I don’t see how that’s my being “concerned about money above all” or being “unreasonable.” I honestly thought my offer would be quickly accepted. You’d get the box, a charity would benefit, and I wouldn’t make anything off of it.

If you change your mind, my offer stands. Just DM me.

 

[pablolie]

I find this puzzling. I’d never presume to demand that another reviewer send me their gear...

The vast majority of testing gear is on loan. This is an openly dishonest comment, sorry. And if you're that unfamiliar with the concept, I trust the accuracy of the test even less.
Nobody "demanded" anything. It was you that refused peer review, which invalidates anything you published. And if you value your time so much, why spend time here repeating the same platitudes rather than spending all of 20 minutes at a UPS location... Your credibility keeps diminishing with every post, sorry to say.

 

[Talisman]

Many, many pages ago, I speculated that if he were a troll, he would have fully achieved his goal, but I stated that I didn't believe him to be a troll.
After the latest ridiculous discussions, I've changed my mind. I believe he's a form of troll.
He has no time, he claims, for trivial measurements, and systematically avoids responding to those who ask for measurements, instead wasting time responding point-for-point about his bizarre request for money.
Please, people, let this ridiculous thread die.

 

[Mort]

Harsh reply.

Fair enough. I guess I'm frustrated seeing a well intentioned community be played with and disrespected.

Plus I'm not wrong.

 

[oldsysop]

Please, people, let this ridiculous thread die.

I find it very interesting

 

[emmodad]

I am offering it to you where I will (quite literally) not make even a single buck, and it will benefit a worthy char

I find this puzzling. I’d never presume to demand that another reviewer send me their gear, let alone travel to me. As I’ve said, I value my time well above money, so flying out to test at someone else’s site isn’t something I’m going to do.

On the donation: I wouldn’t sell the box for what I paid for it, full stop. The donation is what makes selling at cost worth it to me — without it, I’d rather just keep the box, as I’ve said from the beginning.

ja, but the "donation" kicker hasn't been there from the beginning....

 

[emmodad]

Nobody’s obligated to resell their possessions at cost just because someone asks. I made clear from the beginning that I wouldn’t loan it out but might sell it for “an offer I can’t refuse.” That was framed as my trying to profit from the situation, so I’ve responded by proposing that any profits go to charity. That’s a genuine attempt to address the objection, not a bad faith offer. If @amirm accepts, I’ll follow through.

and Sandy Denny could arise from the grave for your pleasure...

 

[Archimago]

Since Josh is not supplying recordings, is there someone here who would record a few dacs (use sharp linear filters) with a good ADC at 96KHz so we can just how small the differences are? Or point me towards existing files like these. I can't find anything like that; the ones I can find online are 44.1K. I would do it myself but I am hoping for comparison of better DACs than I have.

FYI, done for years now. See the AMPT post and subsequent DAC recordings over the years like: this, this among others.

 

[pjug]

FYI, done for years now. See the AMPT post and subsequent DAC recordings over the years like: this, this among others over the years.

Thank you. The ADC is the same for all of them?
edit: Wait, the test track is 44.1KHz, right? I think I wasn't clear in asking, but I wanted 2X sample rate so that differences in the DAC filters would be less an effect. Trying to take the same approach as Josh.

 

[MAB]

FYI, done for years now. See the AMPT post and subsequent DAC recordings over the years like: this, this among others.

I appreciate how you have gone out of your way to leave all of the evidence for the rest of us to verify for ourselves. Over the years, and not just these few examples. Including great instructional posts on how to perform and interpret measurements. Thank you.

 

[welwynnick]

Fair enough. I guess I'm frustrated seeing a well intentioned community be played with and disrespected.

It's only a hobby, but you'd think there was much more at stake. The defences that have gone up against the poisoned words of the infidel (not even in this realm) are what you'd expect from an evil attack on liberty and democracy, an affront to everything that everyone holds dear, an heretical challenge to the words of the almighty: "Thou shalt not listen with thine eyes", "CD is perfect sound forever", "The day of ABX judgement is nigh", "All good DACs sound alike", and for their sins "Audiophools shall burn in inky black darkness". The temerity of the infidel must be fought at all costs, so his blasphemous words cannot poison our untainted ears. Go forth and do battle with a thousand sharp posts, so that the faith shall be preserved. That sort of thing.

The only problem is, if he's right, it would actually be advancing science, not defeating it.

 

[NTK]

The only problem is, if he's right, it would actually be advancing science, not defeating it.

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.pdf

 

[amirm]

I’m assuming this is a “no”?

As noted above, my offer to you is specifically designed to ensure I don’t profit from this. So I don’t see how that’s my being “concerned about money above all” or being “unreasonable.” I honestly thought my offer would be quickly accepted. You’d get the box, a charity would benefit, and I wouldn’t make anything off of it.

If you change your mind, my offer stands. Just DM me.

There is no DM coming from me as I told you in private when you asked for nearly $4000. The benefit of doing all of this without any financial goal or business obligation is that I don't have to crawl on the ground to make a transaction that makes my skin crawl.

But hey, if we are leaving each other with an offer, should you ever put money aside and show genuine interest in understanding the device that enabled you to do this test, I am here to measure and analyze it for free. There will be no money changing hands, only honorable intentions.

I suggest not waiting long though as the members here are running at speed of light to build a better version of it at much lower cost than what you are offering. Pretty soon you will have to donate to a charity to sell the box...