Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

[Xulonn]

What do you think is the audible difference in the measurements?

Probably not much - in most audiophile applications that are only a bit "above the average" consumer audio fan level, it might actually be difficult to hear diffrences if output is below clipping and the speakers are not sensitive enough to reveal noise with no signal. Just my opinion - and being fairly experienced, but not a true expert, my opinions are often challenged.

 

[DSJR]

I have two sets of (inherited) bridged Crown D-60's plus a singleton stereo D-60 for headphone use (the D-60 used to be a delightful amp if you could get away with 40WPC back then), a couple of control-wheezy IC-150's (one in each system) and an original fugly D-150 on the main system now (no front plate so it stands hidden away with heatsinks facing up). Back in the mid 70's these were high end, considerably 'better' than the far eastern invasion products flooding the UK market and according to Ken Rockwell, they still stack up technically to a very good basic standard and certainly sound transparent enough for me. I still have a DC300A (late 70's mk1.5 with satin front panel, ioc lamps on the front) on the bucket list and get to hear such a vintage example fairly regularly, accepting that say, a Quad 606 derived model (707, 909, QSP, Artera), would possibly be the better newer choice with similar subjective performance (later Quad amps seem pretty good and will drive 4 ohm loads better than the vintage ones ever could)...

 

[Old&intheWay]

The Crown amps I saw 45 - 50 years ago mostly got PA duty. They were tough and loud. Some saw double duty at home and shows.
But did hear some Phase Linear gear in homes. Loud too. Never saw PL rigged up by a band.
All that gear was always cranked. Young ears.
I would be surprised if it sounds better than the XLS series. Too much global negative feedback to get the low THD.

I went to a coworker's house in 1982, he had two Phase Linears and four Bose 901s. All he had for music was 'Dark Side of the Moon'. I asked him if that was all he had to listen to, he told me "that's all I need".

 

[Sal1950]

I went to a coworker's house in 1982, he had two Phase Linears and four Bose 901s. All he had for music was 'Dark Side of the Moon'. I asked him if that was all he had to listen to, he told me "that's all I need".

WOW, what a error! He absolutely needed Wish You Were Here too.

 

[cistercian]

Which model of 801 Matrix do you own? The 801 Matrix II are an easier load than the Matrix III. I owned the II’s and they definitely played loud enough with a 100 watt amp.
Several owners shared that it required 500 - 600 watts to play stupid loud. And the dynamics and slam wake up with this kind of power. The crossovers absorbed a lot of this abuse.
The Matrix III require a powerful amplifier.
Back to your original question, the main difference between the Crown XLS 2000 and 2500 models is rail voltage. Both have twice as many output devices and filter caps as the 1500 series.
I tried the XLS-1500 and the XLS-2000. Both on Thiel C.S.-3.5 speakers. The Thiels have the same rated efficiency as the B&W 801 Matrix II. But played louder and had much larger dynamic swings. Never felt the Thiels needed more than the 1500 could deliver. 801’s might.
I think of the Crown’s like the Behringer amp. Not a SOTA product. But many feel it is as good as you need. Non-sighted double blind testing is needed to see if the orders of magnitude lower noise and distortion available in a SOTA amp is audible.

There is a thread on this site (I can't remember which one) that compared a pedestrian class D amp to a high end one. And the cheap class D
won! The test used the same speakers. I LOLed when I read it because as poor as my amp measures it blows my earlier stuff away. To be fair, my
earlier amps were much less powerful. High power has a quality all its own for stuff like bass hits. I should also add much of the Crowns noise
is concentrated in the upper ranges. And I am deaf above 14.450KC. Who knows, as a teen I might have found my current system intolerable!
I saw no teens in the test linked in the thread. I strongly suspect older guys like me don't need SOTA. Just a hunch.

I find the treble in the Crown 1002 and 2502 absolutely delicious. (WARNING SUBJECTIVE) so much so I am delighted.

I am still deaf over 14.45KC so YMMV and will depending on hearing acuity and speakers!

 

[anmpr1]

The Crown amps I saw 45 - 50 years ago mostly got PA duty.

I have no idea the breakdown of Crown's sales numbers--pro v consumer. However Crown offered a 'systems' approach for those with a lot of dollars to spend. To include an electrostatic loudspeaker. FM tuners and equalizers came a few years later. As far as I know Crown never sold a record player, but well heeled audiophiles had a pick from a variety of open reel tape decks.

