DAC advice

[Katji]

If this was like Reddit / like that is Reddit, I would have downvoted. Just shows / yet another underestimating the psychology. Being "pretty skeptical" does not nullify it.

 

[Raindog123]

1. transparent != harsh (transparent == transparent)
2. (2 != 3) -> (Modi 2 != Modi 3) [eg, here]

 

[watchnerd]

"Transparent" for common quality digital audio usually means it sounds harsh, I think most people call it "digital edge".

Errrr.....

16bit/44.1khz is not inherently harsh.

Yeah, there were some bad mixes and masterings back in the olden days when digital was new and engineers were still applying analog concepts about gain or doing flat transfers of masters that had been EQ'ed for LP or cassette.

But claiming Red Book rates are inherently harsh, especially with modern DACs and modern recordings, lacks empirical evidence.

I know that's the audiophile folkore, but it's just bullshit that confuses cause and effect.

 

[watchnerd]

You deal with this with better speakers. Just get a transparent DAC.

Or better masterings that aren't mis-applying EQ curves meant for analog to a digital medium.

 

[watchnerd]

If this was like Reddit / like that is Reddit, I would have downvoted. Just shows / yet another underestimating the psychology. Being "pretty skeptical" does not nullify it.

It also shows what happens when people believe marketing stories about multibit R2R DACs.

Which is doubly ironic, as multibit DACs were all that existed back in the olden days when people say digital glare originated...so I don't see how they could be viewed as the "solution" to the "problem".

 

[threni]

Topping E30 for $100 if you want volume control and Bluetooth

If you get the E30 for Bluetooth you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Katji]

It also shows what happens when people believe marketing stories about multibit R2R DACs.

Which is doubly ironic, as multibit DACs were all that existed back in the olden days when people say digital glare originated...so I don't see how they could be viewed as the "solution" to the "problem".

I must admit, I didn't even register it was R2R, I just saw some bs words and the "emotion" bs triggered me.
R2R... I know one believer, very biased, who has an Audio-gd after getting a faulty Topping. And one who seems to have got improvements with a Soekris by experimenting with a tube buffer and different output OP stuff.
I think if it could be such an improvement, there would be more sales and more development, even with the higher cost...I would have heard of major sales trend in the high-end side.
Meanwhile, my SMSL M8 (ES9018) is in the cupboard, and the amp, because the speakers I've had for the last 2 months are so much better than what I had before, and they use PCM5242 DAC, and I can't imagine that any other DAC would improve it. ...Not that I could try, anyway. ...Actually there's a sort of psychological benefit in having the DAC and the amp hidden inside the speakers. [LOL]

 

[watchnerd]

I must admit, I didn't even register it was R2R, I just saw some bs words and the "emotion" bs triggered me.
R2R... I know one believer, very biased, who has an Audio-gd after getting a faulty Topping. And one who seems to have got improvements with a Soekris by experimenting with a tube buffer and different output OP stuff.
I think if it could be such an improvement, there would be more sales and more development, even with the higher cost...I would have heard of major sales trend in the high-end side.
Meanwhile, my SMSL M8 (ES9018) is in the cupboard, and the amp, because the speakers I've had for the last 2 months are so much better than what I had before, and they use PCM5242 DAC, and I can't imagine that any other DAC would improve it. ...Not that I could try, anyway. ...Actually there's a sort of psychological benefit in having the DAC and the amp hidden inside the speakers. [LOL]

Yeah, Modi Multibit uses an Analog Devices AD5547.

Which wasn't even designed for audio use....

You've got to jump through a lot of hoops to explain why one would choose to use it in a DAC in 2020.

Other than "You Gotta Get a Gimmick" to help sales and justify charging more. That part is rational.

 

[Katji]

Whatever their rationale, they can't claim that DS DAC is the cause of digital glare/harshness, they can only assert that R2R ameliorates it. That doesn't go far, because it would imply that the whole world has been misled.
It doesn't come anywhere near motivating me to try it... I can't see the problem. If I think there is some glare/harshness, it is the production, or the production combined with my speakers, in my room. And my head.

 

[Zeek]

First, a big thank you for the all the great advice - thanks to that and quite some reading, I feel like I am beginning to wrap my (DAC-newbie) head around some of this. As someone said, not always easy to find one's way amid the mass of information and at times highly technical information. Your pointers are invaluable!

