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Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

So a question: what exactly makes the 2502 sound so dynamic? Is it the high level of power, the class D type of application or perhaps both?

The reason im asking is because, my 2502 will soon be on sub duty, and I want what it did to my stereo setup, but higher quality.

If its the power, could I expect the same experience with an ab amplifier at same output?

Or, is it the class D design that gives me this and can expect same dynamics with a say purify? And, if its both would I need to aim for the same or close output level as the crown?

I hope im making any sense lol

Tia

Class D amps are not unusually dynamic, it's just that the XLS-2502 brings an excess of power to most home audio settings.

For your project, I recommend going with the Speakon outputs on the XLS-2502. If you can fit Speakon terminals to your DIY subwoofer enclosures, I would go that route as well.

Perhaps worthy of mention is I believe it was stated earlier in this discussion that Crown's Drivecore DSP samples the input at 48 kHz with the output being 60 samples behind, which works out to a 1.25ms delay. I've not found this to be imperceptible if the subwoofers are fairly near the mains (as in my case), but it may be worth noting for others.

Regarding Purifi, I used the XLS-2502 to get this system sorted, but swapped it from mains to subwoofer duty after making the jump to Purifi's largest 2nd Gen Eigentakt 1ET9040BA monoblocks with VTV's vacuum tube buffers. The power is similar to the XLS-2502, but these are a definite upgrade and audibly indistinguishable from class AB amplifiers.
 
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So a question: what exactly makes the 2502 sound so dynamic? Is it the high level of power, the class D type of application or perhaps both?

The reason im asking is because, my 2502 will soon be on sub duty, and I want what it did to my stereo setup, but higher quality.

If its the power, could I expect the same experience with an ab amplifier at same output?

Or, is it the class D design that gives me this and can expect same dynamics with a say purify? And, if its both would I need to aim for the same or close output level as the crown?

I hope im making any sense lol

Tia
Well, first of all you are asking about a subjective response to the XLS2502... but the criteria are objective measurements -so everyone is going to be guessing!

Some guesses may be more educated than others though!

My own comments on this family of amps and the genres (Class D and Class AB).

The Class D amps tend to be powered by regulated switching power supplies... so the power supply feed is fixed at a specific value, and that in turn defines the max output capabilities of the amp.

Most AB amps have traditionaly "linear" unregulated power supplies - their continuous max capabilities are often very different from their transient/short term peak capabilities - then often have substantial headroom above and beyond the continuous ratings.

For use as full frequency range amps, often the thing that determines dynamic capabilities will be that "Peak" capability (and to some degree the length of that peak).

So we often need to consider continuous ratings on Class D amps vs peak ratings on Class AB amps - yes they arent apples and apples.... but nearby equivalents. (Class AB amps with fully regulated power supplies, also show the same property of having little headroom above the continuous ratings).

So you probably need to look for amps with outputs that are relatively similar (ie: in the 350W to 500W @8ohm)

The other thing to watch out for, is how the amp handles difficult loads, low impedance, phase angles on speakers - for the XLS series those factors are inconsequential, indicated by the 2ohm rating of 1200W....
So both the power supply can provide the required current for difficult loads, and the power amp circuits can output stablely into loads of 2ohm (1ohm bridged!).

You may not need the 350W to 500W @8ohm rating, your speakers may need more of the 2Ohm or 1ohm stable rating!

So my suggestion would be to start out by looking for amps that are rated at 1ohm or 2ohm - and then consider the total power output (which can be considered as a dynamic range factor in combination with your speakers SPL specs).

The designer of the speakers I have (Anthony Gallo) used to demo them at audio shows with a Spectron Musician III amp, a class D design capable of 500w@8ohm and doubling down all the way to around 1ohm - very similar to the Crown XLS... Sadly the designer of that amp died way too young, and the brand then disappeared.
But when looking around for an amp with similar capabilities the XLS2500 stood out as being very similar... and fantastic value at the time (I purchased 2 for US$250 each).