 

[Old&intheWay]

There is a thread on this site (I can't remember which one) that compared a pedestrian class D amp to a high end one. And the cheap class D
won! The test used the same speakers. I LOLed when I read it because as poor as my amp measures it blows my earlier stuff away. To be fair, my
earlier amps were much less powerful. High power has a quality all its own for stuff like bass hits. I should also add much of the Crowns noise
is concentrated in the upper ranges. And I am deaf above 14.450KC. Who knows, as a teen I might have found my current system intolerable!
I saw no teens in the test linked in the thread. I strongly suspect older guys like me don't need SOTA. Just a hunch.

I find the treble in the Crown 1002 and 2502 absolutely delicious. (WARNING SUBJECTIVE) so much so I am delighted.

I am still deaf over 14.45KC so YMMV and will depending on hearing acuity and speakers!

I agree. I'm close to 70 years old and my upper range hearing isn't what is used to be. I have a relatively steep decline over 10 kHZ. I enjoy 50s-60s era jazz, and I have a large vinyl collection. Lots of factors come into play.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Crown gear used to get such high respect and had a large customer following back in the day. I find it regretable they have no real presence in today's HiFi market.
I had to dig real deep financially in 1978 to purchase a new Crown IC150A for around $500. A great very high quality build that had that "feeling" to it's controls, etc, that let you know it was something special just changing the volume level. Their gear was right up there with McIntosh in the day. Wish I had never sold any of my gear over the last 50 years.
View attachment 73515

Crown made a rational decision to avoid consumer electronics. They decided to market to professionals. Still in business.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Crown made a rational decision to avoid consumer electronics. They decided to market to professionals. Still in business.

Even in their pre-Harman heyday, most of Crown's sales were to various professional markets.

 

[Panelhead]

Everyone I grew up with that owned a Crown amp played in a band. This was 70’s.
Used to swing by the local Guitar Center with the kids. Daughter played lead guitar in a band. Son played electric piano. They always wanted something. Plus wanted to look at a guitar, effects pedal, or another toy.
Always amazed at how much gear people were buying. Shopping carts full and long lines at the registers.
Felt like an audio guy, buying a set of strings or something else cheap. People around me had a lot of stuff. Lot of them too.

 

[Sal1950]

Crown made a rational decision to avoid consumer electronics. They decided to market to professionals. Still in business.

Yea, they could keep their integrity and not become snake-oil peddlers.

 

[Sub]

A lot of us use amps like this Crown bridged for subs. Unless I missed it, what is the real output bridged to 4 ohms? I'm trying to see if its a good pairing with a Eminence 21" NSW.

 

[anmpr1]

Everyone I grew up with that owned a Crown amp played in a band. This was 70’s. Used to swing by the local Guitar Center with the kids. Shopping carts full and long lines at the registers. Felt like an audio guy, buying a set of strings or something else cheap. People around me had a lot of stuff. Lot of them too.

Just received a mailing list notice that GC filed for Chapter 11. Not sure how this will play out. GC was a decent place to source pro oriented gear. They had a no-hassle return policy, and with stores in a lot of cities it made returns easy.

 

[Sal1950]

Never owned a Crown amp but did have a Crown IC 150A preamp back in the early 80s. It performed beatifully and always felt like a very high quality product to use. Over the years I've really learned to appreciate the way a component feels to use, how the controls feel when dialed around and the switches when turned or pushed. The Crown always had that feeling of quality, as did DIY passive I built to replace the Crown using the TOTL Alps pot, and the Steve McCormak Line Drive I replaced that with. On the other hand my biggest disappointment with my Marantz AV7703 is its feel. The level control feels like there's nothing behind it and the large input switching knob is the same. It's supposed to have a click/notched feel to it as it changes inputs but the feel is so vague as to almost not be there at all. The remote is a POS with a LCD display at the top that is almost unreadable. Who still uses LCD displays in this century?. The upscale 880X are exactly the same. For a $2500-5000 piece of gear I would expect better.

 

[cistercian]

Never owned a Crown amp but did have a Crown IC 150A preamp back in the early 80s. It performed beatifully and always felt like a very high quality product to use. Over the years I've really learned to appreciate the way a component feels to use, how the controls feel when dialed around and the switches when turned or pushed. The Crown always had that feeling of quality, as did DIY passive I built to replace the Crown using the TOTL Alps pot, and the Steve McCormak Line Drive I replaced that with. On the other hand my biggest disappointment with my Marantz AV7703 is its feel. The level control feels like there's nothing behind it and the large input switching knob is the same. It's supposed to have a click/notched feel to it as it changes inputs but the feel is so vague as to almost not be there at all. The remote is a POS with a LCD display at the top that is almost unreadable. Who still uses LCD displays in this century?. The upscale 880X are exactly the same. For a $2500-5000 piece of gear I would expect better.

