Cute new schiit speaker amps

[NoMoFoNo]

In the real world, where low power into relatively sensitive speakers ruled for decades, and where even today plenty of us happily listen at mostly low SPLs, I raise my eyebrows when told that large amounts of power are needed to drive speakers. When I feel persuaded that I must be wrong for not wanting more power, I refer to:

Peak SPL Calculator

Plug in the requisite numbers and one can see that not-that-many-watts can make LOUD music in common use cases. I appreciate the offerings at lower wattages (and for much lower prices) and can vouch that I've driven large 92db sensitive floor standers with 20wpc with a big smile on my face. We're not all head bangers.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

In the real world, where low power into relatively sensitive speakers ruled for decades, and where even today plenty of us happily listen at mostly low SPLs, I raise my eyebrows when told that large amounts of power are needed to drive speakers. When I feel persuaded that I must be wrong for not wanting more power, I refer to:

Peak SPL Calculator

Plug in the requisite numbers and one can see that not-that-many-watts can make LOUD music in common use cases. I appreciate the offerings at lower wattages (and for much lower prices) and can vouch that I've driven large 92db sensitive floor standers with 20wpc with a big smile on my face. We're not all head bangers.

In the real world speakers, listening spaces, levels and music taste determine if you need 20 W or 200 W.
All can be vastly different from person to person.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Speakers, listening spaces, levels and music taste determine if you need 20 W or 200 W.
All can be vastly different from person to person.

Sure, and the vast majority of use cases are covered by, say, 40wpc or less. Good quality lower-power offered in new equipment is something I welcome greatly. Why ever pay for more power than needed, considering that amplifiers have traditionally cost big money per watt?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Watts have never been cheaper. Considering this you should get plenty and never worry. You also might upgrade your speakers some day.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Watts have never been cheaper. Considering this you should get plenty and never worry. You also might upgrade your speakers some day.

Ah, no. I have become a fan of lower power driving higher sensitivity speaker designs. In my main system, my 92db sensitive floor standers would never use more than 40wpc at my preferred listening levels (for me). I'm more inclined to go higher sensitivity and lower power in the future, not the other way around. To each their own on such things.

 

[mhardy6647]

Ah, no. I have become a fan of lower power driving higher sensitivity speaker designs. In my main system, my 92db sensitive floor standers would never use more than 40wpc at my preferred listening levels (for me). I'm more inclined to go higher sensitivity and lower power in the future, not the other way around. To each their own on such things.

You are not alone -- not that I would consider 92 dB terribly sensitive

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Ah, no. I have become a fan of lower power driving higher sensitivity speaker designs. In my main system, my 92db sensitive floor standers would never use more than 40wpc at my preferred listening levels (for me). I'm more inclined to go higher sensitivity and lower power in the future, not the other way around. To each their own on such things.

Of course. To each their own. Don't just go state that xx Watts is enough.
It will always depend on SPL, music type, distance, speakers.
And this is also a place where people are more inclined to have some exotic equipment and taste than in the real world where the vast majority doesn't know what impedance is.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

@mhardy6647, you're right that 92db isn't nearly as sensitive as something like the Klipsch big box models, which bolsters my points made above. Hell, If I were driving some Forte IVs I could probably use a flea watt amp and be happy.

@Holdt, I see much more discussion on ASR about inexpensive, utterly NON-exotic equipment than any other audio forum I check out, unless you consider SMSL, Topping, Aiyima and Fosi to be exotic. Exotic tastes among ASR posters? Are we reading the same material?

ASR is also the place where facts usually matter the most.

IMO, most consumers worried about amplifier power need to focus on desired peak SPL at the listening position. The listener who drives reasonably sensitive speakers and listens at reasonable SPLs would be wise to consider their actual power needs instead of listening to the 'MO POWER!' brigade IMO.

Again, I'll post the link below for the 98% of readers who will never research the finer details of amplifiers and simply want to know how much power they really need. It's almost always less than they think:

Peak SPL Calculator

 

[juliangst]

The new SMSL $50 speaker amp looks like a good alternative to those schiit amps if you need a small desktop speaker amp

SMSL DA1 / DA-1 High Resolution Power Amplifier

Buy SMSL DA1 / DA-1 High Resolution Power Amplifier on HiFiGo, and you can enjoy a year warranty and the best after-sales service.

hifigo.com

 

[dzerig]

My place has an open floor plan, picture a 20' x 20' square with kitchen appliances in the middle on one side, from above it looks like a C.

Running Urd -> Yggy -> Freya+ -> Rekrr -> diy two way floorstanding speakers with a 12" woofer and 4" compression driver.

15' away from the speakers my app measures 89.6 db.

*.

 

[NTK]

My place has an open floor plan, picture a 20' x 20' square with kitchen appliances in the middle on one side, from above it looks like a C.

Running Urd -> Yggy -> Freya+ -> Rekrr -> diy two way floorstanding speakers with a 12" woofer and 4" compression driver.

15' away from the speakers my app measures 89.6 db.

*.

That poor compression driver must be feeling suffocated.

The JBL M2, with its D2430K compression driver and "only" 3 inch diameter voice coils, when given enough amplifier gives 108 dB in 8 m (26 ft).