Today there are more options/alternatives.... but what aspect of the XLS performance is critical to YOUR usage is difficult to tell from "out here"...

Still the XLS series remains an economical and high value option - especially out on the used market.

The XLS2500/2502 with 440W continuous is a real powerhouse....
 
So a question: what exactly makes the 2502 sound so dynamic? Is it the high level of power, the class D type of application or perhaps both?

The reason im asking is because, my 2502 will soon be on sub duty, and I want what it did to my stereo setup, but higher quality.

If its the power, could I expect the same experience with an ab amplifier at same output?

Or, is it the class D design that gives me this and can expect same dynamics with a say purify? And, if its both would I need to aim for the same or close output level as the crown?

I hope im making any sense lol

Tia
P.S. My own subjective auditioning, comparing the XLS to my vintage Quad 606 and 707 amps, showed results that were subjectively indistinguishable from each other.... even though the XLS2500 is 440W@8ohm/1200W@2ohm, where the Quads are 135W@8ohm/85W@2ohm or peak 170W@8ohm/180W@2ohm...

Other amps not rated at 2ohm coped very badly with my speakers and resulted in audibly degraded results...

But the Crown and Quad amps sounded very similar - indicating that the XLS output was probably excessive for my use! - but that the stability and capabilities at 2 ohm were key.

Lots of amps are very capable at 8 ohm, but cannot handle difficult loads / impedances
 
Class D amps are not unusually dynamic,
I don't think you understand what "dynamic" means. Amplifiers are linear and the dynamics don't get compressed/reduced unless you push an amp into clipping. And then it's heard as distortion rather than compression.

The real dynamics come from the recording. Or if it's so quiet that you can't hear the quiet parts, you aren't hearing the full dynamic range.

which works out to a 1.25ms delay.
The speed of sound is about 1ft per millisecond and 100Hz has a wavelength of about 10 feet so it should usually be insignificant.
 
Well, first of all you are asking about a subjective response to the XLS2502... but the criteria are objective measurements -so everyone is going to be guessing!

Some guesses may be more educated than others though!

My own comments on this family of amps and the genres (Class D and Class AB).

The Class D amps tend to be powered by regulated switching power supplies... so the power supply feed is fixed at a specific value, and that in turn defines the max output capabilities of the amp.

Most AB amps have traditionaly "linear" unregulated power supplies - their continuous max capabilities are often very different from their transient/short term peak capabilities - then often have substantial headroom above and beyond the continuous ratings.

For use as full frequency range amps, often the thing that determines dynamic capabilities will be that "Peak" capability (and to some degree the length of that peak).

So we often need to consider continuous ratings on Class D amps vs peak ratings on Class AB amps - yes they arent apples and apples.... but nearby equivalents. (Class AB amps with fully regulated power supplies, also show the same property of having little headroom above the continuous ratings).

So you probably need to look for amps with outputs that are relatively similar (ie: in the 350W to 500W @8ohm)

The other thing to watch out for, is how the amp handles difficult loads, low impedance, phase angles on speakers - for the XLS series those factors are inconsequential, indicated by the 2ohm rating of 1200W....
So both the power supply can provide the required current for difficult loads, and the power amp circuits can output stablely into loads of 2ohm (1ohm bridged!).

You may not need the 350W to 500W @8ohm rating, your speakers may need more of the 2Ohm or 1ohm stable rating!

So my suggestion would be to start out by looking for amps that are rated at 1ohm or 2ohm - and then consider the total power output (which can be considered as a dynamic range factor in combination with your speakers SPL specs).

The designer of the speakers I have (Anthony Gallo) used to demo them at audio shows with a Spectron Musician III amp, a class D design capable of 500w@8ohm and doubling down all the way to around 1ohm - very similar to the Crown XLS... Sadly the designer of that amp died way too young, and the brand then disappeared.
But when looking around for an amp with similar capabilities the XLS2500 stood out as being very similar... and fantastic value at the time (I purchased 2 for US$250 each).

