CSS Criton 1TD-X Kit Speaker Review

[tw 2022]

Yeah I don't feel this is the best value for DIY. I expected better from the tweeter, especially considering that they're pretty expensive tweeters. Little bored of the typical two ways in the DIY world, once you've heard one like this you've kinda heard them all, typical mid range bloom on the non-waveguided tweeter, looks like the cabinet edges are causing problems too.

Agreed.. Shucks.. Dennis Murphy will sell you something better than that already assembled at about the same price ( he's bringing back the ceramic (not so) mini)....

 

[droid2000]

It is $775 without the cabinet, $935 with the MDF flat-pack.

For that reason I think it is actually poor value. A pair of Revel M16 is $1000, and have regularly dropped to $700. I feel if CSS had included a waveguide on the tweeter it would elevate this kit enough to justify the price.

M16's have no bass. CSS goes 15HZ deeper.

 

[TulseLuper]

M16's have no bass. CSS goes 15HZ deeper.

Not much discussion on this. F3 on the CSS appears to be just below 50Hz (and with a decently smooth roll off), making it maybe not the worst value for those who will not use subs.

 

[tomtoo]

You have a point there.

A little "hot" tweeter can be nice at a lower volume, together with a little increased bass then. Loudness functionality, roughly. But it's probably not the volume you normally listen to, or so it is? We may listen in slightly different ways.

OT
By the way a traditional loudness function on an amplifier is something I like. Loudness or not is discussed in this thread:

Should you use Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation?

I know many are familiar with the Fletcher-Munson or equal loudness curves. In a nutshell: “The Fletcher Munson Curve contains a set of graphs that show that when you listen to music at a lower volume, mid-range frequencies will be sound more prominent, whereas high and low frequencies will be...

audiosciencereview.com

Thats not realy a hot tweeter, it starts getting a littel louder on axis over 12k thats in the harmonics region of instruments, away from the fundamentals. If this would be at 2 to 8k it would be a hot tweeter, but not so far up in frequence . People should test this. From my point of view thats absolutly in the region of personal taste. Not good to say the tweeter is hot.

 

[DanielT]

Thats not realy a hot tweeter, it starts getting a littel louder on axis over 12k thats in the harmonics region of instruments, away from the fundamentals. If this would be at 2 to 8k it would be a hot tweeter, but not so far up in frequence . People should test this. From my point of view thats absolutly in the region of personal taste. Not good to say the tweeter is hot.

Maybe a little warm?
Even higher in frequency we old farts (I include myself in that category nowadays) don't need to worry so much. Around 16-17 kHz and above that is to say. It's not something we, or many of us, can hear anymore.

OT:
It's a bit of an irony. I remember when I was a young teenager listening to the FM radio and recording that music on cassette tapes. In Sweden (perhaps it is the same in other countries?) everything above 15 kHz is cut off on the FM band. Then I could hear above 15 kHz. Now with streaming so...you get the picture...

 

[tomtoo]

Maybe a little warm?
Even higher in frequency we old farts (I include myself in that category nowadays) don't need to worry so much. Around 16-17 kHz and above that is to say. It's not something we, or many of us, can hear anymore.

OT:
It's a bit of an irony. I remember when I was a young teenager listening to the FM radio and recording that music on cassette tapes. In Sweden (perhaps it is the same in other countries?) everything above 15 kHz is cut off on the FM band. Then I could hear above 15 kHz. Now with streaming so...you get the picture...

We tend to overestimate how high a tone realy is, and how much influence such high frequences realy have. Yes in germany FM was also only going up to 15khz. And not many thought about missing highs in FM. Up there the air gets very thin.

 

[dasdoing]

Howdy, I went back to peek in Mr. Toole's book to ensure I use the same terms if possible and hopefully use them correctly... mainly just to clarify something I said earlier. In the end the main point was about smartly applying PEQ and not about getting the terminology hammered out.

1st reflections are categorized as quite distinct from reverberation. 1st reflections are a fairly simple reflection. Reverb, being made up of many non-distinct and later arriving reflections is not the same thing. The 1st reflections are well before reverb.(and echo as mentioned by @PeteL is different from reverb, as it would be distinct vs diffuse - so I should not have said reverb is an echo effect.)

So @dasdoing the reason for calling them 1st reflections (and not 'natural reverb') is to designate them as being of particular difference from late reflections and the diffusion made up of many reflections which is 'reverb/reverberation'. 1st reflections are not diffuse nor are they perceptively distinct - they are something else.

These 1st reflections are the basis for the PIR and the actual IR, the overall tonality, sense realism, speech intelligibility and they are very involved in the Harman score calculation and the overall essence of why a good off axis response is desired to engineer a subjectively good speaker.
They arrive very quickly 2ms-15ms and are very closely merged with the directsound. Thus they are a huge factor in the overall sound quality.
Yes, indeed they are less important than the direct sound field but still so meaningful they are heavily involved in good execution of a domestic speaker design.

