Custom Wharfedale Crossover Service - Would This Be Advised?

[Connor1a]

I ran across the following on eBay. I’m always looking for ways to improve my system… I have a pair of Wharfedale LINTONS I purchased last Christmas off Crutchfield (they came with fetching matching stands).

Wharfedale Linton 85 - Speakers crossover upgrade service - quality parts (PAIR) | eBay

"Im very happy! The untouched speaker sounds more and more radioshack in comparison. There is a very nice easiness and neutrality in the tones. It plays classical, jazz, old and new pop, and louder guitar material very well like it should.".

www.ebay.com

Would something like this be worth the investment? I’m probably not quite technical enough to build something like this myself (close, but I’d rather start on something smaller). Clearly, it would void any warranty on my speakers. On the other hand, if it materially improved the speaker performance, at less than half the cost of upgrading to Super Lintons, it may be a worth pursuing. Or is it better just to save my pennies until I can afford a pair of Super Lintons (or other, competing speakers).

Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[DanielT]

If that new crossover has the same values, that is, the same crossover but according to the seller has better quality components:
*Full Cross-over upgrade
*Replace capacitors on tweeter with premium film capacitors
*Replace midrange capacitors with 1% poly film capacitors
*Replace tweeter resistors film non inductive type
*Replace midrange resistors with film non-inductive type.
*Replace woofer inductors with thick 14 awg steel core low distortion inductors
*Replace midrange inductors with Air-core perfect lay , low distortion type.

Then you will most likely not hear the slightest difference. This despite the seller saying:
In return you will get more powerful better extended low frequency, more dynamic cleaner midrange, and smoother higher resolution highs. The speaker will come to life with new levels of detail and dimension.

On the other hand, it is a newly designed crossover, which has nothing to do with the original, with different values of the components, different crossover points, maybe a different type of slopes (order of the crossover). Then you can probably probably hear some difference. Probably for the worse.
Trust that Wharfedale has knowledgeable and skilled people who can design good crossovers/speakers. Or rather, trust Wharfedale more than some random dude on eBay who has put together a crossover.

For the US $585.00 that the seller wants for the crossover upgrade kit, you can instead buy something else for your hifi that can make a difference.

 

[Mnyb]

It gets my spider sense tingling ?

You cant just replace components with so called better ones with the same value. Passive components have parasitic properties . Such as inductors also have resistance and possibly also some capacitance .

So with another better component you need extensive measurements of the speakers output and tweak the values somewhat.

Another confusing factor is the tolerances of capacitors which are quite high meaning not even two of the same brand can be guaranteed to be the same.

I would trust Warferdale in this .

This seller seems to not know his stuff .

Keep enjoying the music and speakers as they are

 

[Connor1a]

For the US $585.00 that the seller wants for the crossover upgrade kit, you can instead buy something else for your hifi that can make a difference.

Ah - Now this is the heart of the matter. What I’m really in the mood for is an upgraded preamp. Right now I’m using a WiiM Ultra which does the job fine, but I’d like something with more inputs / XLR connections. Unfortunately, the number of true 2 channel preamps with dedicated dual sub outs is pretty small in the sub 2k$ market. I’ve pretty much convinced myself that my best bet is to keep the Ultra and add a MiniDSP. The Flex would give me the balanced connections to my amps so that may end up being my end game for now… I’d need to figure out how to go from the Flex to my subs (is TRS to coax a thing or would I need to go TRS to RCA and use the RCA inputs at my sub?). I’d need to new cables Ack! A full solution w/ SW would be 1k$ which is a lot…. As much as a new preamp… As I said, Ack!

 

[Henryk]

"Could" someone improve on the crossover Wharfedale made?
Sure - don't see why not.

But is the seller one of those people?
That's the real question!

 

[DanielT]

I may have judged the eBay Wharfedale crossover as worse or not adding anything v.s the original, but I don't really know. It could be worse, neither or better. In any case, nothing I would risk spending US $585.00 on anyway. Because that would require, as already mentioned in the thread, a lot of measurements to show improvements that justified these US $585.00.
Better to tinker with EQ instead. You can do whatever you want with EQ and connect it in and out when you want.

Ah - Now this is the heart of the matter. What I’m really in the mood for is an upgraded preamp. Right now I’m using a WiiM Ultra which does the job fine, but I’d like something with more inputs / XLR connections. Unfortunately, the number of true 2 channel preamps with dedicated dual sub outs is pretty small in the sub 2k$ market. I’ve pretty much convinced myself that my best bet is to keep the Ultra and add a MiniDSP. The Flex would give me the balanced connections to my amps so that may end up being my end game for now… I’d need to figure out how to go from the Flex to my subs (is TRS to coax a thing or would I need to go TRS to RCA and use the RCA inputs at my sub?). I’d need to new cables Ack! A full solution w/ SW would be 1k$ which is a lot…. As much as a new preamp… As I said, Ack!