Follow-up questions to get me over the finish line:

I. Regarding this earlier question of mine:
My laptop lives on a different floor from my hifi, so if I feed music files direct from laptop (via USB), I would need to set up a second laptop by the hifi just for this purpose. This is an option, though a bit unwieldy. What does it take (re gear, setup, cost) to be able to make the files 'virtually accessible' to the DAC? (RickSanchez mentioned NAS or streamer - grateful if you can enlighten me on ABCs of this, specific gear/system suggestions appreciated)
>> There were two options that seemed promising, and on which I have questions:

- First option: Setting up a Raspberry Pi as a streamer/player (per @RickSanchez and @SJ777)
a. I've looked at info on this and it really seems like a great solution for the price! But I admit I'm somewhat daunted, as a non-techie, by what might be involved in building and setting this up. Some of the sites are super-technical and get me lost fast, so I'm trying to understand if this is within my abilities or not...
Could you please enlighten me on what know-how/skillset/equipment is needed to do this? Is it just a matter of ordering the right elements and very simple assembly (eg placing an SD card in the right spot, placing Pi in its case etc.) and downloading the software? Or are we talking more sophisticated steps/skills/configuration?
(Apart from this general answer, if RPi build/set-up is fairly easy, I'd be grateful for links to simple 'how-to' sites/guides)
b. For this solution, can the music remain on the laptop's hard drive (or in the cloud), or do I need to place it on a local network?

- Second option: using DLNA on my Windows laptop, a Chromecast device and BubbleUPNP (per Chromatischism)
c. I'm not familiar with Chromecast, what kind of Chromecast device is needed? I saw online references to Chromecast audio (now discontinued, but apparently still can be found on eBay eg) - is this it? (BTW my amp is a Rotel RA-1060)
d. Does this then replace the need for a DAC? If so, what is the quality like?
(Again, any simple 'how-to' links for this set-up gladly received)

II. If I go with a decent DAC (like the models suggested above), is it worth considering running the optical output of my CD player (a Cambridge Audio D500-SE, now 15+ years old) through this DAC, am I likely to get better quality?

III. If I connect my laptop (Dell E7270) directly to the DAC via USB, is a device like the ifi iPurifier 3 worth getting? It ain't cheap and I'm unclear if it will really make a difference. No consensus view among reviews I found.

 

[Chromatischism]

- Second option: using DLNA on my Windows laptop, a Chromecast device and BubbleUPNP (per Chromatischism)
c. I'm not familiar with Chromecast, what kind of Chromecast device is needed? I saw online references to Chromecast audio (now discontinued, but apparently still can be found on eBay eg) - is this it? (BTW my amp is a Rotel RA-1060)
d. Does this then replace the need for a DAC? If so, what is the quality like?
(Again, any simple 'how-to' links for this set-up gladly received

If using a Chromecast audio, it is the DAC. If using the Chromecast HDMI, it is just a streamer and the AVR or integrated amp acts as the DAC. Either will be fine, but the latter has a lot more capabilities (multichannel, video, etc).

 

[Dialectic]

III. If I connect my laptop (Dell E7270) directly to the DAC via USB, is a device like the ifi iPurifier 3 worth getting? It ain't cheap and I'm unclear if it will really make a difference. No consensus view among reviews I found.

Absolutely not worth getting if you have a competently designed DAC.

And probably not worth getting if you have an incompetently designed DAC.

 

[RickSanchez]

Could you please enlighten me on what know-how/skillset/equipment is needed to do this? Is it just a matter of ordering the right elements and very simple assembly (eg placing an SD card in the right spot, placing Pi in its case etc.) and downloading the software? Or are we talking more sophisticated steps/skills/configuration?
(Apart from this general answer, if RPi build/set-up is fairly easy, I'd be grateful for links to simple 'how-to' sites/guides)
b. For this solution, can the music remain on the laptop's hard drive (or in the cloud), or do I need to place it on a local network?

A) No assembly that's in any way technical. Basically you'd be buying:

• A Raspberry Pi 4B (the board)
• A power supply. (Probably best just to buy one from the same spot you buy the board as these need to have enough power.)
• A microSD card, 16GB is more than enough.
• A case. Optional, but if nothing else it keeps most of the dust out. Since you'd just be running the Pi as a streamer/player there's no need to get a case that has a fan, passive cooling will be fine.
  • This is the only the step where you would need to do "assembly" and all it requires is a screwdriver and maybe attaching some heat sinks. Nothing technical at all.

B) In order to make the Raspberry Pi into a streamer / player you have to install the player software onto the microSD card first. For example, here's a simple guide from Volumio: https://cdn.volumio.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Quick-Start-Guide-Volumio.pdf

Not too much technical know-how required; mostly just following directions. Once it's up and running you would need to point the player (again, for example's sake let's say Volumio) to wherever your music lives. I know it can read from a local drive (i.e., the microSD card you install in your Raspberry Pi), an attached USB drive, or NAS. I'm not sure what options you have to play music files from a Windows laptop or the cloud.

 

[richardmathes]

There’s a ton of useful information already provided on this site, including recommended DACs whic can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

You will be much better served by doing a little research for yourself rather than asking others to do it for you.

Then what would be the purpose of a forum? Or of ASR, for that matter?