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Could an "evidence based" HiFi retailer ever be commercially viable?

restorer-john

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Not because I don't like them, but because the purposes they serve is just a bit self-serving of nostalgia of a way of life that was quaint, but all can see that way of life can't ever really come back, and for good reason. And certainly not in any meaningful majority.

It will come back. People are social creatures and they crave interaction. They crave being made to feel important, appreciated and catered for.

Online sales cannot and will never achieve the personal interaction that people want, particularly when spending a lot of money or purchasing true consumer durables.

I was at my father's (he's 87) place today and we discussed this. He recalls the grocer bringing a sample box to his mother's back door. His mother would order what she wanted and it'd be delivered that afternoon straight to her kitchen door by a delivery man. He also recalled his mother walking through Myer (a department store) and asking for a kids' bucket and spade/shovel to be delivered. My father remembers the Myer delivery van pulling up alongside him out on the street that afternoon, and the delivery driver, asking his name and then handing him the bucket and spade. He thinks he was about 3-4 years old and that was the 1930s. He has never forgotten that.

The initial sales process and close, whether subsequently fulfilled by a second or third party is where online fails dismally. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable about pressing a 'buy it now' button. The only joy comes from knowing it is actually on the way to you. Nobody puts it in the car, smiles genuinely, shakes your hand, and thanks you for your business. Nobody picks up the phone or schedules a follow up visit to see how it has all worked out. At most, they will send you a link to a survey, or request you rate their service (it will only take 5 minutes or less to complete this action and this procedure is fully automated)...:facepalm:

I can bet you the Keiths (Purite) and Dukes don't do business that way. And I certainly hope they will not only survive, but prosper because audio needs people prepared to stake their own money, put their balls on the line, rent a tenancy, pay some staff, showcase some great gear, and do what they believe in.

Make Audio Great Again! I think that acronym may have been used already...
 

Doodski

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People are social creatures and they crave interaction. They crave being made to feel important, appreciated and catered for
I see it in the isolation from the Covid19 virus. We are all wearing masks and distanced 2m, or 6 feet. It's annoying and I want to be normal again. People are indeed social creatures and we crave intimacy/trust. I think a retailer that has the "balls" and the resources to show the relevant public that they are there to provide will succeed. Online sales is very strong with some but the ease of the purchase will die out and peeps will tire of the return process and the research req'd to make a decent purchase.
 
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Tks

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It will come back. People are social creatures and they crave interaction. They crave being made to feel important, appreciated and catered for.

Online sales cannot and will never achieve the personal interaction that people want, particularly when spending a lot of money or purchasing true consumer durables.

I mean, I understand we're social creatures, and this sort of isolation that tech and cities have brought suck the higher up your apartment number is in a building. Here in NYC, you see people spend their whole week working, and then going home working, and then to sleep. But come the weekend, if work doesn't intrude there as well - they go out and get smashed & hammered like it's their last week on Earth. Trying to make up for what is evidently lots of social neglect throughout the week. Some get it in that weekend, some don't and is why they overdrink from what I've seen.

I was at my father's (he's 87) place today and we discussed this. He recalls the grocer bringing a sample box to his mother's back door. His mother would order what she wanted and it'd be delivered that afternoon straight to her kitchen door by a delivery man. He also recalled his mother walking through Myer (a department store) and asking for a kids' bucket and spade/shovel to be delivered. My father remembers the Myer delivery van pulling up alongside him out on the street that afternoon, and the delivery driver, asking his name and then handing him the bucket and spade. He thinks he was about 3-4 years old and that was the 1930s. He has never forgotten that.

I mean, I've had that at my gransparents house when I used to vaccation there as a kid. It was even better than what you describe because the food was from an even better source (not the grocer, but the farmer's son & daughter would ride down from somewhere, bringing fresh layed eggs, and milk and veggies for the season). That was great stuff, and likewise similar shopping experience to your fathers' where if something was nice at the store, but too big to carry in a bag, it would get delivered after trying it out there.