Today there are more options/alternatives.... but what aspect of the XLS performance is critical to YOUR usage is difficult to tell from "out here"...

Still the XLS series remains an economical and high value option - especially out on the used market.

The XLS2500/2502 with 440W continuous is a real powerhouse....
Thank you very much for your detailed reply, I appreciate it.

I was considering the ncx 500 from buckeye which states 700w into 4 ohm.

Its either that, or get another 2502 and buy a pair of towers, that is a good match for the crowns particular flaws. Been looking and searching but its a bit unclear to me exactly what a good pairing would be. My thoughts have often landed on the hdi 3800. Others mentioned wharfedale 4.4 and of course the maggies.

Basically, I now use my HT for more critical listening, so my stereo listening will be for rocking hard, and casual listening while cooking and such.

Thanks again for your input!!!
 
Thank you very much for your detailed reply, I appreciate it.

I was considering the ncx 500 from buckeye which states 700w into 4 ohm.

Its either that, or get another 2502 and buy a pair of towers, that is a good match for the crowns particular flaws. Been looking and searching but its a bit unclear to me exactly what a good pairing would be. My thoughts have often landed on the hdi 3800. Others mentioned wharfedale 4.4 and of course the maggies.

Basically, I now use my HT for more critical listening, so my stereo listening will be for rocking hard, and casual listening while cooking and such.

Thanks again for your input!!!
I did this exercise about 6 months ago when I replaced my 2 channel system speakers from Aerial Acoustics Model 8 with Revel Salon2.
I moved the Aerial 8s to my HT setup.
They're nice speakers but not as neutral or resolving as the Salon2. That's probably the key. Speakers that are very neutral and resolving are not the best match for the XLS2502. I have 5 of them and tried them with various combos of speakers. Great for subs. Good with speakers like the Aerial 8. Not so great with neutral speakers.
Fwiw, I wouldn't recommend going downward on speaker quality to match a $500 used amp. Even new, they're only $750. I should know. Have bought 8 of them over time. Paid as little as $225.
They're great for subs and not picky HT where you're looking for volume and not reference quality sound.
 
It's probably the power.

Often we need more peak amplifier power than people realize. Amir has a good video on the topic, showing that live music and many individual instruments have sound pressure peaks over 110db-120db.
 
I did this exercise about 6 months ago when I replaced my 2 channel system speakers from Aerial Acoustics Model 8 with Revel Salon2.
I moved the Aerial 8s to my HT setup.
They're nice speakers but not as neutral or resolving as the Salon2. That's probably the key. Speakers that are very neutral and resolving are not the best match for the XLS2502. I have 5 of them and tried them with various combos of speakers. Great for subs. Good with speakers like the Aerial 8. Not so great with neutral speakers.
Fwiw, I wouldn't recommend going downward on speaker quality to match a $500 used amp. Even new, they're only $750. I should know. Have bought 8 of them over time. Paid as little as $225.
They're great for subs and not picky HT where you're looking for volume and not reference quality sound.
The Gallo's I use them with are quite resolving and neutral... and as I stated elsewhere, the Crowns and the Quad amps sounded subjectively indistinguishable.

The only real issues I have seen / heard of being encountered are typically gain matching related, with resulting hiss being an issue - but that can be an issue with any power amp - you do need to gain match!

Others have done DBT tests with them in the past, and like any halfway decent amp, as long as they are working within their (very broad!) performanc envelope, DBT tests have found them identical to more audiophile centric designs (like the Quad amps).

Downsides.... they have fans... in my use I have never heard them, and I use so little power that they may never turn on - others at times have complained about audible fan noise .... I have never experienced this. The aesthetics are pro/pa/commercial rather than bling/audiophile/domestic (and the LED panel on my XLS2500 is a bit bright!)

