Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

[bigx5murf]

I found bass extension and HF extension poor. It was easy to drive them into distortion. They are ok as far as it goes
but the small cabinet and bass driver size is a big limitation. They are great for limited space and don't suck at all.
But the titanium dome compression horn in the JBL is far better and the giant cabinet, porting, and 15" LF driver satisfy
bass extension. The mid range in the JBL is based on line array driver technique as well. The JBL speaker is in a very different
category with peak SPL listed in the spec sheet as 137db and elsewhere as 130db.
And 124db continuous. Much louder than the bose 301. And it can do it all day long.
JBL says 800 watts continuous, 1600 watts program, and 3200watts peak. Ominous for home use.
The Bose are good from 10 to 150 watts...and without horns for HF and MF just cannot get as loud.
I almost destroyed the 301's with the 1002 amp. I think they are rated at a peak of 150 watts based on how they
folded under high power. It certainly is not a judgement against them...they are for home use, not sound reinforcement
or PA duty.

I just wanted more.

Do the 301 also require an EQ box? What you described sounds exactly like how my 901 sounds without the Bose EQ unit.

 

[DonH56]

Disclaimer: I am not a big Bose fan, though had C800's for a time, and many friends with 901's. Just didn't care for the sound. And less a fan of their smaller models (301, 501, the "interesting" 601...)

No EQ box with the 301. The 301 has very little overlap with the 901. It is a little 2-way speaker with angled tweeter plus another on the back. Comparing them to the JBL with much larger woofer and compression driver is not really fair; they are very different speakers. For that matter, to me (and based upon old memories), the 301 didn't sound much like the 901; it sounded like a little speaker with a bit of "ambience" from the rear tweeter -- in the right room, on the right shelf, etc. I understand the much later versions sound a bit better -- I have not heard them since maybe series 2 or 3, but the basic design has not changed.

IME/IMO/FWIWFM - Don

 

[Sal1950]

Crown gear used to get such high respect and had a large customer following back in the day. I find it regretable they have no real presence in today's HiFi market.
I had to dig real deep financially in 1978 to purchase a new Crown IC150A for around $500. A great very high quality build that had that "feeling" to it's controls, etc, that let you know it was something special just changing the volume level. Their gear was right up there with McIntosh in the day. Wish I had never sold any of my gear over the last 50 years.

 

[cistercian]

Crown gear used to get such high respect and had a large customer following back in the day. I find it regretable they have no real presence in today's HiFi market.
I had to dig real deep financially in 1978 to purchase a new Crown IC150A for around $500. A great very high quality build that had that "feeling" to it's controls, etc, that let you know it was something special just changing the volume level. Their gear was right up there with McIntosh in the day. Wish I had never sold any of my gear over the last 50 years.
View attachment 73515

Well if you buy a pair of the M2 reference monitors the Crown Itech 5000HD is the recommended amp!
But the fans are loud so it gets placed in another room! Way too expensive for me but the pairing performs
on an epic level. 2.5kilowatts per channel...talk about head room!

 

[Sal1950]

Way too expensive for me but the pairing performs
on an epic level. 2.5kilowatts per channel...talk about head room!

That's my fantasy rig, but the High End (consumer) model is offered with Mark Levinson power instead.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/jbl-m2-tower-speaker-best-jbl-ever

 

[cistercian]

It was not long ago we dreamed of this kind of power output never mind for US $645.00 and like amirm stated from a wall power outlet. This amp and some big Cerwin Vega or JBL's would be sweet.

Trust me...it is very sweet indeed. Listening as I type this at very low level about 61db A weighted.

I am surprised how poorly the amp measured in some respects and yet actually listening to it is just fantastic!
Caveat...I am soon to be 59 and like to rock occasionally. I use JBL SRX835 passives with this amp and have never
had a better system. They are 95db @ 1watt/meter. Epic and detailed too.

A great amp if you need power and don't want to spend a ton. Highly Recommended but YMMV.

 

[Sal1950]

I use JBL SRX835 passives

They look like kick-a--s speakers.

 

[cistercian]

They look like kick-a--s speakers.

