D5PRO BC - inspired from Dartzeel NHB-108 - endgame amp or?

[mhardy6647]

The Darzteel knock-off is £666 delivered (surface shipping, allow 8 to 10 weeks) in the UK, that's about $880 USD. So it's not like they're giving them away.

Whether it meets the claimed spec I don't know but seems to me you could build a competent amp in China for that selling price. Topping seem to manage it.

What I don't see is what's supposed to be special about them.

They're (ahem) "supposed to be" DarTZeel amplifiers... price one of those some time.

In the name of music : listen first, measure later | darTZeel Official website

DarTZeel products reflect the passion and exuberance of Hervé Delétraz, from a young age, for music reproduction. We beg to differ. Listen first, measure later. Never the other way around. That’s the way we design our products.

www.dartzeel.com

 

[Mart68]

They're (ahem) "supposed to be" DarTZeel amplifiers... price one of those some time.
View attachment 444492

In the name of music : listen first, measure later | darTZeel Official website

DarTZeel products reflect the passion and exuberance of Hervé Delétraz, from a young age, for music reproduction. We beg to differ. Listen first, measure later. Never the other way around. That’s the way we design our products.

www.dartzeel.com

This one I'm looking at is a 'Dartzel' clone. Looks nothing like a Dartzeel and is billed as 'Transaudio' on the case:



Whereas the clone Accuphase does look very vaguely like a real one but is billed as 'BRZHiFi' on the case:



So the only place the brand names are seen is in the ads - and it's spelt incorrectly in one of those.

Whether they really copy the circuit exactly I don't know. There used to be a Krell KSA 100 knock off available - maybe still is - that internally was nothing like the real one I have.

 

[mhardy6647]

This one I'm looking at is a 'Dartzel' clone. Looks nothing like a Dartzeel and is billed as 'Transaudio' on the case:



Whereas the clone Accuphase does look very vaguely like a real one but is billed as 'BRZHiFi' on the case:



So the only place the brand names are seen is in the ads - and it's spelt incorrectly in one of those.

Whether they really copy the circuit exactly I don't know. There used to be a Krell KSA 100 knock off available - maybe still is - that internally was nothing like the real one I have.

So -- one might ask oneself: Why does the advertising include the word "DarTZeel"? Perhaps it is just "keyword spamming"?


EDIT: What the heck?! Why not get yourself an Orsefon and be finished. Endgame.

Or you could go with this American-made clone...
it's even got green light tube technology, just like the Orsefon!

 

[Mart68]

Reminds me of that very old Simpsons episode (back when it was good) where they go to the 'grey import store' to buy a new TV.

'I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one!':

 

[Mordor]

ON my wish list.....gonna get a D5 Pro.

 

[Alberto11]

ON my wish list.....gonna get a D5 Pro.

Me too. There'll be a coupon code "event" each month most likely or maybe every 2, so waiting might be worth it if you're not in a hurry.

 

[Mordor]

For now im "working" my wife to convince her, and get the juice to buy it.....
Share the dates.....there is already a cupon on top page of 50 euros...

 

[mhardy6647]

Coupons ... oy vey.

 

[board]

Did anybody have a chance to compare one of the Dartzeel clones to an original Dartzeel?
Or did anybody read about someone else having done it?

Also, have any of you come across a Dartzeel preamp or integrated amp clone?
I've only found the power amp clone on Aliexpress, and only a clone of the NHB-108NS, not any other models.

 

[BeeKay]

Did anybody have a chance to compare one of the Dartzeel clones to an original clone?
Or did anybody read about someone else having done it?

Also, have any of you come across a Dartzeel preamp or integrated amp clone?

Eternal truth #837
„There are no free meals“

 

[Mordor]

So far i didn’t read nothing about it....

Everybody seems to be using with good results this DAC, also clone:

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005004049392692.html?pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000027859514246%22%7D&sourceType=1&spm=a2g0o.wish-manage-home.0.0&gatewayAdapt=glo2bra

 

[board]

So far i didn’t read nothing about it....

