Could this be the ultimate AV processor set up?

[Doodski]

Lol, my theater is all DIY from ground up, and no high end by any means. The Projector is hanging from the ceiling in a 30x35’ room. I can get some faint fan noise from the projector at silence, but not an issue when watching movies.

View attachment 52137

Come onnn. DIY is drafting, then framing that, then boarding it, running your own wires per code and such.

 

[GD Fan]

BTY, if Amir is up to it, I would send my Yamaha CX-A5100 processor to be measured. No high hopes though, I think it will be on par with recent Marantz measurements.

That would be an interesting comp to the Yamaha A-1080 AVR that was reviewed last year.

 

[gags11]

Come onnn. DIY is drafting, then framing that, then boarding it, running your own wires per code and such.

I have done ALL myself, including wiring, patching, electronics, lighting, painting, hand finishing the moldings, and installing. Home Depot did carpeting, that’s the only thing that was outsourced

 

[Doodski]

I have done ALL myself, including wiring, patching, electronics, lighting, painting, hand finishing the moldings, and installing. Home Depot did carpeting, that’s the only thing that was outsourced

I stand corrected Takes a major skill set to do all that stuff. Carpeting is veryyy hard on the back.

 

[gags11]

I stand corrected Takes a major skill set to do all that stuff. Carpeting is veryyy hard on the back.

yes you do! But carpeting was the only thing that was not done by me. This was a game room that I converted to theater. No framing done, except a small elevation that I built with 2x8s. And my wiring I “hope” is up to code, lol.

 

[Doodski]

yes you do! But carpeting was the only thing that was not done by me. This was a game room that I converted to theater. No framing done, and my wiring I “hope” is up to code, lol.

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That's dedication fore sure.

 

[apgood]

It has a fan. Do we know how loud it is? If it is audible, then you would need to put it in a different room (not an issue for high-end theaters).

I have an Stormaudio ISP and it is very quiet. I'll need to check how close I have to be to hear it, but can say when sitting at the desk beside it I don't notice any fan noise.

I currently have just the analog Outputs (which don't measure particularly high based on Marc's measurements), but I have the AES/EBU Digital Out module on order and should be receiving it in a few weeks.

I'll be connecting it to a QSC Q-Sys system so don't expect measurements to necessarily improve but will give me much more flexibility routing sound around the house.

 

[gags11]

That's dedication fore sure.

Thank you! Never again though

 

[polmuaddib]

Don't worry about recent AV poor measurements, sound wise they should be fine but don't take my word for it. Go and have a demo session and decide for yourself.

I have an Onkyo PR-SC5530 pre pro and i don't thnik there are measurements for it yet, but I imagine it would fair pretty poorly like Marantz 8805 or even worse. Anyway, for years it has been the center of my system for music both 2 channel and surround and movies. And for years i have been told by audiophiles that it is not good for stereo listening and that i need a proper 2 channel preamp. Finally, I recently aquired Jeff Rowland's Capri preamp and I chose it for HT bypass feature so that I can integrate it and not build two systems. I was really surprised when I heard it play. It sounds much better then my Onkyo pre pro. It is not just different sound, but a clear improvement. It is not a question of level matching, because now I don't have to turn the volume up to hear details and enjoy music. It is always hard to quantify the improvement, but it makes listening to music now a much more enjoyable experience on Capri and pre pro sounds flat and uninteresting.
So, in this instance, audiophiles were right. You need a good stereo preamp and no AV pre pro seems competent yet for 2 channel music.

 

[raif71]

I have an Onkyo PR-SC5530 pre pro and i don't thnik there are measurements for it yet, but I imagine it would fair pretty poorly like Marantz 8805 or even worse. Anyway, for years it has been the center of my system for music both 2 channel and surround and movies. And for years i have been told by audiophiles that it is not good for stereo listening and that i need a proper 2 channel preamp. Finally, I recently aquired Jeff Rowland's Capri preamp and I chose it for HT bypass feature so that I can integrate it and not build two systems. I was really surprised when I heard it play. It sounds much better then my Onkyo pre pro. It is not just different sound, but a clear improvement. It is not a question of level matching, because now I don't have to turn the volume up to hear details and enjoy music. It is always hard to quantify the improvement, but it makes listening to music now a much more enjoyable experience on Capri and pre pro sounds flat and uninteresting.
So, in this instance, audiophiles were right. You need a good stereo preamp and no AV pre pro seems competent yet for 2 channel music.

If you have the dough by all means and especially if the upgrades make you happy. In my case, I have to make do with what I have

 

[polmuaddib]

I understand, but the point I was trying to make is that I believe that better measurements are audible. We saw here that all the AVRs and AV prepros measured on this site have a poor SINAD, and stereo preamplifiers (and DACs with preamp function) have much better SINAD. There have been occasional suggestions that it doesn't matter because we will not hear the difference when SINAD is above 80 or so.
So, the conclusion I am drawing is that we will probably hear and like more the unit with higher SINAD. Up to a reasonable point, perhaps.
And I am not saying you need an expensive preamp to hear the difference also. There are stereo preamps measured here that are very good and not expensive that will sonically outperform Emotiva pre pro and Marantz pre pro.

