Haven't read it yet. Sasha Frere-Jones (an excellent music writer) writes about the world of audiophiles (mainly concerning: loudspeakers) . On first glance I see mostly subjectivists. And search for the word 'blind' comes up empty. 
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Corner Club Cathedral Cocoon: Audiophilia and Its Discontents (Harper's Dec 2022)
- Thread starter krabapple
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You should RTFA before posting facepalm emoji! The author is critical (or at least skeptical) of the "annoying milieu" of subjectivist audiophiles, and also goes into some detail about its history and proponents. I would say this is probably the best article on "audiophile culture" by an outsider that I've read, mainly because I haven't read many (any?) - but it's a good bit of perspective on the hobby / subculture.
Just read it. It’s interesting. A bit too credulous of the triode/horn school, which is its subject. And he went to Guttenberg and bought Klipsch on his recommendation, without doing any comparison shopping. Terrible example to set.Haven't read it yet. Sasha Frere-Jones (an excellent music writer) writes about the world of audiophiles (mainly concerning: loudspeakers) . On first glance I see mostly subjectivists. And search for the word 'blind' comes up empty.
[apologies for initially misgendering the author. unless I just did it now]
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- Thread Starter
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I love Sasha Frere-Jones's work and this article is beautifully written and pretty well researched. He hit upon the critiques of 'fidelity' and 'transparency'. and 'accurate sound'. His classification into corner, cathedral, club, cocoon, is inspired. But he's also pretty well unquestioningly bought into a lot of the usual audiophile hoo-hah. SET amps. Horn speakers. Herb Reichert. That twat at Ojas. Steve Gutenberg. Japanese audiophilia. Expensive means better sound.
There are whole dimensions of audiophilia -- and loudspeakers in particular -- and viewpoints that he missed. Obviously, ASR represents one of those.
I'm happy he found some Klipsch bookshelf speakers for $350, though. Has Amir measured that model so we can know how it really sounds??
There are whole dimensions of audiophilia -- and loudspeakers in particular -- and viewpoints that he missed. Obviously, ASR represents one of those.
I'm happy he found some Klipsch bookshelf speakers for $350, though. Has Amir measured that model so we can know how it really sounds??
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From our point of view, Frere-Jones didn't come to the "right" conclusion, to be sure. But I think this is a really valuable piece in that it shows us the thought process of someone being introduced to some of this stuff (for better or worse) for the first time.I love Sasha Frere-Jones's work and this article is beautifully written and pretty well researched. He hit upon the critiques of 'fidelity' and 'transparency'. and 'accurate sound'. His classification into corner, cathedral, club, cocoon, is inspired. But he's also pretty well unquestioningly bought into a lot of the usual audiophile hoo-hah. SET amps. Horn speakers. Herb Reichert. That twat at Ojas. Steve Gutenberg. Japanese audiophilia. Expensive means better sound.
There are whole dimensions of audiophilia -- and loudspeakers in particular -- that he missed. Obviously, ASR represents one of those dimensions
I'm happy he found some Klipsch bookshelf speakers for $350, though. Has Amir measured that model so we can know how it really sounds??
Realistically, the way most people buy audio gear is this:
1) Realize they want to listen to music in a location they currently can't listen to music.
2) They ask someone they consider knowledgeable what to buy
3) They buy it.
Sometimes step 2 involves reading reviews, but the person in question would have no way of knowing which reviews are credible, and they often just read them on Amazon.
This is basically what we see play out in the article. If we want to see good audio proliferate, we need to understand how to make sites and reviews like ASR a more prominent fixture in the average person's step 2.
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I love Sasha Frere-Jones's work and this article is beautifully written and pretty well researched. He hit upon the critiques of 'fidelity' and 'transparency'. and 'accurate sound'. His classification into corner, cathedral, club, cocoon, is inspired. But he's also pretty well unquestioningly bought into a lot of the usual audiophile hoo-hah. SET amps. Horn speakers. Herb Reichert. That twat at Ojas. Steve Gutenberg. Japanese audiophilia. Expensive means better sound.
There are whole dimensions of audiophilia -- and loudspeakers in particular -- and viewpoints that he missed. Obviously, ASR represents one of those.
I'm happy he found some Klipsch bookshelf speakers for $350, though. Has Amir measured that model so we can know how it really sounds??
Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review. I purchased them from Amazon a couple of weeks ago. The current cost on Amazon is US $629 including Prime shipping. I however found a refurbished one for $450 I think. It looks brand new in the box though...
www.audiosciencereview.com
He was poorly advised by Guttenburg. Very poor speakers. Imagine how happy he might be with some JBL LSR 308's instead. Then again the pretty looking Klipsch and the idea they had some commonality with legendary Klipsch speakers of old are a powerful mental boost.
Also pretty funny idea that whomever designed those Klipsch speakers were informed by their experience of K-horns, Cornwalls etc.
- Thread Starter
- #7
I agree, step 2 is so determinative of one's mindset at the start. It can take years to extricate oneself from 'someone knowledgeable's' sincere but dubious advice.
Hear, hear.
But imagine you are approaching SF-J now. Would you suggest to him that he could do better than a Klipsch bookshelf speaker, for the same cash outlay? What would be your evidence? "Go look at these measurements on ASR?" Inform him of Toole/Olive research? Or start with the concept of blind listening?
