Crosstalk Measurements?

[James-F]

Why is there no crosstalk measurements in any of the DAC+Amp reviews, is it taboo around here?

 

[amirm]

Crosstalk in DACs is so good that I have not seen the need to run the test. I do run it for amplifiers and such.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Sometimes there are crosstalk measurements. It rarely is an issue. In fact 20 to 25 db is plenty for maximum stereo effect.

EDIT: I see Amir has replied more or less as I was conjecturing.

 

[James-F]

25 db is plenty

This is THE most un-hifi thing I've read in a while.

Current DAC measurements are way past human hearing yet we still measure them, but crosstalk is 'good enough' to completely skip the measurement?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Maybe, but true. Actually somewhere around 17 to 18 db channel separation will give you the perception of fully right or fully left in a stereo setup. So like I wrote, 25 db is plenty. Is there any non-broken DAC with that little? I guess if we don't measure we don't know, but I don't think it will be a problem like almost ever.

Don't know if you've listened to the obsolete LP format any, but cartridges rarely have more than 25 db channel separation and I don't know if any have ever had more than 35 db. Yet stereo and imaging is fine on those.

 

[James-F]

I would even make a ridiculous argument that if an ESS ES90xx is used all measurements can be skipped except headphone amp performance and crosstalk, reason is the only thing that has any meaningful impact on sound is the headphone amp topology.
So anti, I know.

Anyway, crosstalk measurements on the headphone output, yes please.

 

[Jimbob54]

Knew I had read this before- interesting discussion here

WHY no crosstalk measurements in your dac measurement

WHY no crosstalk measurements in your dac measurement!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find this measurement crucial, there is a reason people prefer dual mono dacs... i cant believe you recommend the modi 3 when on their website they say Crosstalk: -80dB, 20-20kHz even phase shift of between channel at the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[James-F]

It did seem strange to me that the difference between -117db and -123db SINAD values is significant round here despite being at least 30db below the audible range, while any random abysmal channel separation value is considered as good enough to completely skip the measurement.
Very weird indeed.

 

[Sernyl]

Hi,
Yes, can't say if there are any DAC crosstalk differences.
But in power amplifiers it may not be quite the same :
The first time after connecting a Boxem Arthur 4215/E2 (instead of an Atoll AM200S power block), I started with listening to my favourite FM program :
I got amazed by a far better stereo effect. I did not expect that at all !
BTW, needless to say that, on more modern sources, this amp has many other qualities.
So, it would be interesting to add a crosstalk column in " Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties ".
More, maybe I'm wrong, but does not IMD depend (at least in part) from crosstalk ?
What about the measurement method ?

"To nobody, except those who will take pleasure here" (Franz Schubert, 1797-1828)

 

[Speedskater]

Analog FM broadcasting by its vary nature has extremely poor crosstalk specs.
But some FM stations use processors that enhance the stereo effect.

 

[Sernyl]

Thank you for the reminder.
Although I am aware of the FM mode limitations, all the more so that really surprised me.