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D90 or Bifrost?

Oros Abaddon

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These are the two DAC's that I am looking at and I have heard good things about most of them but I still don't feel like I have enough information about either one and I am pretty new into the audiophile world.
 
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majingotan

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You're better served with the D90 as the Bifrost doesn't have enough features for the price such as DSD playback (without converting to PCM), a digital preamp and the display of course. Sound wise, they should be indistinguishable to each other
 

B&WTube

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I auditioned both of these side by side, for a couple weeks, at my house on Bowers 705s2’s. I went with the D90, for its detail and air yet still possessed good bass response. The D90 is more analytical than the Bifrost II (which is more laid back).

That being said I believe every system needs different things as it is tuned to one’s preferences. IF you have a slightly harsh and analytical sound, the Bifrost’s laid back manners may be a better fit for your system. I hope that helps!
 

BDWoody

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I auditioned both of these side by side, for a couple weeks, at my house on Bowers 705s2’s. I went with the D90, for its detail and air yet still possessed good bass response. The D90 is more analytical than the Bifrost II (which is more laid back).

I'm assuming this comparison was without any listening controls? Meaning, comparing with their outputs level matched, and without peeking?

Unless one was broken, analytical vs laid back is more a marketing/review echo vs something that is likely to be heard once controls for bias are put in place. Amazing how those obvious differences suddenly disappear...at least it was for me.
 

BDWoody

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These are the two DAC's that I am looking at and I have heard good things about most of them but I still don't feel like I have enough information about either one and I am pretty new into the audiophile world.

I'm with @majingotan here...audible differences between any 2 competent DAC's is going to be virtually impossible under any non pathological conditions to hear.

That may sound exactly opposite to what you are used to reading in the audio marketing machine, but it's actually true, and provable to yourself with a bit of effort. You don't have to trust anyone else's ears again when it comes to DAC's...or cables, or most of the other madness...

Pick based on features and competence. I'd go for the D90.
 

flowjm

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I'm assuming this comparison was without any listening controls? Meaning, comparing with their outputs level matched, and without peeking?

Unless one was broken, analytical vs laid back is more a marketing/review echo vs something that is likely to be heard once controls for bias are put in place. Amazing how those obvious differences suddenly disappear...at least it was for me.

I'm assuming that it's just a regurgitation of marketing babble filtered through numerous forums worth of fart huffing 'audiophiles'.
 

B&WTube

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I'm assuming this comparison was without any listening controls? Meaning, comparing with their outputs level matched, and without peeking?

Unless one was broken, analytical vs laid back is more a marketing/review echo vs something that is likely to be heard once controls for bias are put in place. Amazing how those obvious differences suddenly disappear...at least it was for me.

I respect the science and measuring, which is why I joined this forum. I believe objective and subjective comparisons together, is the way to audio Nirvana. I auditioned 5 DAC’s and they all sounded different, at the same volume at the same V, out. The quality was not determined by the price, at all. Could it have been a better test-sure. Was it invalid- no. I respect the method’s used here and think they are of tremendous value (even though, I don’t believe they are everything). This forum has greatly opened my eyes to a lot of things, before I joined. Out of respect- I can just stay quiet and not share any of my subjective experiences.
 

BDWoody

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I'm assuming that it's just a regurgitation of marketing babble filtered through numerous forums worth of fart huffing 'audiophiles'.

That's another way to put it...

Thing is, I heard it all too! Glad I came here before I returned the $3500 DAC because obviously, from what 'everone' said, I really needed to spend closer to $10k to get ' the sound' I was looking for.

To make a long story longer, for what I would have spent on a DAC, I now have 3xJBL 708p's, 6xJBL 705p's (all gotten on B Stock sale for half list price, which I saw on this site funny enough ($6k total)) , and use one of any number of DAC's, all of which were under $600.

I wonder how many people who spent $6000 on a DAC had their audio existence improved as much as I have. Apples/Nectarines in some ways, but there are a lot of hard earned dollars going to less than honest people over false promises made and then validated and promulgated in the captive press.
 

BDWoody

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of respect- I can just stay quiet and not share any of my subjective experiences

It's good to have you here, please don't think I'm attacking you at all. I was you.

Better than staying quiet, why not get a couple of friends and go through the hassle (and it is a hassle...make no doubt) of a well put together, truly DB test of a few DAC's? That would be much more than welcome. That is still your subjective impressions, they are simply controlled subjective impressions.

If I ever did one thing that changed my audio life, it was setting up a good test and hearing it for myself.

Either way, welcome! It is a great site...
 