The initial sales process and close, whether subsequently fulfilled by a second or third party is where online fails dismally. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable about pressing a 'buy it now' button. The only joy comes from knowing it is actually on the way to you. Nobody puts it in the car, smiles genuinely, shakes your hand, and thanks you for your business. Nobody picks up the phone or schedules a follow up visit to see how it has all worked out. At most, they will send you a link to a survey, or request you rate their service (it will only take 5 minutes or less to complete this action and this procedure is fully automated)...:facepalm:

Oh for this, I have an actual account. So, my generation (late 20's at least here where I live in the city) actually don't want to interact with people for any sort of business transaction at all if they can avoid it. In the same way people don't enjoy being called anymore before you text them. So that joy is completely undesired in the first place. The only time they want to interact with people is when they must or when those other people are enjoying the same things they are (like leisure or partying). This is one of the shifts in value preferences I think accounts heavily for why online purchases occur. You see the same thing in upscale buildings where if food was ordered, they don't want the delivery guy coming up to their door, and would rather the concierge bring it up and such.

But again, this all occurred due to business efficiency for the masses. And it proved to be something the common people would bare or not mind.

I can bet you the Keiths (Purite) and Dukes don't do business that way. And I certainly hope they will not only survive, but prosper because audio needs people prepared to stake their own money, put their balls on the line, rent a tenancy, pay some staff, showcase some great gear, and do what they believe in.

Make Audio Great Again! I think that acronym may have been used already...

Well sure, we're of like mind in this regard, this sort of world currently is pretty bleak in more ways than just audio retail, but the reverberations can be felt everywhere, it just so happens audio retail was the first to go it seems.

I see it in the isolation from the Covid19 virus. We are all wearing masks and distanced 2m, or 6 feet. It's annoying and I want to be normal again. People are indeed social creatures and we crave intimacy/trust. I think a retailer that has the "balls" and the resources to show the relevant public that they are there to provide will succeed. Online sales is very strong with some but the ease of the purchase will die out and peeps will tire of the return process and the research req'd to make a decent purchase.

I actually think people are already sort of tired of seeing so much local flavor removed in the hyper concentrated power of a few corporations that set the playing field that we see these days. One thing I disagree heavily though, is the last sentence's conclusion, that people will go back to researching to make decent purchases. I doubt this very very much in nearly any scenario I can imagine.
 

PresbyByrd

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I live in Grand Rapids. So one time I ordered speakers for pick up from Audio Advisor. I fully expected them to have some kind of showroom. They are just a warehouse order place. No showroom at all.

I had a similar experience with them. I wanted to pick something up and they seemed almost put off by the idea.
 

GeorgeBynum

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Curious: why do you feel compelled to have equipment that must be screwed in to a rack?
In my case, the WAF won't allow it. BUT, the ability to connect without moving components would be a very good reason. I've worked in industry where the back of the rack was a room into itself. Equipment remaining stationary helped in many ways.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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It's not a compulsion, it's more that my equipment is a permanent installation, so doesn't get moved around, and a 19" rack is the most convenient way to house everything, with all the cabling except 'speaker cables hidden. The racks are to one side, not between the 'speakers, and the 'speakers have grilles on so I don't have to look at the drivers.

The racks are on castors, so I can move them out for rear access the few times I need to get in there for any reason. It's a fit and forget type installation. A separate 'machine room' would be even better, but I don't have that luxury.

S
That's kind of what I do with all gear behind me in racks with little visible in the front of the room beyond speakers.
 

MattHooper

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It's not a compulsion, it's more that my equipment is a permanent installation, so doesn't get moved around, and a 19" rack is the most convenient way to house everything, with all the cabling except 'speaker cables hidden. The racks are to one side, not between the 'speakers, and the 'speakers have grilles on so I don't have to look at the drivers.

The racks are on castors, so I can move them out for rear access the few times I need to get in there for any reason. It's a fit and forget type installation. A separate 'machine room' would be even better, but I don't have that luxury.

S

Ok, makes sense, thanks for the explanation!
 

Sal1950

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waynel

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I am using amazon basic XLR cables between my DAC and amp. About 8 dollars each or 16 bucks a pair for 6 foot cables.
On the site you listed a pair of XLR cables the same length was 149.95. Yikes!
You can make some of the highest quality 6 ft xlrs for $9, or $11 if you want gold contacts. Canare starquad and neutrik XX series xlr connectors
 

cistercian

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You can make some of the highest quality 6 ft xlrs for $9, or $11 if you want gold contacts. Canare starquad and neutrik XX series xlr connectors

Thanks! I am clueless about these connectors...I have never used them before. My familiarity is RF stuff mostly.

IE: being a fossil silver plated Amphenol.
 