Early Reflections(what is being assessed in the SPIN and Klipple data)
Late Reflections (not considered in the SPIN)
Reverberation/Reverb (not considered in the SPIN)
Echo (not considered in the SPIN of course)
All are different aspects of the sound field. But not all are perceivable in all spaces.

So, for now I stand by what I essentially originally stated after-all.(except reverb is not an echo, or maybe it is true to say it is essentially a collage of echoes - but they certainly need different names as one is diffuse:reverb and one is not:echo)
Anyway, we are not talking about reverberation when talking about the data from the Spins and the Klipple.

When we look at the Spins and off axis response, we are not thinking in terms of reverb/reverberations but in terms of getting reasonably accurate & matching off axis responses in order to have high quality 1st/early reflections. What happens after that is something else.

Anyways, @dasdoing per eqing the CSS. The off axis sound, that will provide the energy of the 1st reflections, must be considered when you make your analysis. I would not think boosting 2000-4000hrz is going to be best due to the off axis situation, which is what I was trying to communicate. This is in a 'typical domestic room', if you have extensive treatments and other situational anomalies then all bets are off of course.

@dasdoing I thought this is a good definition of Reverb, which again is not really what the 1st/early reflections are.
" Reverberation, is the persistence of sound after it has been stopped due to multiple reflections from surfaces such as furniture, people, air, etc., within a closed surface. These reflections build up with each reflection and decay gradually as they are absorbed by the surfaces of objects in the enclosed space."

Toole in his book defines it as
"(reverberation)consists of sounds... that are reflected many times from many surfaces, penetrating to all parts of the room, gradually decaying in amplitude with time

I understand. would be intresting to AB this kind of situation. it's probably even more complicated than that, as there will be cancelation when direct and first interact.
anyways, I just prefer to eliminate the problem pq treating my room hehe

 

[dasdoing]

Thats not realy a hot tweeter, it starts getting a littel louder on axis over 12k thats in the harmonics region of instruments, away from the fundamentals. If this would be at 2 to 8k it would be a hot tweeter, but not so far up in frequence . People should test this. From my point of view thats absolutly in the region of personal taste. Not good to say the tweeter is hot.

it will manly effect "silabance"

 

[beagleman]

I have heard the

CSS Criton 1TD version​

and it sounded quite good, in fact close to great to me. but it used the cheaper tweeter, that I think almost measures better overall, and is a good bit cheaper overall??

 

[PeteL]

Well known directivity issue, as many others have commented here!
A "better" direct radiator tweeter is not a fix, though a wider diameter one crossed lower would help.
Imo convenience is the only excuse for such common place and popular designs.

Wondering how many of those "many others that have commented here" heard this speaker. Me what I read is that the one who did recommends it.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Wondering how many of those "many others that have commented here" heard this speaker.

My ears are worse than a Klippel.

 

[PeteL]

My ears are worse than a Klippel.

Sure but can you say for sure from these measurments that these speakers sound bad to peoples ears?

 

[sejarzo]

Not much discussion on this. F3 on the CSS appears to be just below 50Hz (and with a decently smooth roll off), making it maybe not the worst value for those who will not use subs.

That's the opinion of a couple of the more popular YouTube reviewers--they hold that CSS speakers in general have better low end response than similarly sized bookshelf speakers.

 

[tomtoo]

Sure but can you say for sure from these measurments that these speakers sound bad to peoples ears?

I trust amir and the measurements. Both tell me the speakers sound ok. There where a lot more expensive more worse.

 

[Toni Mas]

F

Sure but can you say for sure from these measurments that these speakers sound bad to peoples ears?

Considering the predicted in room response, it will sound bright, as Amir also experienced. Though if used in strict near field conditions, listenning at 1-2m might be ok.

 

[Ricardojoa]

So these speakers are bright because of the elevated upper range over 10khz? I really doubt it, considering the off axis dispersion narrows at those ranges. The brightness amirm hearing might be the 2-4khz range which is shown on the horizontal/ vertical contour plot.

 

[Nango]

Looks like a ScaMo15-Design.

 

[sarumbear]

The fully furnished and completed pair is quite costly at $2,350 USD.

Crikey! That’s bad value for money.

 

[Toni Mas]

So these speakers are bright because of the elevated upper range over 10khz? I really doubt it, considering the off axis dispersion narrows at those ranges. The brightness amirm hearing might be the 2-4khz range which is shown on the horizontal/ vertical contour plot.

I dont think the rising response above 10khz is a problem. I agree the problem is the 2 octaves below centered around 4khz. This always sounds tiring for me. Though some like this brightness.
I would try to correct this with dsp, basing the eq on the inroom response at the listenning position, DRC approach, falling target above 2khz, 1 peak eq low Q < 1, -3db at 4khz aprox.

 

[beagleman]

Creative Sound Solutions Criton 1TD v2 Bookshelf Speaker Review

noaudiophile.com

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