Curious about subwoofer/low frequency "tightness"/musicality. What does it even mean? What do YOU look for?

[Chrispy]

i was reading stuff and i was looking at the Wiim Amp Ultra but saw that these can't really be connected to pcs without some extra hardware or something?

I don't use a pc as a source except via wifi, which hasn't been a problem. I'd think the Wiim units offer good flexibility for connections, tho haven't looked for details. What do you need?

 

[Jiraya369]

I don't use a pc as a source except via wifi, which hasn't been a problem. I'd think the Wiim units offer good flexibility for connections, tho haven't looked for details. What do you need?

usb connection to pc so i can use the wiim as a source yk

some people talk about using optical or analog converters for pc and idk if that is going to be the best for sound

 

[Chrispy]

usb connection to pc so i can use the wiim as a source yk

some people talk about using optical or analog converters for pc and idk if that is going to be the best for sound

I've used gear that simply accommodates the connections (inputs/outputs/necessary processing) I need so I don't need to come up with some sort of creative solution that may or may not work with the various drm things to deal with. Just not worth a lot to try and cheat IMO generally. Hard to generalize, though.

 

[dlaloum]

usb connection to pc so i can use the wiim as a source yk

some people talk about using optical or analog converters for pc and idk if that is going to be the best for sound

Several of the Wiim devices have an HDMI input - that is probably the best option. (very few PC's have no HDMI!? - question is whether there is a "spare" one!)
If your PC has the option of an SPDIF/Toslink connection, that too keeps things in the digital domain, no conversions along the way - so the sound quality is dependent on the DAC - and the Wiim is pretty good.

Going Analog means converting at the PC, then having the Wiim convert back to digital using its ADC, then convert back to analog using its DAC - and yeah, that is going to degrade the result... by how much depends on the quality of each step, but it isn't desirable.

EDIT: Sorry - I just realised you want to use the Wiim as a source? - so you want an INPUT to the PC from the Wiim?
Why? what is the use case?

 

[Jiraya369]

Several of the Wiim devices have an HDMI input - that is probably the best option. (very few PC's have no HDMI!? - question is whether there is a "spare" one!)
If your PC has the option of an SPDIF/Toslink connection, that too keeps things in the digital domain, no conversions along the way - so the sound quality is dependent on the DAC - and the Wiim is pretty good.

Going Analog means converting at the PC, then having the Wiim convert back to digital using its ADC, then convert back to analog using its DAC - and yeah, that is going to degrade the result... by how much depends on the quality of each step, but it isn't desirable.

yeah that's what im saying, the hdmi input for pc is only for the display end, there's not point connecting the wiim to my gpu lmao

and sadly no i dont have those other connections so i'll have to use analog

That's why i was basically forced to look at pc dacs like the topping ones

thank you for the answer!

 

[Jiraya369]

I've used gear that simply accommodates the connections (inputs/outputs/necessary processing) I need so I don't need to come up with some sort of creative solution that may or may not work with the various drm things to deal with. Just not worth a lot to try and cheat IMO generally. Hard to generalize, though.

yeah exactly! you get me!! That's why im trying not to go with the wiim for my pc even though it was my first choice as it just seems to be made for anything BUT a pc haha

thanks for the answers till now my friend!

 

[Chrispy]

yeah exactly! you get me!! That's why im trying not to go with the wiim for my pc even though it was my first choice as it just seems to be made for anything BUT a pc haha

thanks for the answers till now my friend!

I don't use a pc as htpc or generally anything more exciting than a general source via wifi (no more interesting than a digital file from optical players or thumb drives, etc). Not sure how that works with your use of the Wiim vs other gear tho despite your support! So not sure what I'm getting but glad to help!

 

[Jiraya369]

Several of the Wiim devices have an HDMI input - that is probably the best option. (very few PC's have no HDMI!? - question is whether there is a "spare" one!)
If your PC has the option of an SPDIF/Toslink connection, that too keeps things in the digital domain, no conversions along the way - so the sound quality is dependent on the DAC - and the Wiim is pretty good.

