Curious about subwoofer/low frequency "tightness"/musicality. What does it even mean? What do YOU look for?

[RexrothPigeon]

OP seems to be enjoying storytime, so why not? It's not like there's much else to say about the original question.

signal:noise

 

[dlaloum]

yk thanks for being a real one, i was also thinking the same thing, the benefits of having a sub far outweigh the cons of a "non musical" one. Yeah it's a pain getting it to sound good but at least it will, and as i love bass, any low end thump is better than none

Old adage... "best is the enemy of good"...

 

[Jiraya369]

Old adage... "best is the enemy of good"...

wise words indeed!!

 

[olds1959special]

A subwoofer is a subwoofer and it doesn’t matter as much what the sound quality is like because if it produces low bass it’s going to sound more or less the same as another subwoofer, ime.

 

[Sokel]

signal:noise

Since when fun is noise?
The moment you take out good time and fun out of this hobby is better to get to some other one.

 

[mhardy6647]

Old adage... "best is the enemy of good"...

Which leaves poor old comparative better right out in the cold!


Similarly, this is why one of my many mottoes is strive for mediocrity.
For some of us... it's a stretch goal.

 

[Oddball]

Oh, lets say low single digits. That's reasonable, and pretty easy to get if the subs are operating well below their limits. Let's say a sub you're considering produces 15% THD at 20hz 120db in CEA 2010 tests, but in your use you would never exceed 100db, so for your application it's probably going to have fairly negligible distortion. Make sense? Most reputable subs have low distortion unless you throttle them, so pick a sub you won't have to throttle to hit your specific desired spls.

Right - and how many do 120dB at 20hz?

@olds1959special - its like saying that tofu and beef taste the same. Perhaps to some...

 

[olds1959special]

Right - and how many do 120dB at 20hz?

@olds1959special - its like saying that tofu and beef taste the same. Perhaps to some...

I unplugged an RCA while my sub was in auto in mode and it made a super loud buzz/hum, but didn’t break fortunately. The gain was only turned up to 9 o clock.

 

[Oddball]

I unplugged an RCA while my sub was in auto in mode and it made a super loud buzz/hum, but didn’t break fortunately. The gain was only turned up to 9 o clock.

Right, just as it was supposed to be? Handle gear with care and you won't need to experience that.

 

[olds1959special]

Right, just as it was supposed to be? Handle gear with care and you won't need to experience that.

I usually do, but I was feeling a bit lazy, impulsive and rushed all at the same time and thought maybe I could get away with it. Lol. I was really panicking while the buzz was happening trying to figure out how to turn it off and just had to go down to flip the switch which took a minute.

I’ve had RCA cables sometimes just fall out so I often tighten them with pliers.

 

[Philbo King]

Curious, what gear/setup do you have that avoids this "ringing" from typical recordings?

My speakers are JBL 308mkii which are effective down to 40 Hz (i.e., no subs). More importantly, I have 12 2'x4' absorber panels spaced off the wall by a distance equal to their depth, and 2 large sofas and a loveseat strategically set in strong bass node areas that are pretty effective in soaking up bass. This in a room 32'x18'x9' high.

It would require 2x the absorption to extend that to 20Hz but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. It is a recording studio, not a home theater, and I don't use bass as a special effect.

 

[jfburk]

I've been researching subs and i've been learning more and more, at first I thought i'd be happy with just a specified loudness at 20 hz, meaning it goes as deep as i'd want it to. But as i looked more and more I started seeing differing opinions on stuff

I see people talking about things in the title all the time and dismissing ported subwoofers or SVS subwoofers because they're "laggy" and sound "horrible". But then these same people go ahead and say that their speakers are far tighter. How is that the case? If we even take a look at the Blade Two Meta and Erin's group delay measurements, it measures worse than a 300 dollar RSL Speedwoofer 10e under 70 hz (Based on audioholics's measurements). Or if we look at something like the Genelec 8331A, it's just worse under 100 hz altogether.

Then there's some ported subs like the Klipsch RP-1600SW, it puts out group delay measurements that embarrasses most sealed subs. So at that point, i don't think a Genelec sub is really putting out anything better or worse, especially at these frequencies under 100 hz where IMO as long as the sound isn't completely easily horrible in terms of compression and distortion, it doesn't matter THAT much I think.

