Sorry but this also has nothing to see with nearfield measurements. At least with classical nearfield measurements... This is the klippel sauce nearfield method... Not my old book...
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CSS Criton 1TD-X Kit Speaker Review
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I mean to get the full picture of a loudspeaker response you generally need two sets of measurements, nearfield and far field. Near field to get the low frequency response and far to get the mids and highs, in order to get rid of room artifacts. Klippel's is surely the most advanced tool to do this, but you can get by with older and less sophisticated ones. Anyway nearfield and far field are universal concepts. As i said before nearfield is not the best way of getting the response in the upper part of the spectrum. For example the dip in the Css woofer's response around 1.5khz looks like a typical artifact of a nearfield measurements, and would not appear in a far field one.@Toni Mas I think there is a language barrier, i don't understand what you are trying to say, to be honest.
Also the nearfield response of the tweeter is hard to believe and surely different from a farfield one.
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OK but it happened numerous time where Amir's Impression where not directly explained in the measurments.
To me measurments should translate to something that can be heard. If not, it's the measurments that are meaningless.
Besides, @amirm has not recommended the WiiM Mini, so his subjective opinion is ignored in this household.
They are? I thought they are mostly pressed from a CD "master" in the last 25 years or so?
Well, While it's true that in some, not all cases, the same Digital File can be used, it depends on where we put a stop to the definition of "Mastering". To me the action of actually cutting the Lathe is also part of mastering. That's the part that give you the "master" The Lathe. Thinking that there absolutely no audible artefacts to that process is extremely unlikely to me and doesn't match my experience, but sure , there's always someone that will tell you that my experience is not worth anything if it's not Blind Tested, OK, but when measured specs are so far appart, dynamic range, frequency response that have to be corrected by correct by RIAA correction, physical limitations of the stylus AND subjective impression that sonic differences are obvious, not small, well. I think that it maybe have a bit less value than if it was confirmed by bling test, but it has to have at least as much value than a statement like: "I can tell for sure that in a blind test most people could not differentiate these from a pair of KEF R3 or Focal Chorus 806. Most people can't tell the difference between de-clicked LP, MP3 and CD" Without blind test data to demonstrate that.
DanielT
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But it has rounded baffle corners. It has (very likely can have) significance ( or at least a little) for the FR.However, the directivity problems are the same.Creative Sound Solutions Criton 1TD v2 Bookshelf Speaker Review
noaudiophile.com
Read about and heard these...............
As an example of such details that can create the sound/FR are for example flush mounted tweeters or not. That assembly technique can have a big impact. See attached pictures. Video about it below, so when it comes to tweeters it's clear that it's the details that matter.
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Yes! This was considered a decent speaker but the upgraded tweeter got raves from many. When faced with upgrading the tweeter first to the X or upgrading the crossover, the answer (I believe from CSS themselves) was to buy the better tweeter.
I bought the X version with a birch flatpack for $881 delivered with Black Friday pricing in late 2021. I enjoy the speakers and whether it would be easy to find better speakers for the same or less isn't really something I lose sleep over. The voicing is fine and if you search for the YouTube reviews you will find some people who compare the sound to much more expensive speakers. I like mine and that is all that matters to me.
Those Sierra LX speakers measured great. But they cost 50% more than a CSS kit, and with a 50Hz F3, you're gonna also need to spend $500+ on a subwoofer to fill in the missing sound. So you're essentially comparing a $2000+ speaker system to speakers that cost less than $1000. That proves the whole DIY value proposition.
Turns out I had to buy a sub anyways to fill a null. I should have used REW Room Simulator *before* I bought speakers. It perfectly predicted the null
I would have gone with different speakers, like the Sierra's, had I known that beforehand.Good point about the resale. Gonna be harder to sell kit speakers.
The finished CSS speakers only come with the upgraded crossovers which cost a lot more. More competition at that price.
An interesting side note that I haven't seen mentioned here is that you can play with the tube length to tune the bass to your liking. I have not done that but a true DIYer would have a ball.
SuicideSquid
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I voted great but now that I see that the price was misleading and getting this with a veneered cabinet brings the price over $1,000 per pair, I'd drop my vote to "good". I hope amir updates the review, as the listed price is $770 without cabinets, and $934 with unfinished MDF flatpack.
For those interested, life and Low-Frequency Loudspeaker Assessment by Nearfield Sound-Pressure Measurement before Klippel...
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Don't know about that, based on the Klippel estimated in-room responses.
The Sierra LX continues to rise to an 83 dB SPL peak of 60 Hz before it rolls off per Ascend's Klippel estimated in-room response, crossing the 80 db SPL line at roughly 46 Hz.
The CSS per Amir's Klippel hit an 83 dB peak around 97 Hz with a slower roll off to 80 db SPL right at 50 Hz.
My guess is that there would be very little difference between these two in the audible response from 50-100 Hz.