Going Analog means converting at the PC, then having the Wiim convert back to digital using its ADC, then convert back to analog using its DAC - and yeah, that is going to degrade the result... by how much depends on the quality of each step, but it isn't desirable.

EDIT: Sorry - I just realised you want to use the Wiim as a source? - so you want an INPUT to the PC from the Wiim?
Why? what is the use case?

just saw the edit and sorry my friend im not really that good with audio terms, the wiim will be the source for my speakers, i thought that's how it was usually said, my bad.

It'll go like this :
PC -> Wiim -> Speakers

with wiim acting as a DAC and AMP for the speakers

oh and i just checked, a bit, if i just get an spdif to usb converter and just plug it in, won't it be the same? Like, it's digital to digital and even cheapo D2D converters don't seem to have any issues as far as I know. So in that sense, would it not be possible to connect to my PC with that? hmmm this seems like a revelation lol i wonder if there will be any other complications arising from the things being kind of mismatched, wiim being a tv/non-pc streamer amp and dac that is

 

[dlaloum]

yeah that's what im saying, the hdmi input for pc is only for the display end, there's not point connecting the wiim to my gpu lmao

and sadly no i dont have those other connections so i'll have to use analog

That's why i was basically forced to look at pc dacs like the topping ones

thank you for the answer!

Are you looking to INPUT an Audio Stream from the Wiim to the PC?
and if so why? what are you trying to do / achieve?
PC DAC's are OUTPUT only - if you want INPUT you need either a digital input, or an analog input via an ADC (not a DAC)

Just trying to confirm that we are not talking at cross purposes!

 

[Jiraya369]

Are you looking to INPUT an Audio Stream from the Wiim to the PC?
and if so why? what are you trying to do / achieve?
PC DAC's are OUTPUT only - if you want INPUT you need either a digital input, or an analog input via an ADC (not a DAC)

Just trying to confirm that we are not talking at cross purposes!

i want to play sounds from my pc lol

 

[dlaloum]

i want to play sounds from my pc lol

OK so OUTPUT from PC to INPUT of WiiM.

Does your PC have an available (unused) HDMI output port?

HDMI supports pretty much all the current audio formats...

You need to verify that your operating system (Windows? Linux? MacOS?) has the necessary drivers to transmit audio over that HDMI connection.

Unless your PC is more than 15 years old, it is pretty much guaranteed that it has the ability to send Audio over HDMI... as long as the right software drivers have been loaded.

 

[Jiraya369]

OK so OUTPUT from PC to INPUT of WiiM.

Does your PC have an available (unused) HDMI output port?

HDMI supports pretty much all the current audio formats...

You need to verify that your operating system (Windows? Linux? MacOS?) has the necessary drivers to transmit audio over that HDMI connection.

Unless your PC is more than 15 years old, it is pretty much guaranteed that it has the ability to send Audio over HDMI... as long as the right software drivers have been loaded.

i mean hdmi can output audio format and my laptop's hdmi cable is there but is it not only for video output?

And i'm pretty sure windows doesnt have audio out via hdmi. Perhaps one could do an HDMI to USB-C converted kind of wacky play but idk man i feel like dumping all that money in an amp/dac thing without knowing at all if it's gonna work is too risky.

Besides, im gonna get a sub later on. I saw some blokes on ASR talking about using friggin 500 dollar minidsp interfaces and stuff for bass management and now i feel like it's best to not have a sub if it's this much of a pain on pc
i mean, the sub im looking at, the RSL Speedwoofer 10e has its own bass management thing but idk if it'll high pass the speaker output as well.

 

[olds1959special]

My subs:

Dynaudio BM9S
ELAC SUB1010
Klipsch R-SW121
KRK S10
Velodyne MiniVee 8

They all sound good but the Velodyne has a slight self-noise issue. Not in the output of the crossover, just the unit itself. It’s not that loud but enough to annoy me.

 

[dlaloum]

i mean hdmi can output audio format and my laptop's hdmi cable is there but is it not only for video output?

And i'm pretty sure windows doesnt have audio out via hdmi. Perhaps one could do an HDMI to USB-C converted kind of wacky play but idk man i feel like dumping all that money in an amp/dac thing without knowing at all if it's gonna work is too risky.