Upsides: - buy them used on marketplaces where bands and PA users sell their kit... at US$250 they are very very hard to beat. Being designed for pro / pa / live type uses, they are extremely robust... can take a beating and keep going. My set are now approaching 12 years of age... of which their first couple were in pro use (where they took a beating from the scratches on the case) - still running like new... you can expect long service life. (I consider this particularly important for Class D designs, as they are typically NOT repairable... basically entire circuit boards get replaced - effectively the whole amp.... whereas designs like my Quad amps are eminently repairable)
 
From Amir's testing, the Crown XLS2502 seems like it will perform admirably driving a hungry load with a few compromises. You are correct that for big subs, which do well with this type of power, the XLS2502 is not "ruler flat to 5Hz." (Sadly, I was hoping it would do better there too.) FWIW, I have found a precious few AMPS that can reach into the 10-5Hz in a 8/4/2 ohm stable load - period... and at this price point, that number drops to virtually 0. If we want to step above this price point, then there are a few which surface - both current and vintage. Crowns are also suppose to be reliable and built better-than-most but that's just my general impression from hours of reading forums - we each have our favorite "brands!" If you are patient, a used XLS2502 can be had for $350 USD while an open-box is closer to to the $450/500 USD range.

So you ask what a XLS2502 might drive?
  • In addition to the massive wall of subs posted above (WOW, that is SOME setup!!), difficult speaker loads such as Magenpans which hover in the 86-88 dB range at 4 Ohms.
    • Maggie fans don't buy Maggies for efficiency but that's another thread. :)
  • A small array of ButtKickers which impart visceral dynamics to the entire room when installed like below.
    • The BKs are 4 ohm loads each (I measured them) and require 400-1000 Watts per unit to properly drive these heavy motors.
    • Their frequency response is 5-200Hz so the Crown XLS2502 can deliver a reasonable compromise on cost, performance, reliability, availability, ...
    • These BKs are:
      • thermally protected (I've disassembled and see then snap disk) and
      • are harder to destroy b/c the current carrying windings / wire does not move - the floating centered magnetic piston does.
-> https://thebuttkicker.com/buttkicker-lfe/

View attachment 44050View attachment 44051View attachment 44052
Planning to run a XLS2502 for a ButtKicker LFE.

XLS2502 Manual says :

"The PureBand Crossover System provides a variable state Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave filter allowing you to choose a point between 30Hz and 3kHz on standard 1/12th octave centers. Three filter types are available: Low Pass, High Pass and Band Pass"

LFE Manual says :

"Frequency Response: 5 – 200 Hz"

So does this mean that the XLS2502 will not be able to utilize the ButtKicker LFE abilities below 30Hz ?
 
Planning to run a XLS2502 for a ButtKicker LFE.

XLS2502 Manual says :

"The PureBand Crossover System provides a variable state Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave filter allowing you to choose a point between 30Hz and 3kHz on standard 1/12th octave centers. Three filter types are available: Low Pass, High Pass and Band Pass"

LFE Manual says :

"Frequency Response: 5 – 200 Hz"

So does this mean that the XLS2502 will not be able to utilize the ButtKicker LFE abilities below 30Hz ?
Take a look at the measure frequency response in the XLS review - there is a slight dropoff below 20Hz, but we are talking about 1db to 1.5db, and as you tune your bass management that will become a non issue

1763110825606.png
 
...

So does this mean that the XLS2502 will not be able to utilize the ButtKicker LFE abilities below 30Hz ?

No, it means the low pass filter settings of the XLS-2502 are adjustable from 30 Hz to 3 kHz. Therefore, you can limit the highest frequencies that get passed to the Butkicker LFE anywhere from 30 Hz to 3 kHz, although I imagine you will probably limit the Buttkicker to frequencies well under 100 Hz like most subwoofers.
 
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