Oh yes...they really do kick a**. The modern transducers are wonderful. They are the nicest and
also by far the most rugged speakers I have ever owned. Everyone who has heard them went away
very impressed. I love them.
I like the aesthetic too.
They come in a powered version and the pics with the grill off on JBL's site shows the powered ones front.
Because these are passive they are not built the same way. 4 ports (2 on each side) below and on the
sides of the LF driver replace the cutaway corner the amplified version has. The crossovers are extremely
well built and located for good cooling. They are not typical home speakers!
The HF driver is used in some theater system speakers...with a larger horn. I think the mid is bespoke.
The LF driver is nice, but the ones in the M2 are much more epic. I think the price was fair and I bought them
from JBL direct. They weigh 95lbs and my handtruck came in handy.

 

[cistercian]

There is a sale on the 2502 now for 599 from crown.
I should also add these amps have a 3 year warranty for US buyers.

 

[Old&intheWay]

This is my first post, so bear with me. I'm considering the Crown XLS 2002 or 2502 for a two-channel setup. I have B&W 801 Matrix speakers now (sensitivity 87dB, power handling is 50-600w into 8 ohm). Any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[CDMC]

This is my first post, so bear with me. I'm considering the Crown XLS 2002 or 2502 for a two-channel setup. I have B&W 801 Matrix speakers now (sensitivity 87dB, power handling is 50-600w into 8 ohm). Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Welcome to ASR!!!

You may want to start a new thread asking your question. It appears the 801 are a pretty easy load, not going below 6 ohms. While the Crowns have a lot of power, they are not the cleanest. I would suggest you consider a Hypex NC252 or NC502 amp from audiophonics or Nord. Both are in the same price range. Another alternative would be a pair of the Emotiva Class D Monoblocks.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...reo-amplifier-ncore-2x250w-4-ohm-p-14278.html

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-one-hypex-ncore-mpxxx-stereo-p

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/pa-1

If you want to stay with Class A/AB, Emotiva has some excellent choices at very fair prices:

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-300

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/xpa-2-gen3

Monoprice also offers some good Class A/AB amps, which are manufactured by ATI here in the USA:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15595

 

[Old&intheWay]

Welcome to ASR!!!

You may want to start a new thread asking your question. It appears the 801 are a pretty easy load, not going below 6 ohms. While the Crowns have a lot of power, they are not the cleanest. I would suggest you consider a Hypex NC252 or NC502 amp from audiophonics or Nord. Both are in the same price range. Another alternative would be a pair of the Emotiva Class D Monoblocks.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...reo-amplifier-ncore-2x250w-4-ohm-p-14278.html

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-one-hypex-ncore-mpxxx-stereo-p

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/pa-1

If you want to stay with Class A/AB, Emotiva has some excellent choices at very fair prices:

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-300

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/xpa-2-gen3

Monoprice also offers some good Class A/AB amps, which are manufactured by ATI here in the USA:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15595

Ok, thanks. I'll repost. The Emotiva monoblocks may be a better choice.

 

[Panelhead]

Which model of 801 Matrix do you own? The 801 Matrix II are an easier load than the Matrix III. I owned the II’s and they definitely played loud enough with a 100 watt amp.
Several owners shared that it required 500 - 600 watts to play stupid loud. And the dynamics and slam wake up with this kind of power. The crossovers absorbed a lot of this abuse.
The Matrix III require a powerful amplifier.
Back to your original question, the main difference between the Crown XLS 2000 and 2500 models is rail voltage. Both have twice as many output devices and filter caps as the 1500 series.
I tried the XLS-1500 and the XLS-2000. Both on Thiel C.S.-3.5 speakers. The Thiels have the same rated efficiency as the B&W 801 Matrix II. But played louder and had much larger dynamic swings. Never felt the Thiels needed more than the 1500 could deliver. 801’s might.
I think of the Crown’s like the Behringer amp. Not a SOTA product. But many feel it is as good as you need. Non-sighted double blind testing is needed to see if the orders of magnitude lower noise and distortion available in a SOTA amp is audible.

 

[Old&intheWay]

Which model of 801 Matrix do you own? The 801 Matrix II are an easier load than the Matrix III. I owned the II’s and they definitely played loud enough with a 100 watt amp.
Several owners shared that it required 500 - 600 watts to play stupid loud. And the dynamics and slam wake up with this kind of power. The crossovers absorbed a lot of this abuse.
The Matrix III require a powerful amplifier.
Back to your original question, the main difference between the Crown XLS 2000 and 2500 models is rail voltage. Both have twice as many output devices and filter caps as the 1500 series.
I tried the XLS-1500 and the XLS-2000. Both on Thiel C.S.-3.5 speakers. The Thiels have the same rated efficiency as the B&W 801 Matrix II. But played louder and had much larger dynamic swings. Never felt the Thiels needed more than the 1500 could deliver. 801’s might.
I think of the Crown’s like the Behringer amp. Not a SOTA product. But many feel it is as good as you need. Non-sighted double blind testing is needed to see if the orders of magnitude lower noise and distortion available in a SOTA amp is audible.

