I need to correct my previous test finding. It was done with the Window media player. After installing Foobar 2000 (most recent version) the sound was more clear for the two files. And I am sorry, the sound was now for me identical. So it was probably the media player doing the difference? Since I cannot hear really a difference then my hearing is not good enough anymore. Sad to realize this. Who did succeed this test?
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DAC audible differences are finally proven with ABX?
- Thread starter Leporello
- Start date
It should not be a media player, though it is good to use ASIO. Both files have the same format, 96kHz/24bit wav. To me, only the valid ABX result is important, either negative or positive. Though I had an impression of a slight difference in a sighted test, it was not confirmed in the ABX, my results are random. And, to obtain statistically valid result, 10 trials is not enough. It should be 16 or more. Or, if 10 trials, then at least two runs of such test, and no cherry picking.
Who did succeed? Please check the previous page, there is a 9/10 result. It is probably OK, but should be repeated to get statistically valid result.
Well and good, but if the result was again positive, which would again be extraordinary, this would not tell you *why* it was obtained, which is what scientists would like to know: what was the actual difference being heard?
AndyBell
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All this suggests to me that a solo listener doing such a test will not produce a satisfactory result.
In a controlled setting with the listener only comparing the audio, a facilitator monitoring and recording the results, and a conductor doing with switching and being the only person knowing which DAC was which and when identical DACs were being compared, then maybe we’d get a result that stands up to scrutiny.
I’d also video each test session.
The listener should also write down what they thought was different about each pair of soundbites, if anything.
then we’d have
1) A verified, ratified test
2) recordings of what was heard
3) descriptions of what was heard and why the listener thought they were different (or if there’s no difference)
Having the control of comparing identical DACs would expose either flaws in the test rig, or in the listener.
This would take time, effort, and people to do.
In a controlled setting with the listener only comparing the audio, a facilitator monitoring and recording the results, and a conductor doing with switching and being the only person knowing which DAC was which and when identical DACs were being compared, then maybe we’d get a result that stands up to scrutiny.
I’d also video each test session.
The listener should also write down what they thought was different about each pair of soundbites, if anything.
then we’d have
1) A verified, ratified test
2) recordings of what was heard
3) descriptions of what was heard and why the listener thought they were different (or if there’s no difference)
Having the control of comparing identical DACs would expose either flaws in the test rig, or in the listener.
This would take time, effort, and people to do.
welwynnick
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So go and do it then.
Or stop complaining when someone else doesn’t do it for you.
For nothing.
Or stop complaining when someone else doesn’t do it for you.
For nothing.
If I may, your previous attempt wasn't a test finding, unless you were testing sighted listening.
Your second test with Foobar is a test finding of the files.
It is entirely possible, even likely that you thought you heard a clear difference where there was no clear difference.
Distortion artifacts are surprisingly hard to hear. Which is the point of the test. Which is why it is so darn important to do these studies with proper controls, including a proctor to ensure that the controls are adequately preventing the test from being false.
I like to think of myself as pretty experienced. But I am not able to overcome sighted bias, it rules us.
AndyBell didn't suggest anything that an actual scientific study design wouldn't.
So if I point out that, eg., there's an accepted industry best way to build a bridge, and note that bridge X wasn't built to that standard, I should personally go out and build one?
Who is this directed at?
When asked, I always tell them that. Which is, once someone has positive results, it will start an investigation by us to see if we can replicate and understand the results. We are trying to do that but with much difficulty due to unique nature of how the test was done with an out of production comparator. I also ask for a video as you mention.
Nice, is the test done with headphones or speakers?
Headphones.
Oh no. Only if you could elaborate what you were concentrated on during listening.
Spot on!!!
I will post a second test with correct polarity. It is the BerryBak BT amp used that inverts the polarity and it had been verified by testing. Let’s see what we get.
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