Besides, im gonna get a sub later on. I saw some blokes on ASR talking about using friggin 500 dollar minidsp interfaces and stuff for bass management and now i feel like it's best to not have a sub if it's this much of a pain on pc
i mean, the sub im looking at, the RSL Speedwoofer 10e has its own bass management thing but idk if it'll high pass the speaker output as well.

Nope HDMI carries both audio and video - and can be used for Audio alone if needed (as in your case!)

You should check your windows Audio settings... when you plug the HDMI into a recognised device (they do a handshake and exchange capabilities data) - then the WiiM should appear as an Audio output option which you can select.

On my Windows setup, my receiver appears as an Audio output option.

(but it won't appear as an option until you have connected them together, and they are both turned on... so it can handshake and they can recognise each other)

 

[dlaloum]

i mean hdmi can output audio format and my laptop's hdmi cable is there but is it not only for video output?

And i'm pretty sure windows doesnt have audio out via hdmi. Perhaps one could do an HDMI to USB-C converted kind of wacky play but idk man i feel like dumping all that money in an amp/dac thing without knowing at all if it's gonna work is too risky.

Besides, im gonna get a sub later on. I saw some blokes on ASR talking about using friggin 500 dollar minidsp interfaces and stuff for bass management and now i feel like it's best to not have a sub if it's this much of a pain on pc
i mean, the sub im looking at, the RSL Speedwoofer 10e has its own bass management thing but idk if it'll high pass the speaker output as well.

Here is how the HDMI output comes up on my system after the receiver is connected (after a left click on the taskbar speaker icon, then a click on the select a sound output icon) :

"This is the way..."

 

[Jiraya369]

Here is how the HDMI output comes up on my system after the receiver is connected (after a left click on the taskbar speaker icon, then a click on the select a sound output icon) :


View attachment 487455

"This is the way..."

hot dayum if it does indeed work like that then ig the wiim amp pro is indeed the way to go....!!!!!

 

[Waxx]

A lot also depends on the function, but an even low distortion response in room with low decay and group delay is what you're looking for. How to get there is not that easy and does not ony depends on the subwoofer itself like said. I prefer big sealed or TL's these days, altough aperiodic ported or ripole/dipole can also sound great when executed right (that's the hard part). And no, you don't need a very expensive driver for that, i made great subs with relative cheap drivers from Monacor and Dayton in the past. My own actual (diy) subs use Scanspeak and Peerless drivers altough, but also a lot of dsp.

 

[jfburk]

that's exactly what i was thinking after reading answers here and i only was keeping group delay in mind in the beginning for "tightness" but it seems nowadays even that isn't an issue for any respectable sub.
Edit:
It seems people have bad rooms with bad eq'ing skills and that leads to muddy bass which they call "not musical"
thanks for the awesome answer!

Yes, and there's no reason to consider SVS subs sub-par (no pun intended). I've worked in post production for 25 years and had at least 8 different SVS subs in different systems at different times, and they've always delivered a lot of bang for the buck. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if it fit my requirements and budget.

But if you want the most for your money, definitely look for second-hand options (Facebook Marketplace and AVS forum are my favorite places to get good deals). My home system has four subs, and I'm constantly on the lookout for an upgrade. Just be vigilant and patient.

Also, I highly recommend the Earl Geddes method of tuning.

Two Great Articles on Multiple Subwoofers by Dr. Earl Geddes

I have written before on the absolute necessity of multiple subwoofers for high-fidelity reproduction of modal region frequencies in a hom...

seriousaudioblog.blogspot.com

 

[Chrispy]

My subs:

Dynaudio BM9S
ELAC SUB1010
Klipsch R-SW121
KRK S10
Velodyne MiniVee 8

They all sound good but the Velodyne has a slight self-noise issue. Not in the output of the crossover, just the unit itself. It’s not that loud but enough to annoy me.

Some sort of resonance or port chuff or ?

 

[olds1959special]

Some sort of resonance or port chuff or ?

No just a little hum when it's on.