The previous owner had the crossovers modified, so it's essentially a Series 3. I started a new thread and described my situation more fully. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Panelhead]

The previous owner had the crossovers modified, so it's essentially a Series 3. I started a new thread and described my situation more fully. Thanks for the reply.

Where did you post?
The difference between the 801 Matrix II and III is substantial. The drivers all changed. The woofer went from 12” to 15” and the loading is different. Same with the “heads” holding the mid and tweeter.

 

[Old&intheWay]

Where did you post?
The difference between the 801 Matrix II and III is substantial. The drivers all changed. The woofer went from 12” to 15” and the loading is different. Same with the “heads” holding the mid and tweeter.

I have the Matrix 2 version, it has 12" woofers. I reposted in the 'Audio Newbie' section.

 

[anmpr1]

Crown gear used to get such high respect and had a large customer following back in the day. I find it regretable they have no real presence in today's HiFi market. Their gear was right up there with McIntosh in the day.

Anecdote: During the mid-'70s I lived in a mid-sized city, but it had at least a dozen stereo shops. You could pretty much get anything. One was tweako (Dunlap-Clarke, Quintessence Group, Analog Engineering Associates, Dahlquist, some oddball imports--Transcriptors and Lecson).

The other two were 'high end' mainstream--one dealer sold McIntosh and the other Crown. I recall how the Crown dealer featured the company's confugurable semi-pro tape recorders (which had a military-industrial look about them) while the Mac dealer competed with the A77, which didn't look like much from the outside, but was good quality and didn't look too out of place in a living room.

Over the years Crown sold some respectable and even some over the top consumer oriented gear, but given Crown's scheme within Harman, the pro market makes sense--even back in the day Crown was as much pro as consumer.

Other than loudspeakers, does Harman group even sell any 'mid range' electronics anymore. HK seems to be more of a placeholder for generic loudspeakers--their thing seems to be car audio. Harman owns Arcam--I guess that's their presence in the reasonably affordable consumer space.

 

[Old&intheWay]

Anecdote: During the mid-'70s I lived in a mid-sized city, but it had at least a dozen stereo shops. You could pretty much get anything. One was tweako (Dunlap-Clarke, Quintessence Group, Analog Engineering Associates, Dahlquist, some oddball imports--Transcriptors and Lecson).

The other two were 'high end' mainstream--one dealer sold McIntosh and the other Crown. I recall how the Crown dealer featured the company's confugurable semi-pro tape recorders (which had a military-industrial look about them) while the Mac dealer competed with the A77, which didn't look like much from the outside, but was good quality and didn't look too out of place in a living room.

Over the years Crown sold some respectable and even some over the top consumer oriented gear, but given Crown's scheme within Harman, the pro market makes sense--even back in the day Crown was as much pro as consumer.

Other than loudspeakers, does Harman group even sell any 'mid range' electronics anymore. HK seems to be more of a placeholder for generic loudspeakers--their thing seems to be car audio. Harman owns Arcam--I guess that's their presence in the reasonably affordable consumer space.

I remember Crown and Phase Linear (Carver) amplifiers in competition during the '70s. Crown specs were focused on low THD, Phase Linear was gobs of power. McIntosh seemed more popular with the older consumer, all the gear was pricey. I still have a vintage MC240 amp & C22 preamp I bought used in 1977.

 

[MediumRare]

I cannot believe how a fair number of people here at ASR insist on judging this amplifier by the standards for a sophisticated audiophile amplifier instead of the PA/utility amplifier that it actually is.

In it's class and price range, it is a truly excellent performer and an outstanding value. And it is only an excellent foundation for an "audiophile" sound system if your goal is to accurately reproduce a live rock concert at your local stadium - or a boozy night of live music at a local bar / saloon / night club.)

What do you think is the audible difference in the measurements?

 

[Panelhead]

The Crown amps I saw 45 - 50 years ago mostly got PA duty. They were tough and loud. Some saw double duty at home and shows.
But did hear some Phase Linear gear in homes. Loud too. Never saw PL rigged up by a band.
All that gear was always cranked. Young ears.
I would be surprised if it sounds better than the XLS series. Too much global negative feedback to get the low THD.