 

[juliangst]

Only 3 watts for a 12 inch at roughly 5 meters away indeed sounds a bit weak

 

[mhardy6647]

Only 3 watts for a 12 inch at roughly 5 meters away indeed sounds a bit weak

depends on the driver.
An Altec 414 would fill a large room with three watts, and sound pretty darned astonishing doing so.

That said, and in full disclosure, I use a system based on 15 inch drivers (Altec 515B)... and about 3 watts (single-ended 2A3).

 

[NoMoFoNo]

The 'MO POWER' brigade has done a wonderful job of convincing audio hobbyists that they need gobs of power, usually absent any pertinent details. I've posted it at least twice in this thread, but here it is again, and it's most of what a consumer needs to determine how much power they need to hit peak desired SPL in their listening environment.

Peak SPL Calculator

For the poster above with the Rekkr, it's possible, likely even, that they listen at levels much lower than the noted 89.6db except as a test for this thread. I almost never listen above 50db in my main system, so why on earth am I going to spend large for oodles of power, when something south of 40wpc would easily harm my hearing?

 

[TinEaredOne]

Read the thread. Lots of people claiming to need more power. Having bought a Gjallarhorn a few months ago, I can tell anyone who is interested that it has nice control of my Energy RC-10 speakers (8 ohm, 88 db), and that in my nearfield office setup I can't turn the volume on the Heretic I'm using as a preamp past 10:30 on mid-gain without exceeding my listening comfort. No way I even get to 9 on high gain. So, it's plenty loud. It also presents a very solid, detailed stereo image. Lately, I've been spending a good deal of time just enjoying the music that comes out of the combo.

I bought it because it fit the form factor I wanted and I like the sound of most Schiit gear. I have not been disappointed. The background is also, by the way, dead silent.

 

[SGB75]

I think we should acknowledge that all audio products are not meant to be allrounders, but they have been designed for a specific use case. Smaller Genelec "ones" - 8331 and to some extent 8341 - for example, are sublime near field monitors, but they don't meet all needs of the amirs of this world who want to listen their music loud and in bigger spaces. The same applies to these small pieces of Schiit (sorry about that). They work fine for many of us, who just don't need much power, but of course, they are not the right choice for everyone.

Having extra power in reserve never hurts as such, and who knows - I might need it in future, but keeping it down has it's advantages too: like possibility to design a high quality amplifier with a small physical size and reasonably low price.

Having said that, I like this thread. Lots of well reasoned posts showing that there are knowledgeable people participating on this forum.

I know this was posted a long time ago but I am brand new here and want to comment how spot on this is. Nobody is shitting all over the idea of desktop speakers because their floor standing are much better in a large room. Why not extend that same thought process to amps. It is situational. Right tool for the right job. May be the wrong tool entirely for a different job. I wouldn't want to drive a 3 foot spike into the ground using the mini hammer we use to drive nails into drywall.

 

[TinEaredOne]

The 'MO POWER' brigade has done a wonderful job of convincing audio hobbyists that they need gobs of power, usually absent any pertinent details. I've posted it at least twice in this thread, but here it is again, and it's most of what a consumer needs to determine how much power they need to hit peak desired SPL in their listening environment.

Peak SPL Calculator

For the poster above with the Rekkr, it's possible, likely even, that they listen at levels much lower than the noted 89.6db except as a test for this thread. I almost never listen above 50db in my main system, so why on earth am I going to spend large for oodles of power, when something south of 40wpc would easily harm my hearing?

LOL, I know you posted this six months ago, but I just clicked the link and did the calculation for my setup with the Gjallarhorn. Apparently 10wpc in my seating position equates to more than 108db, which is nuts. As stated above, I rarely listen to the system at more than 9 o'clock on my Heretic (and that on low or mid-gain), which serves as my preamp. I can't imagine trying to open it up, nearfield, to anywhere near full power. I value my ears to much to damage them with unnecessarily loud sounds. Plenty of power for my situation, which is why I bought the amp. It is performing rather nicely in my setup, by the way.

 

[Joe Smith]

I like the "idea" of these amps...and I like Schiit in general...but the price/value just doesn't work for me, when we look at these relative to the overseas competition. If the G amp was about $200, or $225... But I don't have a problem with the sound I'm getting from the Fosi and Aiyima products, and the cost difference is just too much. For someone who really wants Class A/B in a nearfield setup, they're a good option.

 

[Hatto]

I like the "idea" of these amps...and I like Schiit in general...but the price/value just doesn't work for me, when we look at these relative to the overseas competition. If the G amp was about $200, or $225... But I don't have a problem with the sound I'm getting from the Fosi and Aiyima products, and the cost difference is just too much. For someone who really wants Class A/B in a nearfield setup, they're a good option.

One overlooked advantage of these amps, especially valuable in my opinion, is ZERO HISS that I've been unable to experience with anything even close to this price range.

 

[Joe Smith]

Yeah, I don't like hiss for sure...have not experienced that with my Fosi, Aiyima or SMSL Class D amps. If they were hissy, I'd go back to A/B amps in a heartbeat.