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The price for a pair should probably be 1050, flatpack in oak. (https://www.css-audio.com/online-store/CSS-Criton-1TD-X-Kit-Pair-p221163830) Yepp, since China knows how to copy cat western commerce, DIY appears to be less worthwhile.
I think the brightness originates in the widening of the dispersion in the treble. The discontinuities may contribute to that impression by taking the mental focus, especially when evaluating the speakers.
No chuffing, really? From the sharp edges and the small dimensions of the port I would expect otherwise. Of course chuffing gets masked by other content of the program, but not with every program.
I agree that the design as such is, on the surface, quite ordinary so that it doesn't exactly define DIY's virtues. At least it needs e/q ;-) If the sound power output is as hefty as described it's fine me thinks.
Ricardojoa
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Well china no longer copy buy decided to make those drivers instead.
Honestly, these speakers are indeed a bit too steep and i dont get why the use of thos port. They are simply unacceptable at that price range.
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I would tend to agree with that. As I was using the Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX for comparison, and noting that its slightly more expensive ribbon tweeter sibling Sierra-2EX also uses a flush mounted tweeter without a wave guide, I was kind of surprised that their cheapest Sierra line model, which came out in 2008 I think, has a waveguide (though not a huge/deep one.) It's $898 for a pair, and while their measurements are all "pre-Klippel era" it seems to perform pretty well on what measurements they do show.
Perhaps they concluded the performance of the LX tweeter in some way outweighs the benefit of a waveguide for most buyers?
SIERRA-1 PAIR
Our World-Renowned Reference Monitor Featuring our Exclusive Low Resonance Layered Bamboo Cabinet! "Innovation, performance, intensive quality controls and environmental-friendliness all precisely balanced in a truly unique loudspeaker." Over 4 ½ years in development, the Sierra-1 is the...
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Same directivity problem, with narrowing response from 1khz up, widening when the tweeter starts to dominate and narrowing again in the top octave. Result is the typical tweeter bloom which is part of the dna of any similar design...
I guess we are on the same page with some of the Klippel measurements and how they relate to the norm in loudspeaker measurement - I use old Clio. Maybe the 'very' near field sweep would be useful as for finding the dome or cone behavior without the cabinet induced effects like Baffle Step or diffraction. One of my wishes is to actually see a set of anechoic measurement of separate drivers not the useless near field drivers data, so we could take a close look at the type of x-overs and driver behavior with the crossover used. I liked what Erin once did with the data when measured DIY kits from Dayton so people were able to redesign the x-overs and make proper speakers.
Birch you say? Do you have a picture?
The engineering, and in particular the mathematics used took a big leap forward once computational power exploded, motivating the development of the field. I cannot look deep behind the curtain, but I don't see any grounds for doubt about the correctness of the calculations so far. My starting point here is, that given a full 3D sound field amplitude and phase wise at a certain point in time the further development of that sound field it entirely determined by well established physics.
The Klippel apperatus seeks out to probe the sound field to some success. Hence given modern computers and strong numerical algorithms one can predict the sound field everywhere at any time in a virtual free field environment.
The idea isn't that new. Even in the 80s of the last century a similar perspective was taken when developing so called constant directivity waveguides.
The evaluation of an estimated 'predicted in room sound field' of the CEA 2034 standard is a completely different story, though.
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I guess I did a little too much kayaking last summer. They never got stained!
You can see residual wood glue in the pictures but it is more visible in the jpgs than with the naked eye. My S21 often sees things that I don't. There was another comment concerning the difficulty in assembling the wood. I am a complete novice at woodworking and found the box went together fairly easily. The only thing I noticed when finished was a dimple caused by the pressure on the side of one of the speakers as I had over-cranked one of the clamps to hold the wood in place while gluing. As I mentioned I am a complete novice working in wood. I don't think the little dimple is going to bother me once the cabinet is sanded and finished. It's unlikely anyone else will know it is there.
I am unsure if I will do the staining and finishing as there is a man up the road from me who does wood refinishing. I haven't brought one to him for an estimate. I also felt from the get go that if I don't like the way the stain comes out I can always do veneer as a plan B. My daughter's father-in-law is about to retire and has offered to help me learn how to veneer. My problem with doing veneer on my own without some help is that I tend to get hung up in an attempt to reach perfection. I would rather wield a soldering iron and hone my electronic diagnosis skills rather than learn woodworking.
I'm 71, work half time and have other things to do like exercise and yardwork.
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Marty, I ended up with two detached retinas after cataract surgery and thus would also get hung up on doing a perfect job that is truly impossible with my vision limitations. I sent the pictures of the Tritons the guy on usaudiomart offered to sell me for $500 to several local cabinet shops, asking them for ballpark estimates on fixing the mismatch on the sides then finishing them in veneer. Over a month has passed with no reply. I don't know any local hobby woodworker to ask. In any case, the seller has pulled his ad, then sent me an email stating that his cat pawed the tweeters and ruined them. What a waste.
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