I'd like some insight into this. What do YOU guys think of/look for in a sub? A decent loudness capability that matches your room size/preferences alongside less than 20 ms group delay at less than 70 hz ought to be more than good enough I think.

Think of a subwoofer as a motor to move air. The key questions are how low can it go, how loud, and with how much distortion. But in the end, it's a piston, moving back and forth at specific frequencies.

So if you think about it that way, you can see how absurd it is to talk about a subwoofer being "tight" or "loose". What could that possibly mean? If I feed a 50Hz tone to a "loose" subwoofer, what does that mean? It either plays out a tone at 50Hz, or it doesn't.

Everything people think of for "tight" or "loose" is room modes, decay, and other acoustic irregularities.

I would even suggest that you could take any two subwoofers and put them in an an open field and they'll sound identical as long as they are within their capabilities. So a $5,000 JL sub will sound the same as a $250 Klipsch sub if they're both playing within their capabilities, like a 60Hz tone at 90db. But a 15Hz tone at 110db would destroy the Klipsch sub, while the JL might still sound good.

So get a sub that goes as low as you want, as loud as you want, with the distortion level that you want. And get two or more subs, properly placed and tuned, for optimal bass in a room.

 

[Chrispy]

My speakers are JBL 308mkii which are effective down to 40 Hz (i.e., no subs). More importantly, I have 12 2'x4' absorber panels spaced off the wall by a distance equal to their depth, and 2 large sofas and a loveseat strategically set in strong bass node areas that are pretty effective in soaking up bass. This in a room 32'x18'x9' high.

It would require 2x the absorption to extend that to 20Hz but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. It is a recording studio, not a home theater, and I don't use bass as a special effect.

Do you have measurements pre and post your room treatment? Would be curious to see....

 

[Jiraya369]

Think of a subwoofer as a motor to move air. The key questions are how low can it go, how loud, and with how much distortion. But in the end, it's a piston, moving back and forth at specific frequencies.

So if you think about it that way, you can see how absurd it is to talk about a subwoofer being "tight" or "loose". What could that possibly mean? If I feed a 50Hz tone to a "loose" subwoofer, what does that mean? It either plays out a tone at 50Hz, or it doesn't.

Everything people think of for "tight" or "loose" is room modes, decay, and other acoustic irregularities.

I would even suggest that you could take any two subwoofers and put them in an an open field and they'll sound identical as long as they are within their capabilities. So a $5,000 JL sub will sound the same as a $250 Klipsch sub if they're both playing within their capabilities, like a 60Hz tone at 90db. But a 15Hz tone at 110db would destroy the Klipsch sub, while the JL might still sound good.

So get a sub that goes as low as you want, as loud as you want, with the distortion level that you want. And get two or more subs, properly placed and tuned, for optimal bass in a room.

that's exactly what i was thinking after reading answers here and i only was keeping group delay in mind in the beginning for "tightness" but it seems nowadays even that isn't an issue for any respectable sub.
Edit:
It seems people have bad rooms with bad eq'ing skills and that leads to muddy bass which they call "not musical"
thanks for the awesome answer!

 

[Chrispy]

It seems people have bad rooms with bad eq'ing skills and that leads to muddy bass which they call "not musical"
thanks for the awesome answer!

Or just gear that can't provide a crossover or any adjustment for delay....let alone crossover point or sub/speaker location, etc.

 

[dlaloum]

@olds1959special - its like saying that tofu and beef taste the same. Perhaps to some...

Both taste like chicken?

 

[dualazmak]

Or just gear that can't provide a crossover or any adjustment for delay....let alone crossover point or sub/speaker location, etc.

Yes, fully agree, as I pointed in my post #46.

 

[Chrispy]

Both taste like chicken?

LOL

 

[Jiraya369]

Or just gear that can't provide a crossover or any adjustment for delay....let alone crossover point or sub/speaker location, etc.

hmmm im sorry but im confused, what do you mean? can you explain? I thought crossover meant the point at which the sub starts playing instead of the speaker, what does that mean for delay or location?

 

[Adis]

(...)What do YOU guys think of/look for in a sub? (...)

One that hits 132 dB SPL where I sit with one tenth of its rated RMS power +-3 dB 20-120 Hz , that sub's for me...