I am sorry to hear the interface and feel are not premium considering the price. This seems to be a trend these days. The emphasis
is on the functionality (bells and whistles) with control feel neglected. The power switch on the 2502 feels cheesy and so do the level
controls. But it is a value proposition amp so I am not offended.

 

[Sal1950]

Just received a mailing list notice that GC filed for Chapter 11. Not sure how this will play out. GC was a decent place to source pro oriented gear. They had a no-hassle return policy, and with stores in a lot of cities it made returns easy.

I did a bit of background check and it looks no one is immune from the covid losses, that's a shame

"California-based Guitar Center plans to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, according to the company.
The plan was revealed as part of a press release announcing a Restructuring Support Agreement with creditors that includes a new $165 million equity investment.
The company operates about 300 stores across the country, including seven in the Washington, D.C. area.
A Guitar Center opened in April 2017 as a principal anchor in Ellsworth Place in Silver Spring.
The company reports that it will continue to “provide uninterrupted service to its customers through its existing channels, including its stores, websites, call centers and social media pages and will continue to receive goods and ship customer orders as usual. All merchandise credits, prepaid lessons, rentals, gift cards, deposits, orders, financing and warranties will be honored.”
No store closings are planned at this time, though the company has engaged a firm to “optimize its retail portfolio.”
The company anticipates its restructuring plan will be completed by the end of the year."
https://www.sourceofthespring.com/silver-spring/guitar-center-plans-file-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

 

[anmpr1]

I did a bit of background check ...

Guitar Center was a one stop shop for anything musician related. And if they didn't stock what you were looking for, you could order on line. Then, return the item to the store if need be.

I have no idea about their largest profit center, whether it was studio related gear or simply guitars. The thing with a Crown amp (or other studio gear) is that once you buy what you require, you stop buying. With guitars, it's an obsession. You buy one, you want two. You own two you want ten. No one thinks that way about a Crown amplifier.

At the stores you could go in and play the instrument. Buying on-line is in many ways an unknown. I bought a new SG with a hairline crack at the nut. Two months later I got around to really examining it (I know, my fault) and discovered the flaw. But since I didn't catch it at delivery, the on-line dealer (not GC) couldn't work with me. Sent it to Nashville and was shipped a new lifetime warranty replacement, so I was only out shipping costs, one way. Better to go to a store if possible and thoroughly examine you purchase.

GC also offered an array of used gear. A lot of it was ratty and tour worn. But cheap. And they took it back if you didn't like it.

I'm sure the 'mom and pop' independents didn't/don't care to much for them. But a lot of the independents are going the way of many local brick and mortars.

 

[Frank207be]

A lot of us use amps like this Crown bridged for subs. Unless I missed it, what is the real output bridged to 4 ohms? I'm trying to see if its a good pairing with a Eminence 21" NSW.

That should be 2400W. I have one XLS2502 bridged mono for 2x B&C 21SW152-8 and another one for 2x RCF LF18NF405-8. I'm planning on buying a third XLS2502 for another array of 4x Visaton TIW400. Coming from less powerful Hypex plate amps I'm very happy with their performance.

 

[Rebelhifi]

I have 3 Crown XLS 2000 and 1 Crown XLS 1502. They originally drove Infinity IL towers. When I upgraded to an Atmos system, I could not find a match (and they were old - 17 years). They were all very quiet with these amps until I changed changed to an array of Klipsch Reference Premiers. I know Klipsch inflates the sensitivity number BUT, the hiss snakes started with the XLS. Klipsch has way more sensitivity than my previous Infinity. With everything unplugged, I could hear the hiss from my front 3 speakers easily at the listening position. I changed to DIY Ncore 400 mono amps for the front 3 channels, and found a Used Crown CT8150 (8 channels) for $600. I really wanted more NCore but everything was + $1500 for 8 channels. The Crown CT has a SNR of 110 and the XLS SNR 103 per Crown’s spec. Fortunately, the Crown spec is correct on the CT. All 11 channels are dead quiet ( need to put my ear to the tweeter). I loved the XLS with the Infinity speakers. The SNR was too low for some speakers (at least for me). If anyone wants to buy some XLS amps lightly used, I am selling for less than 1/2 price (I don’t have the boxes). Let me know.

 

[snickers]

Did you connected the XLS amp's over Cinch or XLR, when you used them with the Klipsch's?