Okay, what you're thinking about is at least concrete changes.

Why do you need balanced connections?
You say you want two inputs. What do you have as a source? Streaming, CD, Vinyl?

WiiM Ultra do you mean the network streamer or the WiiM Ultra Amp?

Both the Wiim Ultra the streamer and the amp have, if I remember correctly, sub out. If you need two sub outs, why not an RCA splitter? Or do you want more flexibility than having both subwoofers receive the same signal?

 

[Mnyb]

The whole ”modify others existing products ” business scheme is usually rather hair brained to begin with .

Before my audiophile card was revoked i sent a DAC to some ” guy in a shed ” operation for modifying. It only removed some cash from me and the whole resale value.of the DAC.

So i would keep the speakers intact and as delivered by Warferdale

 

[Connor1a]

Why do you need balanced connections?
You say you want two inputs. What do you have as a source? Streaming, CD, Vinyl?

WiiM Ultra do you mean the network streamer or the WiiM Ultra Amp?

Both the Wiim Ultra the streamer and the amp have, if I remember correctly, sub out. If you need two sub outs, why not an RCA splitter? Or do you want more flexibility than having both subwoofers receive the same signal?

Two thoughts on balanced vs not balanced. 1) While all my RCA runs are in the < 3’ range (patch cables), and I use shielded cables (mainly Blue Jeans), my “audio cabinet” is jam packed. I’ve been somewhat concerned with interference from power supplies etc. Balanced might help deal with some of that angst. 2) I have NCx500 monoblock amps with native XLR connections. Right now I’ve using an RCA to XLR connector to connect to the WiiM Ultra Audio-out. Might be nice just to have balanced connections on that side of the kit (though I recognize the shielded cables may very well be sufficient - I don’t believe the extra few mV balanced power would buy me much - maybe a bit - I do play my music loud).

Source wise, I’m streaming natively from the WiiM Ultra (streamer) over WiFi, then have an Audiolabs 7000CDT and Sonos Port coming in through an optical switch via the WiiM’s Toslink in, and finally I have a Technics SL100C via a Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 coming into the WiiM via it’s Audio-in (which I’m not thrilled about, Amir’s measurements weren’t stellar as I recall, but that’s my only analog-in port / the phono preamp port in did even worse on the measurements… again, as I recall).

Finally, I’m running 2 subs in dual mono off the WiiM at the moment. My WiiM acoustics are such that I may be at a point of diminishing returns. I mean, WiiM keeps improving their RC. I keep coming back to a vexing desire to run the subs in a full 2 channel mode paired R/L with the mains. I’ve tried the 2 subs up front, one in front, one in back, one on each of the sides of the room… I just struggle to get them really dialed in when in mono. Personally, I think I’ve had (anecdotally) better results in R/L 2 channel (I haven’t measured them though - I need to do that). But, I keep being told that the mono configuration is absolutely acceptable for music (which is what this system is used for / will be used for - it won’t need LFE for home theater). I’m hard headed though lol. Some very smart people here have coached me more than once on this. I should probably lock up my debit card and go home, but I keep stewing.

More than you asked, but that’s kind of where I am at the moment… Thanks much for the questions.

Heaven help me…..

 

[Mnyb]

I also got suckered by the ”better external power supply scam ” btw

 

[Henryk]

Before my audiophile card was revoked i sent a DAC to some ” guy in a shed ” operation for modifying. It only removed some cash from me and the whole resale value.of the DAC.

Hahah!
Fantastic wit, my friend

 

[Henryk]

Heaven help me…..

You've got Lintons; Heaven already helped you!

 

[JeremyFife]

Two thoughts on balanced vs not balanced. 1) While all my RCA runs are in the < 3’ range (patch cables), and I use shielded cables (mainly Blue Jeans), my “audio cabinet” is jam packed. I’ve been somewhat concerned with interference from power supplies etc. Balanced might help deal with some of that angst. 2) I have NCx500 monoblock amps with native XLR connections. Right now I’ve using an RCA to XLR connector to connect to the WiiM Ultra Audio-out. Might be nice just to have balanced connections on that side of the kit (though I recognize the shielded cables may very well be sufficient - I don’t believe the extra few mV balanced power would buy me much - maybe a bit - I do play my music loud).

Source wise, I’m streaming natively from the WiiM Ultra (streamer) over WiFi, then have an Audiolabs 7000CDT and Sonos Port coming in through an optical switch via the WiiM’s Toslink in, and finally I have a Technics SL100C via a Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 coming into the WiiM via it’s Audio-in (which I’m not thrilled about, Amir’s measurements weren’t stellar as I recall, but that’s my only analog-in port / the phono preamp port in did even worse on the measurements… again, as I recall).

