Dac/Amp suggestion for AKG K-712 Pro

[user1203123]

Hello everyone,

First off let's start by saying that I'm a total neophyte in the audio world.

A friend of mine recently gifted me with a pair of AKG plus a modmic and by doing some research I discovered that I will get benefit from a dac/amp combo, just I'm totally clueless about what to purchase since all the info I found are years old.

My typical use of headphones is mostly gaming on pc/ps4 and listening to various kind of music.

What would be a good solution without spending too much money? (I was thinking that around 200eu would be my budget more or less).

Thanks in advance for your help and forgive me if it's a question that already been asked.

 

[twsecrest]

If you want to take advantage of headphone surround sound, for both the PC and PS4, get something like the Creative Labs G6 USB sound card.
If you really have no need for headphone surround sound, then get a Schiit Modi DAC and Magni headphone amplifier.

 

[PolkFan]

My headphones they are yummy as F

Just got the Modi 3 DAC measures well here
and i got the Magni Heresy 2.4W of power have it on low gain 90% of the time!!!

Bought the cables from schiit too buy it from them directly for quicker shipping avoid amazon right now

 

[Bob-23]

I run the K702 (among others) on an O2 (Objective 2), and that's perfect, no distortion, no noise, plenty of power (Gain 2,5x). JDS Lab's Atom may measure a bit better, but that's beyond audibility. And other than the Atom, the O2 has a solid metal case, not a plastic one, which usually also means better shielding. Muting by relays, what the Atom does, is much better than the muting circuit of the O2 - but cheap relays might be the first components to fail... In case, you're on DIY, the O2 uses through-hole components - it's very easily reparable, if any component is ever failing, Opamps are on a socket.
I'd always prefer a modular system: separate dac and amp.

 

[dunkuk]

The Schiit tuff is pretty expensive over here in Europe, I think its much cheaper in the US. Their heaphone amp that is $99 in the states is about $160 here!

The reviews on this site seem to say the Topping DACs and DAC + Heaphone amps are good. Theres one review where the Schiit has some issues compared to the Topping, its a good idea to look at some of the reviews.

The Fiio K5 Pro has a pretty good DAC and a very good heaphone amp, that could be worth a look. The only issue is the line out isnt amazing but that might not be a problem for you. It looks well made too, has a nice volume pot that moves in 1db steps I think.

 

[PolkFan]

NO topping amps have crazy high output Independence please don't buy them. However they make the best bang for buck dac's! Almost went with the new E30 myself but amazon would have took like 1 month to give it to me lol.

Give me your budget and i can help you.

 

[PolkFan]

Any of these would work i guess the A30 amp did get a yes recommendation from here However don't get it over it having a 10 output Independence get the liquid spark instead if you can.

 

[majingotan]

NO topping amps have crazy high output Independence please don't buy them. However they make the best bang for buck dac's! Almost went with the new E30 myself but amazon would have took like 1 month to give it to me lol.

Give me your budget and i can help you.

Agreed, especially for hard to drive headphones such as the K712. The higher the OI of an amp, the less current the amp can deliver and thus would make the K712 sound lacking in power

 

[maverickronin]

The reviews on this site seem to say the Topping DACs and DAC + Heaphone amps are good. Theres one review where the Schiit has some issues compared to the Topping, its a good idea to look at some of the reviews.

Agreed, especially for hard to drive headphones such as the K712. The higher the OI of an amp, the less current the amp can deliver and thus would make the K712 sound lacking in power

Topping DX3 Pro is a DAC/amp combo with ~1 ohm output impedance which is plenty good.

AFIK all the rest of Topping's current stuff (pending the A90...) is closer to 10 ohms.

 

[PolkFan]

Topping DX3 Pro is a DAC/amp combo with ~1 ohm output impedance which is plenty good.

AFIK all the rest of Topping's current stuff (pending the A90...) is closer to 10 ohms.

Agreed! Why does it have such high output Independence anyways? 10 rating makes it useless for 95% of users. Makes no sense to me such a fantastic manufacture of dac's having this performance on amps.

 

[maverickronin]

Agreed! Why does it have such high output Independence anyways? 10 rating makes it useless for 95% of users. Makes no sense to me such a fantastic manufacture of dac's having this performance on amps.

As far as I remember they pretty much all cheap out and use this one TI output buffer chip with nice low noise and distortion levels plus plenty of power, but which isn't stable without an output resistor.

 

[twsecrest]

Agreed! Why does it have such high output Independence anyways? 10 rating makes it useless for 95% of users. Makes no sense to me such a fantastic manufacture of dac's having this performance on amps.

10-Ohm is not desirable, but I've plugged 32-Ohm headphones into a 10-Ohm output impedance and sound was still decent.
The AKG K712 Pro is 62-Ohm, I would not have a issue with connecting it to a 10-Ohm output impedance headphone jack.

 

[twsecrest]

As far as I remember they pretty much all cheap out and use this one TI output buffer chip with nice low noise and distortion levels plus plenty of power, but which isn't stable without an output resistor.

That chip was used on the older high end sound cards, Asus Xonar Essence series and Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR.

 

[user1203123]

Wow!

First off I want to thank you all for the huge response

I'll try to answer all the questions/suggestions in order:

If you want to take advantage of headphone surround sound, for both the PC and PS4, get something like the Creative Labs G6 USB sound card...

I always played games without surround so I don't really know the answer. I checked Schiit european website but they're both out of stock and not so convenient compared to US prices.