There's a real chance he'd shut it down as 'scientism'. We've seen people do that even here.
I'd probably tell him "you should write an article about this counterculture of audiophiles who are insistent on objective performance above all... this one dude measures a bunch of gear and publishes the raw numbers, like 1000 reviews and counting... check it out - those triode guys HATE him." - but in all seriousness, you can't just tell someone they chose wrong. You have to excite their curiosity about how they could do better.
He's happy with the Klipsch, so in one sense, mission accomplished. In another sense, a missed opportunity. People have FOMO about that and, of course, that is how the audiophile rabbit hole takes shape for a person. But people will emotionally double down if you attack their choice after they've made it. In a sense, if you want them to open their minds to better audio, you have to have them attack their own choice via envy, FOMO, etc. How to do that isn't super obvious, though.
The real question is not how to talk people out of opinions they already have (as you note, virtually impossible) but how to make sure ASR or ASR-like information is the first stop on their journey. At that point, it will take care of itself.
Clearly, we need to open our own kissa, the ASR version of the Meikyoku Lion: https://thevinylfactory.com/features/meikyoku-kissa-lion-tokyo/
What would it look like? Clearly it would have some blades, salons, or Genelecs in it. But I worry y’all wouldn’t make the aesthetics inviting to the non-audiophile.
Aesthetics are pretty key. If that Ojas guy is right about anything, it's that cool looking, big speakers sound better. Rachel Ray says we eat with our eyes first, and the truth is, everyone listens with their eyes first too, which is why DBTs are so important. But manufacturers working against that by ignoring aesthetics of gear is as foolish as consumers buying gear on looks alone.
There's a jazz kissa ("japanese jazz bar") in Oakland called Bar Shiru, I'm going to try and visit sometime soon. They have tube amps, vinyl, and Line Magnetic’s LM-812. It was written up in TAS (eyeroll) and check this line: "“As soon as Dan and Shirin shared with us the visuals of what all the various speakers looked like, we knew these had to feature prominently in the space,” - the owners made big audio decisions based on looks. In the wider world, looks matter much more than we usually care to admit here.
(To that end I would never put Genelecs in a bar. They look too much like the bad guys in Portal.)
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I went to one of those places in Tokyo. Very cool place to hang out, unimpressed with the sound.
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- #12
Not a 'kissa', but NYC has 'audiophile' bars too
I’ve heard about that place, but not yet visited.Not a 'kissa', but NYC has 'audiophile' bars too
Those look like more wacky wooden horns, but apparently Danleys. https://thevinylfactory.com/news/new-audiophile-bar-opened-nyc-eavesdrop-brooklyn/
AlfaNovember
Member
I'm excited to hear about Bar Shiru in Oakland; I wish it were a little closer to my side of San Francisco. However in all honesty, I suspect we Yanks are culturally disinclined to third-space places which are both social AND hushed. It's hard enough to find a bar without a drive-in television.
Punter
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The Oswalds Mill Audio speakers mentioned in the article.
and the turntable...
Here's the bio of Mr Weiss.
Jonathan Weiss, born in New York City, studied International Relations and Political Philosophy at Princeton University, and Public International Law at London School of Economics. After years of travel Weiss changed direction and became a filmmaker. He produced and directed a full length feature adaptation of J.G. Ballard's infamous non narrative novel, The Atrocity Exhibition into a similarly non narrative film. After discovering Oswald's Mill in Eastern Pennsylvania, a vast restoration project, he embarked on a new direction for audio with OMA.
Damn! He's overqualified!
Here's the bio of Mr Weiss.
Jonathan Weiss, born in New York City, studied International Relations and Political Philosophy at Princeton University, and Public International Law at London School of Economics. After years of travel Weiss changed direction and became a filmmaker. He produced and directed a full length feature adaptation of J.G. Ballard's infamous non narrative novel, The Atrocity Exhibition into a similarly non narrative film. After discovering Oswald's Mill in Eastern Pennsylvania, a vast restoration project, he embarked on a new direction for audio with OMA.
Damn! He's overqualified!
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That was a cool article. Thanks. I’m always intrigued reading about non-audiophiles encountering audiophile set ups. Whatever ASR may think of the big horns/tube stuff it’s clear he found the encounter pretty transformative.
Well, I like big horns. A lot. But you can do a whole lot better than those. Still, the article is interesting for his impressions.
Never been a tube sound guy, though. I guess I missed the memo. I can believe the simple triode amps give euphonic distortion if you like that kind of thing, as long as the level is low and the material is very simple musically. At higher levels or with complicated mixes you'll get a wall of intermod.
Never been a tube sound guy, though. I guess I missed the memo. I can believe the simple triode amps give euphonic distortion if you like that kind of thing, as long as the level is low and the material is very simple musically. At higher levels or with complicated mixes you'll get a wall of intermod.
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Yeah, but Danley knows what he's doing as far as the shape of the horns. Not just some boards strapped together into a conical planter
JayGilb
Major Contributor
It was a very well written article. The author had access to people that most others could not reach, let alone being invited to their dwellings to get personal recommendations.
Interesting journey nonetheless. .