Finally, I’m running 2 subs in dual mono off the WiiM at the moment. My WiiM acoustics are such that I may be at a point of diminishing returns. I mean, WiiM keeps improving their RC. I keep coming back to a vexing desire to run the subs in a full 2 channel mode paired R/L with the mains. I’ve tried the 2 subs up front, one in front, one in back, one on each of the sides of the room… I just struggle to get them really dialed in when in mono. Personally, I think I’ve had (anecdotally) better results in R/L 2 channel (I haven’t measured them though - I need to do that). But, I keep being told that the mono configuration is absolutely acceptable for music (which is what this system is used for / will be used for - it won’t need LFE for home theater). I’m hard headed though lol. Some very smart people here have coached me more than once on this. I should probably lock up my debit card and go home, but I keep stewing.

More than you asked, but that’s kind of where I am at the moment… Thanks much for the questions.

Heaven help me…..

I think you already know this: make some measurements before you spend any money.

Ears are not reliable (mine aren't, anyway). Get some objective information about different room placements and you can make a properly informed decision about what needs to change (if anything)

 

[antcollinet]

Would something like this be worth the investment?

No no and thrice no - for all the reasons given above.

Don't waste your money.

 

[Jim Creek]

Lintons are top notch speakers with universally great reviews. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

 

[Flaesh]

I haven’t measured

Umik-1 may be useful.

I’ve tried the 2 subs up front, one in front, one in back, one on each of the sides of the room… I just struggle to get them really dialed in when in mono. Personally, I think I’ve had (anecdotally) better results in R/L 2 channel (I haven’t measured them though - I need to do that). But, I keep being told that the mono configuration is absolutely acceptable for music

I use a mono subwoofer system with four subwoofers, two of which are inaudible. I'm planning to add four more. Only for music. In a regular apartment.
Compare different options and choose the one that suits you best.

 

[Ropeburn]

If that new crossover has the same values, that is, the same crossover but according to the seller has better quality components:
*Full Cross-over upgrade
*Replace capacitors on tweeter with premium film capacitors
*Replace midrange capacitors with 1% poly film capacitors
*Replace tweeter resistors film non inductive type
*Replace midrange resistors with film non-inductive type.
*Replace woofer inductors with thick 14 awg steel core low distortion inductors
*Replace midrange inductors with Air-core perfect lay , low distortion type.

Then you will most likely not hear the slightest difference. This despite the seller saying:
In return you will get more powerful better extended low frequency, more dynamic cleaner midrange, and smoother higher resolution highs. The speaker will come to life with new levels of detail and dimension.

On the other hand, it is a newly designed crossover, which has nothing to do with the original, with different values of the components, different crossover points, maybe a different type of slopes (order of the crossover). Then you can probably probably hear some difference. Probably for the worse.
Trust that Wharfedale has knowledgeable and skilled people who can design good crossovers/speakers. Or rather, trust Wharfedale more than some random dude on eBay who has put together a crossover.

For the US $585.00 that the seller wants for the crossover upgrade kit, you can instead buy something else for your hifi that can make a difference.

Late reply, but what the fuck. For that money I can BUY used Lintons without stands!

 

[DanielT]

Late reply, but what the fuck. For that money I can BUY used Lintons without stands!

Such an "upgrade" kit seems rather unnecessary to do with a pair of well-designed new speakers.

Classic vintage Lintons on the other hand that are up to half a century old may be time to recap the crossover:

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/wharfdale-linton-3xp-no-mid-response-recap.272774/page-4

I quickly scrolled through that thread. It seems like there was something wrong with a midrange driver and the tweeters. So it may be time to replace them. Which then more or less leads to a full blown DIY project and ... well replace all the drivers and keep the boxes if you think they look nice. Maybe brace the speaker boxes. If so; new speakers and no more classic Lintons.

 

[Mnyb]

Late reply, but what the fuck. For that money I can BUY used Lintons without stands!

yes sell the old lintons and buy super lintons

 

[Connor1a]

yes sell the old lintons and buy super lintons

Are the Super Lintons that much of an upgrade? I’ve honestly thought about selling my Lintons and swapping them out. My largest barrier is shipping the old Lintons out to whoever buys them. I have all the boxes etc so its not like it’d be THAT terrible, but it’d be a PITA regardless…

 

[Ktacos]

Not even counting all the good reasons people have already listed as to why these mods would be a terrible idea, if there's no data to show the end result of what the mods even do then there's no reason to believe anything the designer or seller says.

Always been a little annoyed by the whole mods for money market. Something like selling people more expensive versions of the components already on your pcb? I mean that's just a list, not really a business model. There's hardly ever any data to back up the mods, and some places like black lion audio obfuscate the results with their own stupid ratings system.