 

[HighImpactAV]

I came across the Storm Audio ISP 3D.32 ELITE | Digital AES Edition preamp/processor. This unit does all the Dolby and DTS processing, uses Dirac live for room correction, and provides 16-32 channels of AES digital outputs.

I own the StormAudio ISP 3D.32 ELITE Digital AVB Edition. I also own the 4 channel card for 20 analog channels, but it occupies the sames slot as the digital output so I'm not using it right now. The 4 channel card lowers the analog output noise floor of all channels by 6 dB since it runs the DAC chips in a parallel configuration.

The ISP does have a fan, but mine rarely kicks in and the internal temp is around 30-35C without the fan. When on, my fan has never ran at higher than 50%.



While there is no remote, there is an both a web based app and an iOS app if one doesn't want to use a third party automation system.

I am outputting via AVB to a MOTU 1248 and 624, but will probably be getting either a MOTU 24ao or an RME M-32 DA Pro. My minimum output requirement for a DAC is at least +20 dBU and it must be DC coupled and both the MOTU and the RME fit my requirement.

I have been HTPC only since 1990 with a myriad of multichannel DAC's using Firewire, USB, AES, Thunderbolt, Dante, or AVB. However, with the move to immersive audio, I wanted to be able to decode Atmos, Auro-3D, and DTS:X. The StormAudio processor is the only one that came close to the flexibility I have with JRiver Media Center with multiple zones/layouts, room correction (I used Audiolense), routing, and advanced bass management.

 

[Costas EAR]

Amir’s recent measurements have shown that most AV processors suck sonically, in terms of noise and distortion.

I don't think so.

 

[Worth Davis]

If you are dropping that kinda of $$$ probably should be looking at Datasat and Trinnov processors as well.

 

[apgood]

Finally got and installed an AES 32 Channel digital out module in my MK1 StormAudio ISP 3D.32 that's connected to a QSC Q-Sys core. Was a very easy install. Only need to connect 2 cables. Instructions provided are easy to follow.

Here's a photo of it installed.

 

[apgood]

And here's some photos of the internals when I first got the Processor and install the upgraded Video board. In case anyone is interested.
You might notice in the 2nd photo at the front right a raspberry pi. I believe it's used for the web interface. Not sure what else it drives.

 

[LaLaLard]

I have been trying to do what you are trying to do, for years... I pretty much arrived at the conclusion that: regardless of how much a high-end equipment costs, as long as it doesn't include analog part of job, a PC is usually the best way to do it --- not a good alternative, but the best and most cost-effective way. For example, potplayer, with expertise in configuration, by fiddling with all the open source and paid codecs, one can always get better picture quality than $X000 high end Bluray player.

Audio does not differ from picture when it is still in the digital path. what you try to achieve is simply what a computer does when you use it to play movie and use the digital output interface of your PC. But the question here is, which PC soundcard does the following job:

-Act as a decoder of surrounding sound format;
-Act as a splitter of surrounding sound channels;
-Has interface to output all these channels to DAC? (minimum 7.1, preferably ATMOS 11.2.4)

If the above can be solved by some unknown soundcard I'll immediately get that and ditch my NAD receiver, which got 0.23% distortion, based on Amirm's review...

It is not impossible to use like several USB soundcards to do the job but so far, no luck for me. Just could't find the softwares to do the channel mapping stuff (KMplayer used to have channel mapping but doesn't work well).

But because this is what I conclude, I definetely restrain myself from investing any big money in AV receiver or processor as they don't do ANYTHING as good as other devices such as stereo amps, stereo DAC or PC... and I think we'll see some reasonably priced product use the advantage of the mighty computing power to do what these $20,000 crazily expensive things does, for 1 or 2 percent of the cost later in the day. (Hey engineers! I just need a pc soundcard that outputs 18 digital channels out that's all!!! MiniDSP can do the rest if you can simply serve the digital signal through MULTIPLE CABLES! That’s all I need.)

Perhaps receivers and processors should be called "signal switcher" instead.

 

[apgood]

If there were a way to decode to decode the immersive codecs (Atmos, Dts-X and Auto) as well as get their immersive upmixers in a PC then maybe, but at the moment there isn't any that I'm aware of (I have looked several times and not found any viable options), so I'll stick to my SSP that can decide 16 channels (soon upgradable to 24) and post process 32 channels.

For movie playback though my primary device is a PC and continue to be, but having the SSP in the chain makes it easy for others in the house hold to use that are more comfortable using other source devices like ATV & Chromecast.

 

[LaLaLard]

If there were a way to decode to decode the immersive codecs (Atmos, Dts-X and Auto) as well as get their immersive upmixers in a PC then maybe, but at the moment there isn't any that I'm aware of (I have looked several times and not found any viable options), so I'll stick to my SSP that can decide 16 channels (soon upgradable to 24) and post process 32 channels.

