Did you try "Idagio" only classical cd quality... I love it.Having tried quite a few I ended up not using streamed music much because of the inconvenience of finding files for classical music using the standard tagging system. Some people have spent a long time re-tagging to make it useful, I can't be bothered so I mainly play CDs and LPs.
For the occasion I do use streaming I either use Qobuz on my Macbook streamed using Devialet AIR to my Devialet amplifier, or pop music on my iMac to its USB input.
I Play CDs every day, LPs infrequently, Qobuz most days and streaming only every now and again.
I wouldn't change this if it was all free. My experience is that all properly engineered digital front ends sound either the same or so close it makes no difference.
Most of my dissatisfaction is in the area of tagging and multiple different file formats and playing software, not sound quality.
What is your choice if everything was free for a dac/streamer?
To close the circle for me, starting with a known accurate system allows me to tweak for the sound I like across the spectrum of recordings and genre. Starting with an inaccurate system just means more work for me to establish a solid baseline from which to tweak.
What's the consensus on here for a totl dac streamer? Looking for something for my new system that measures well. That doesn't mean is has to cost uber money. Totl performance can be had for much less it seams. I'm looking for the price point.
.I'm only concerned with making a 2 channel system that sounds great and filtering through how much I actually need to spend to accomplish that and where in the system to allocate the most money
@Grizzlily
You are right, this is probably not the perfect forum to talk about subjective matters
Having said that, yes I have installed the V2 firmware to the Rossini, so it now uses DSDx2 upsampling instead of DSDx1. I find it sounds different, I would even say, I prefer the new V2.
Before anyone here yells foul, no I have not done a statistically valid ABX to prove this.
However I have had another experience recently, which I find interesting.
I had the new Neukomm DAC over (Neukomm is a niche Swiss manufacturer). It is ES9028PRO based and I compared it to my Weiss DAC 202 (ES9018 based). If find the two sound very similar (again no ABX). However upon switching over to the dCS Rossini, I found that it sounds VERY different. The soundstage is very different. While the Neukomm and the Weiss project an image akin to sitting in row 15 at a classical concert, the dCS creates a soundstage akin to sitting in row 1 (a bit like sitting inside a huge headphone, being "inside" the soundstage). The row 1 and row 15 analogy came from my wife. I then also connected Chord Hugo 2 to the system and found its soundstage to be somewhere in the middle between the two chip based DACs and the Rossini.
Earlier in this thread we were debating why different DACs sound different.
It seems to me bits are bits, but bits are only bits until they get to the DAC part. Then they get upsampled, oversampled, time corrected, linear phased, minimum phased, what have you. My current conclusion at this point is that
Could it be that dCS / Chord / Playback Designs and others use their own magic sauce to make their DACs sound different / better? Measurements of Hugo 2 by Amir do not support this theory, but I asked before whether we are measuring the right thing (i.e. does what is happening in one channel influence what happens in the other, as it should if soundstage is being "enhanced").
- Good DACs using a similar chipset without any proprietary processing will likely sound very similar, given the only difference is the output stage
- The developer of a DAC using proprietary processing has complete freedom to tailor the sound any way he / she likes
Daniel Weiss has put DSP functionality such as crosstalk cancellation in his DAC502 (also discussed in this forum). The DSP functionality without DAC is now also available as the DSP502 and Daniel is working on a plugin version.
It seems to me that the differences I am hearing (and my hearing is that of a >60 years old) are so substantial that minute differences in filters (such as a minimal phase shift) would not explain them. I suspect some kind of DSP stuff may be at work here.
Back to @Grizzlily 's question: If you would like to extent the life of your dCS stack, then the network bridge will certainly do that from a functional perspective. It will give you ethernet streaming, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz (through Roon), DSD to PCM conversion. Whether it will influence the sound, I have no idea.
Maybe my ears are not golden but after carefully level matched comparisons I could not tell the differences between DACs I have compared.@Grizzlily
You are right, this is probably not the perfect forum to talk about subjective matters
Having said that, yes I have installed the V2 firmware to the Rossini, so it now uses DSDx2 upsampling instead of DSDx1. I find it sounds different, I would even say, I prefer the new V2.
Before anyone here yells foul, no I have not done a statistically valid ABX to prove this.
However I have had another experience recently, which I find interesting.
I had the new Neukomm DAC over (Neukomm is a niche Swiss manufacturer). It is ES9028PRO based and I compared it to my Weiss DAC 202 (ES9018 based). If find the two sound very similar (again no ABX). However upon switching over to the dCS Rossini, I found that it sounds VERY different. The soundstage is very different. While the Neukomm and the Weiss project an image akin to sitting in row 15 at a classical concert, the dCS creates a soundstage akin to sitting in row 1 (a bit like sitting inside a huge headphone, being "inside" the soundstage). The row 1 and row 15 analogy came from my wife. I then also connected Chord Hugo 2 to the system and found its soundstage to be somewhere in the middle between the two chip based DACs and the Rossini.
Earlier in this thread we were debating why different DACs sound different.