I run the K702 (among others) on an O2 (Objective 2), and that's perfect, no distortion, no noise, plenty of power (Gain 2,5x). JDS Lab's Atom may measure a bit better, but that's beyond audibility. And other than the Atom, the O2 has a solid metal case, not a plastic one, which usually also means better shielding. Muting by relays, what the Atom does, is much better than the muting circuit of the O2 - but cheap relays might be the first components to fail... In case, you're on DIY, the O2 uses through-hole components - it's very easily reparable, if any component is ever failing, Opamps are on a socket.
I'd always prefer a modular system: separate dac and amp.

So all things compared, in your opinion, for my purposes O2 beats JDS Lab's Atom (I have to say I'm no audiophile yet so I maybe can't even understand the changes between the two).
I have no particular reason for choosing a modular system to be honest. I thought would just be easier to move it between my PC and TV/Ps4 as they are in 2 different rooms. Other than that I guess it was more of an aesthetic matter but I don't mind choosing a separate dac and amp if it's worth it.

The reviews on this site seem to say the Topping DACs and DAC + Heaphone amps are good. Theres one review where the Schiit has some issues compared to the Topping, its a good idea to look at some of the reviews.

The Fiio K5 Pro has a pretty good DAC and a very good heaphone amp, that could be worth a look. The only issue is the line out isnt amazing but that might not be a problem for you. It looks well made too, has a nice volume pot that moves in 1db steps I think.

What would be the Topping dac and amp of choice in this case?

Not having an amazing line out on the Fioo K5 pro what would means? sorry if it's a dumb question.

NO topping amps have crazy high output Independence please don't buy them. However they make the best bang for buck dac's! Almost went with the new E30 myself but amazon would have took like 1 month to give it to me lol.

Give me your budget and i can help you.

To be honest I don't really mind waiting some time if the wait it's worth it.
My budget is around 200/250€ but I can increase it a bit if by doing that a good increase in quality/it will last longer.

Topping DX3 Pro is a DAC/amp combo with ~1 ohm output impedance which is plenty good.

AFIK all the rest of Topping's current stuff (pending the A90...) is closer to 10 ohms.

Topping DX3 Pro seems pretty interesting for the price. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[PolkFan]

For a all in one box i have to say get the Topping DX3 Pro for your price range if you want to get 2 units get the E30 DAC by topping and Heresy Amp this really will be a extremely good well measured pair and i don't think anything beats these 2 in measurements for that price range or even for twice the cost.

 

[Bob-23]

I have no particular reason for choosing a modular system to be honest

'All-in-ones' are also 'all-in-one-throw-aways', if one part of the system fails, or if you want to improve your system by, say, getting a better amp only. (And there can be other advantages: If you, for instance, experiment with analog Crossfeed, it has to be put between dac and amp.)
Apart from that: It's the question if you profited at all - soundwise - from an external dac. It could well be that your internal dac is completely sufficient. And with regard to an external amp: Even the power of your internal amp might also be sufficient, and if this the case, there still might be one reason left, that could justify an external amp, namely, getting down output impedance. Many here have pointed out: Output impedance might be problematic, and output impedances of computer line-outs/headphone-outs may, indeed, be relatively high - 'eating-up' part of the power for low-impedance headphones (voltage divider), and elevating frequency-response of the headphones (most often) in the 100Hz-region. But other than e.g. some Sennheisers, AKGs often respond only very 'mildly' to high output impedance - if at all (don't know how it is with the 712). So, even if your pc's output impedance was, say, 50 Ohm, that may be no problem at all for your AKG. (A certain output impedance can, btw, be useful: If you shorten the headphone-out by, say, plugging in the phones only 'half-way', then the amp still sees a load - as if there were still headphones plugged-in - thus protecting the output stage resp. the output-stage's opamp. Many opamps have built-in shortage protection, so that they can stand, at least, short shortages - but an output impedance>0 creates a safety margin.)

 

[maverickronin]

Topping DX3 Pro seems pretty interesting for the price. Thank you for the suggestion!

Actually I missed this before, but it looks like they ruined the DX3 Pro V2 with the same 10 ohm OI of the rest of their amps so I'd give it a pass.

 

[solderdude]

K712 can be driven from 10 Ohm out without any sound degradation.
The impedance is flat enough.
You will get + 0.08dB more midbass and 0.23dB more upper treble.

 

[user1203123]

Actually I missed this before, but it looks like they ruined the DX3 Pro V2 with the same 10 ohm OI of the rest of their amps so I'd give it a pass.

I found that thread as well and I agree with you. On the other hand it seems that the Topping dx7 Pro is a marvelous unit but unfortunately is out of my budget.

At this point I'm heading towards a separate dac/amp also for the reason Bob-23 pointed out.

I wonder if it is possible for me to buy only the amplifier for now considering that I have an Asus Prime x470-Pro with a Realtek S1220A codec.
If so this is what I can find available for purchase in my country. (all prices are inclusive of shipping)

Topping A30 - €110
Schiit Magni Heresy - €143
JDS Labs Atom - €169
JDS Labs O2 - I'm not able to find it anywhere in Europe

Personally, I'm heading towards the Schiit Magni Heresy, what you guys think?

Also I forgot to ask if you have any suggestions about which cables to buy, if i need any.

 

[maverickronin]

Personally, I'm heading towards the Schiit Magni Heresy, what you guys think?

I'd definitely go with the Heresy at those prices.

Also I forgot to ask if you have any suggestions about which cables to buy, if i need any.

You might want to get some short RCA cables for convenience and neatness, but you don't need anything special.