For movie playback though my primary device is a PC and continue to be, but having the SSP in the chain makes it easy for others in the house hold to use that are more comfortable using other source devices like ATV & Chromecast.

Yup I basically am using my NAD to do the same thing. As we have different source of video and audio, or worse, have HDMI inputs that include both - we are pretty much stuck with a receiver or processor, which can easily cost several times more than a good PC.

What these receiver/processor has that a PC don’t in terms of digital signal chain processing, is a surrounding sound decoder chip. A PC does decoding using its CPU only, and a PC CPU easily has several hundreds or more times of computing power than a receiver/processor. And with all the open source players these day, It’s stunning to see no one are using a PC as a AV processor.

Just to let you know, Dolby does have Dolby headphone available for PC (for a price). What that does is process your multi-channel soundtracks and mimicking dummy head recording. It maps all the channels sent to it (ATMOS especially) and If you configure it right, you can hear sound as it’s coming from behind, or above, or below, through a pair of headphones. I’ve used it for a year or so already, and it’s definitely some good immersive experience.

For player, I mainly use potplayer at the moment because of its fully configurable structure. And it decodes all multi channel soundtracks with no problem at all. For upmixing it isn’t available at the moment, but not because a PC cannot (think all the DSP available on PC vs only several modes of audio filters in a Receiver) but rather no one has developed it because the demand is extremely low. Most people won’t hear a difference between different DAC or they don’t care, so why bother using a PC to do what a cheap receiver can do with ease?

And just think by downloading new softwares you can have your “PC receiver” continue to support latest audio format without buying new equipment...how good is that.

But if there are demands, there will be products soon. For example, Now as active speakers are rising quickly, soon we will see home theatre setups using only digital cables. (Such as sonos home theatre, using Ethernet cable to go to the speakers) if all you see is digital cables in your theatre (as all DAC and analogue part are done within the speaker itself) I don’t see a reason for receiver to continue to exist, rather than acting as a source switcher.

Basically all we need are PC soundcards with several digital inputs and many digital outputs. for like several hundred bucks to the most. We are only paying for its physical interfaces, need good connection at least. But it does not affect sound quality in any way, it is affected by the software and DAC, plus amp.

Can’t think of a reason it doesn’t exist, in 2020 still. Sigh.

 

[apgood]

Yup I basically am using my NAD to do the same thing. As we have different source of video and audio, or worse, have HDMI inputs that include both - we are pretty much stuck with a receiver or processor, which can easily cost several times more than a good PC.

What these receiver/processor has that a PC don’t in terms of digital signal chain processing, is a surrounding sound decoder chip. A PC does decoding using its CPU only, and a PC CPU easily has several hundreds or more times of computing power than a receiver/processor. And with all the open source players these day, It’s stunning to see no one are using a PC as a AV processor.

Just to let you know, Dolby does have Dolby headphone available for PC (for a price). What that does is process your multi-channel soundtracks and mimicking dummy head recording. It maps all the channels sent to it (ATMOS especially) and If you configure it right, you can hear sound as it’s coming from behind, or above, or below, through a pair of headphones. I’ve used it for a year or so already, and it’s definitely some good immersive experience.

For player, I mainly use potplayer at the moment because of its fully configurable structure. And it decodes all multi channel soundtracks with no problem at all. For upmixing it isn’t available at the moment, but not because a PC cannot (think all the DSP available on PC vs only several modes of audio filters in a Receiver) but rather no one has developed it because the demand is extremely low. Most people won’t hear a difference between different DAC or they don’t care, so why bother using a PC to do what a cheap receiver can do with ease?

And just think by downloading new softwares you can have your “PC receiver” continue to support latest audio format without buying new equipment...how good is that.

But if there are demands, there will be products soon. For example, Now as active speakers are rising quickly, soon we will see home theatre setups using only digital cables. (Such as sonos home theatre, using Ethernet cable to go to the speakers) if all you see is digital cables in your theatre (as all DAC and analogue part are done within the speaker itself) I don’t see a reason for receiver to continue to exist, rather than acting as a source switcher.

Basically all we need are PC soundcards with several digital inputs and many digital outputs. for like several hundred bucks to the most. We are only paying for its physical interfaces, need good connection at least. But it does not affect sound quality in any way, it is affected by the software and DAC, plus amp.

Can’t think of a reason it doesn’t exist, in 2020 still. Sigh.

You can get pro audio cards and possibly use something like pro tools with the necessary immersive audio plug-ins but it won't be anywhere near as user friendly as an SSP or AVR and cost will probably end up being in the $5K plus range. And you still won't have HDCP compliant HDMI input card for your non-PC based sources.

The reason there isn't really any PC based software solution is because of the Protected Path requirements stipulated by the industry making the return on investment to low for anyone to bother.

Closest would be the Trinnov which is a specialised Linux based Intel i7/i3 (depending on model) PC but it costs even more than a StormAudio and doesn't include a media player because it is an SSP.