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cistercian

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It's the "screwing" part he's into. ;)

Some people like rack mount gear! I don't have any racks but some of my stuff is meant for them!
In my experience some of the coolest gear comes ready for the rack.
 

bloodshoteyed

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I mean, I understand we're social creatures, and this sort of isolation that tech and cities have brought suck the higher up your apartment number is in a building. Here in NYC, you see people spend their whole week working, and then going home working, and then to sleep. But come the weekend, if work doesn't intrude there as well - they go out and get smashed & hammered like it's their last week on Earth. Trying to make up for what is evidently lots of social neglect throughout the week. Some get it in that weekend, some don't and is why they overdrink from what I've seen.

you'd very much enjoy the finns, then
 

bloodshoteyed

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and regarding the topic...
i remember seeing/hearing the old blue snails (b&w nautilus) in a dealers shop, drooling and being afraid to go closer than 2m
i don't think something like that will ever happen to me again anytime soon, simply of the lack of physical shops and even more, the stuff being on display there
 

Mnyb

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I think the train has left the station so to speak .

For every audiophool a typical high-end shop hook on the bait they probably scare away >10 normal people that justs wants a stereo :rolleyes:.
The audiophool himself probably scares away even more people among friends and familly whos sees the obsession consume them..

If they seen it comming a couple of decades ago , this could still be a respectable hobby not filled with OCD basket cases with issues... and over expensive products with performance worse then wallmart type 50$ DVD players .

Kudos to those who try to turn the tide . If it succeds i think the actual market is much bigger than the current audiophool market :).
Normal people could buy a sound system without joining a cult. You dont have to join a weird belief system to buy furniture or cars ?
 

sergeauckland

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I think the train has left the station so to speak .

For every audiophool a typical high-end shop hook on the bait they probably scare away >10 normal people that justs wants a stereo :rolleyes:.
The audiophool himself probably scares away even more people among friends and familly whos sees the obsession consume them..

If they seen it comming a couple of decades ago , this could still be a respectable hobby not filled with OCD basket cases with issues... and over expensive products with performance worse then wallmart type 50$ DVD players .

Kudos to those who try to turn the tide . If it succeds i think the actual market is much bigger than the current audiophool market :).
Normal people could buy a sound system without joining a cult. You dont have to join a weird belief system to buy furniture or cars ?
There's a lot of sense in that, but sadly, with the exception of loudspeakers, the $50 Wallmart DVD player equivalent is as good as it needs to be , and that market has gone on-line, to Amazon or even direct from China. As to loudspeakers, 'normal' people no longer see them as essential items of furniture to be accommodated, like a sofa or table, but as something undesirable hence the popularity of Bluetooth 'speakers and/or Alexas.

I wish it were different, when there were several hifi shops plus one or two electronic component shops in every town, but like horse and carts, that's gone, I think forever.

S
 

Mnyb

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I think the train has left the station so to speak .

For every audiophool a typical high-end shop hook on the bait they probably scare away >10 normal people that justs wants a stereo :rolleyes:.
The audiophool himself probably scares away even more people among friends and familly whos sees the obsession consume them..

If they seen it comming a couple of decades ago , this could still be a respectable hobby not filled with OCD basket cases with issues... and over expensive products with performance worse then wallmart type 50$ DVD players .

Kudos to those who try to turn the tide . If it succeds i think the actual market is much bigger than the current audiophool market :).
Normal people could buy a sound system without joining a cult. You dont have to join a weird belief system to buy furniture or cars ?

Maybe i have to explain , I have myself being ridden by this affliction beleiving in voodoo cables and all the stuff and probably being a very anoying friend obsessing over my hifi all the time :facepalm: so it takes one to know one ....
 

Mnyb

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It would still be a niche hobby but a bigger niche if things where more sane .

You have gaming kitesurfing motorbikes etc hiking adn whatnot . If the voodoo aspect would be removed it would be a more inclusive hobby for friends and familly (they would not think our weird and scary like a cult person ) .
And cost would not be prohibitive . The speakers may still cost something but electronics not so much , but it would fit well inside a middle classs familys budget and not cause grief .

The start of the headphone hifi trend was positive to begin with , not so expensive stuff (it's still not expensive compared to speakers and amplifiers) lot of computer and gaming young people that did not buy the cr*p , but it is also filled with fud nowadays ? but still a bit better than the classical audiophile stuff with 200k$ premaps.
 
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