Everybody seems to be using with good results this DAC, also clone:

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005004049392692.html?pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000027859514246%22%7D&sourceType=1&spm=a2g0o.wish-manage-home.0.0&gatewayAdapt=glo2bra

Yes, I heard about people using that particular preamp (not a DAC, as far as I understand). I just figured that either it would be silly to use a clone of an old tube amp, or that it would be just as good to use any other preamp (e.g. a potentially cleaner, newer one).
But it would be interesting:
1: If a clone of a Dartzeel preamp would be produced.
2: If anybody compares a clone to an original Dartzeel. Of course, this is usually done sighted and with no volume level matching, so most likely the original would be the "winner".

If you, or anybody else, hear about any of these in the future, please write a comment in this thread or send me a personal message .
Thanks!

 

[Mordor]

Thank you for iluminate this poor soul, in the diference between DAC and Pre-Amp.

I suppose i would have to use my DAC plus this pre-amp for digital sources, correct?

 

[Mnyb]

Acuphase clones migth work fine apart from the obvious infringement who would not endorse imho . The original has some real engineering behind .

DartZeel seems pure cargo cult no real engineering spreading the usual myths bla bla

 

[Mordor]

So de Dartzeel and Cary are superior?

 

[mhardy6647]

Thank you for iluminate this poor soul, in the diference between DAC and Pre-Amp.

I suppose i would have to use my DAC plus this pre-amp for digital sources, correct?

A DAC converts digital signal ("data") into an analog waveform. It may include attenuation (volume control, EQ, etc.), but it certainly doesn't have to.

A preamp generally provides a source (input) switch, impedance buffering, (sometimes) gain, an attenuator, and perhaps various contouring (equalization) options. A preamp can, of course, also include a DAC, if the manufacture so desires -- i.e., the differentiators between preamp and "DAC" can be murky.

Preamps can operate solely in the analog domain (analog signal in, analog signal "processing", to analog output), or digital -- although at some point, the signal has to 'become' analog. That point could be at the very end of the chain (i.e., active loudspeakers with digital input and an onboard DAC), though.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Anyone who dismisses this setup on the basis of a chart is autistic.

What?

 

[Mordor]

A DAC converts digital signal ("data") into an analog waveform. It may include attenuation (volume control, EQ, etc.), but it certainly doesn't have to.

A preamp generally provides a source (input) switch, impedance buffering, (sometimes) gain, an attenuator, and perhaps various contouring (equalization) options. A preamp can, of course, also include a DAC, if the manufacture so desires -- i.e., the differentiators between preamp and "DAC" can be murky.

Preamps can operate solely in the analog domain (analog signal in, analog signal "processing", to analog output), or digital -- although at some point, the signal has to 'become' analog. That point could be at the very end of the chain (i.e., active loudspeakers with digital input and an onboard DAC), though.

I get it. Thinking get the Pre Carl clone, and then conect my DAC as food. Not the best option, but what is possible.
At least my old Marants CD50 will have e new life....

 

[Richard G]

I read through the thread on AK and seems to me at least some of the buyers of these clones are making some assumptions:

1. That amplifiers have a 'sound' the same way a guitar or a piano has a sound
2. That expensive amplifiers like Accuphase and Dartzeel have a better 'sound' than cheaper offerings
3. That these clones offer a way to get that better 'sound' more inexpensively.

Because assumption 1. is wrong the other two assumptions make no sense.

I suppose if you want an amp that looks a bit like an Accuphase (or whatever) from a distance then fair enough But otherwise, I don't see the point.

Before you asserted that no amplifiers have a unique sound how many that are said to have a sound have you actually listened to, in a good system?

 

[Richard G]

Eternal truth #837
„There are no free meals“

Eternal truths #838 and 839

There is mass production, and improvements in technology

Eternal truth 38

Chinese labour costs are a fraction of those in Switzerland

Eternal truth 1

Chinese profit margins are lower than in Switzerland