NoMoFoNo

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This all becomes something of a return to original state for at least some of us. I came into the audio hobby as a skeptic who just wanted to re-capture the enjoyment of spinning records, something I grew up with. I scoffed, rightfully, at the expense and silliness. Still, I soon sound the forums and dove into the hobby head first. I became the consummate fart sniffer, posting frequently and using the audiophool-approved terms-of-art, which of course produce a lexicon that perfectly supports the magical thinking that has poisoned the hobby.

I have been cleansing in recent months, listening to digital, spending more time in these forums, and returning to a healthy skepticism about the entire hobby that has already saved me many hundreds of dollars on gear acquisition and cycling. A few snide remarks aside, ASR is a rare voice of reason in the audio world. How is it that so many of the other forums sing the same tune when it comes to subjectivist, gear-chasing aspects of the hobby? I've also noticed that mentioning ASR on the other forums draws attackers as if moths to a flame. I'm becoming more and more suspicious about the extent to which hobbyist forums are populated/influenced by those with financial interest in audio.
 

flowjm

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And also emotional interests. Many audiophiles pride themselves on their golden ears which can resolve details that mere mortal ears cannot, and will seemingly defend that delusion to the death (of their bank accounts).
 

B&WTube

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It's good to have you here, please don't think I'm attacking you at all. I was you.

Better than staying quiet, why not get a couple of friends and go through the hassle (and it is a hassle...make no doubt) of a well put together, truly DB test of a few DAC's? That would be much more than welcome. That is still your subjective impressions, they are simply controlled subjective impressions.

If I ever did one thing that changed my audio life, it was setting up a good test and hearing it for myself.

Either way, welcome! It is a great site...

Thank you for the warm welcome! I really didn’t think you were attacking, at all. I understand that you have to keep vigilant to keep this site science/fact focused-especially when a new member shows up. The fact you post like you do is a valuable service that helps ensure the quality of the discussions and information.

I used ASR’s site to select 4 DAC’s to compare, and borrowed an audiophile friend’s more expensive DAC. I played with them for 2 weeks, and then had a couple of audio friends come over to compare. Their observations were similar to mine, and on the more questionable aspects we did swap out doing a little blind testing. We took notes, throughout. For me, it came down to the Topping D50s and Sabaj D7. Ultimately I ordered the D90, as a result, and couldn’t be happier. I realize my friend’s and my subjective opinion, with limited blind A/B testing doesn’t really pass the litmus test here. However, I imagine I am one of few who extensively compared 2 DAC’s on their home system, which is why I chimed in. Hopefully, this provides enough of my methodology (however flawed), such that the OP can reasonably weigh my experience.
 

BDWoody

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...I realize my friend’s and my subjective opinion, with limited blind A/B testing doesn’t really pass the litmus test here...

I appreciate the good natured response!
It isn't that it doesn't pass the litmus test HERE, it's that it can't even be relied on by ourselves. I understand that you listened closely...i simply challenge you and your friends to put your (pretty much purely subjective...lets be honest) impressions to a more rigorous workout.

There is a lot more to psychoacoustics than most 'audiophiles' want to admit they are subject to...even though it is simply part of being human. Ok, enough soap-boxing...

If set up properly, my bet is that you will all suddenly have a much harder time making the same claims. I am absolutely happy to be wrong...
 

bloodpearl

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Any one running d90 with and tube amp>? Let me know how it sounds

my amp sounds more natural(Feliks audio elise). Apperently the bitfrost 2 aswell so best case is going for bitfrost 2 in this case i think over the d90 /d90 mqa
Let met know what you guys think!
 

B&WTube

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Any one running d90 with and tube amp>? Let me know how it sounds

my amp sounds more natural(Feliks audio elise). Apperently the bitfrost 2 aswell so best case is going for bitfrost 2 in this case i think over the d90 /d90 mqa
Let met know what you guys think!
I run a VTA70 Tube amp (hot rodded Dynaco ST70), and I ran both of those pre’s on it. You can see my subjective comments above, but basically the D90 is more detailed and more forward. The Bifrost II is more laid back, but richer. IMO, it is all about system/room synergy. Assuming your speakers are fairly neutral, if you run a solid state rectifier and brighter tubers, you may want the Bifrost. If you run a tube rectifier and neutral to signal dark tubes- I would get the D90. It not only measures better, it sounds damn good.
I have the non-MQA version of the D90, but if you steam a lot of MQA, while MQA doesn’t always sound better- it does seem to ensure more consistent quality on Tidal, so the MQA version might be worth the extra $100. I hope this helps.
 
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