It seems to me bits are bits, but bits are only bits until they get to the DAC part. Then they get upsampled, oversampled, time corrected, linear phased, minimum phased, what have you. My current conclusion at this point is that
Could it be that dCS / Chord / Playback Designs and others use their own magic sauce to make their DACs sound different / better? Measurements of Hugo 2 by Amir do not support this theory, but I asked before whether we are measuring the right thing (i.e. does what is happening in one channel influence what happens in the other, as it should if soundstage is being "enhanced").
- Good DACs using a similar chipset without any proprietary processing will likely sound very similar, given the only difference is the output stage
- The developer of a DAC using proprietary processing has complete freedom to tailor the sound any way he / she likes
Daniel Weiss has put DSP functionality such as crosstalk cancellation in his DAC502 (also discussed in this forum). The DSP functionality without DAC is now also available as the DSP502 and Daniel is working on a plugin version.
It seems to me that the differences I am hearing (and my hearing is that of a >60 years old) are so substantial that minute differences in filters (such as a minimal phase shift) would not explain them. I suspect some kind of DSP stuff may be at work here.
Back to @Grizzlily 's question: If you would like to extent the life of your dCS stack, then the network bridge will certainly do that from a functional perspective. It will give you ethernet streaming, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz (through Roon), DSD to PCM conversion. Whether it will influence the sound, I have no idea.
I find it also relating to the particular recording I happen to throw on that day. A good recording seems to put me more in the mood to appreciate the system.In the long term my system sounds better some days than others. I have no idea why, probably more to do with my mood than hardware,
I find it also relating to the particular recording I happen to throw on that day. A good recording seems to put me more in the mood to appreciate the system.
It's taken me too long to work out that if my impression yesterday was that my system was a bit off, and I hadn't been making changes recently, to start the next days listening with something that sounds great, it like a reset button.I find it also relating to the particular recording I happen to throw on that day. A good recording seems to put me more in the mood to appreciate the system.
I do very amateur stereo microphone recordings (no close micing). I love the results but I would be interested in finding out other ways that of doing it that aren't time consuming.Maybe my ears are not golden but after carefully level matched comparisons I could not tell the differences between DACs I have compared.
Maybe my system isn't resolving enough .
OTOH it is resolving enough to hear differences between microphones and microphone positions in my own recordings.
I also hear clear differences between my 4 turntables and also changing pickup cartridge.
I am 100% sure that you can't reliably tell one thing from another by ear over the long term, ie if you don't have 2 Rossinis, one with V1 firmware and the other with V2 and compare them using the same music file any difference you think you may hear is not reliably there.
In the long term my system sounds better some days than others. I have no idea why, probably more to do with my mood than hardware, but if I had changed a component in the meantime I may well judge that the sound was better or worse because of this, which would be wrong.
Maybe my ears are not golden but after carefully level matched comparisons I could not tell the differences between DACs I have compared.
I have a dCS P8i, an early one of there’s in a simpler, hence cheaper, enclosure.I offered a theory in my post as to why I could be hearing these substantial differences in soundstaging, which I do not find subtle or hard to hear at all. No golden ears needed.
Question: Have you compared other DACs to dCS gear (not meant in a flippant manner).
I would subscribe immediately to the view that DACs, whose designers do not willingly introduce a particular sound signature / soundstage dimensionality (through DSP) in their product sound very similar, probably to the point where you cannot easily tell them apart. This was the case with the Weiss DAC202 and the Neukomm DAC. Identical for practical purposes. A Benchmark DAC3 or an RME ADI2 DAC would probably be the same.
However the dCS is so different in its presentation, that the only explanation I have is that dCS willingly tailor the filters to achieve their "house sound". It is a very beautiful sound and a fascinating soundstage, but it is definitely not like the other DACs I listened to (see also my descriptions on the evaluation sessions earlier in this thread). And dCS always refer to their unique FPGA based filters.
That sound can be manipulated is obvious. Daniel Weiss specifically includes DSP functionality in his DAC502 for this very purpose. I am sure no one on this forum will claim that a DAC502 with DSP engaged will sound the same as any other DAC.
Pls note that I am not claiming "neutral" or "colored" is better or worse.
Different filters do sound different. I am just surprised at the amount of difference I am hearing. And the thing is that none of the dCS filters makes the Rossini sound like the other two DACs.I have a dCS P8i, an early one of there’s in a simpler, hence cheaper, enclosure.
I can confirm that the different filters sound different, but, for me, this is no surprise since they change the frequency response.
I did not know about any DSP being added recently, I must look into that.
The dCS was very good, but no different to the others using the filter which complies most closely with the Nyquist-Shannon theorem IME.
I have heard the dCS kit quite often, my local dealer sells it.
Thanks, KeithYou should try comparing two oversampling DACs without knowing which one is playing ask a friend to switch inputs, report back.
Keith
That is not a test I would try to do at a dealers, only at home, but I have heard the dCS kit often and found it excellent sounding but not at a higher level than I hear at home myself. There has never been a "I must get a home demo" moment with it.Are you saying that the dCS at your dealers' sound pretty much like the other DACs he has in the store?