Cordial CFU and Ceon Review (Cables) and more

[AudioSceptic]

Hello Everyone, this is a quick review and detailed measurements of the Cordial CFU and Ceon cables, and a little more.

View attachment 527473

A friend of mine asked me what are the cables I use for my (analog) measurements. And I went Cordial cables simply because my preferred local shop is selling them. This question, together with the recent review of Amir about some Kimber Cables, made me want to go a bit deeper, and perform some measurements, of course

The above photo shows all cables I included for this quick review, to make a bit more interesting.

There are the two Cordial cables (those with the TS end) that I regularly use:

• Cordial CFU labeled as a "pro audio low noise cable" (the black one).
• Cordial Ceon which is "DJ" cable, meaning flashy for the ease of identification, and very flexible. It is my default cable.

The other cables are no-name ones that I got with devices I bought here and there. They include:

• Standard RCA cable (1m) with golden connectors (the one with the white ends)
• Very basic RCA cable (3m) probably very old too
• An AliExpress cable said to resemble an old McIntosh interconnect, included as a gift by the seller when I bought a genuine McIntosh amplifier

Last and not least to complement this list, I travelled to France recently, went to a Shopping Center (Leclerc), and bought the cheapest of their RCA cable, 1.5m for 2.78€. This is a photo of this one with the Cordial Ceon:

View attachment 527474


Measurements

I followed the review of the Kimber Cables from Amir, and so I went only for few measurements, including the standard "SINAD" dashboard, bandwidth, jitter and square.

My setup is very simple, the computer (REW Software) drives a Topping D50III converter (used as the generator) and the RCA output of the Topping is measured by my usual Cosmos combo Scaler + ADCiso Grade 0. All of these items run on batteries.

So it is: REW Software (generator) -> Topping D50II (DAC) -> RCA Cable Under Test -> Cosmos combo (ADC) -> REW (FFT analyzis)

I set the D50III to output 2Vrms.

Let's start by measuring with my usual Cordial Ceon, as it is the one I prefer using. The below is a 1kHz sine @0dBFS:

View attachment 527477

As you can see, the calculated SINAD (opposite of THD+N in the above dashboard) is identical to what Amir measured in his review of the Topping D50III (121.4dB), the only difference is that I get the same results from the Left or Right channel of the Topping (0.1dB difference only).

For this measurements, I set the Topping to 48kHz sampling rate, FFT length was 32k and I used 4 averages, and that is to replicate the setup of Amir's AudioPrecision (3 averages instead of 4, though, as I can't select 3).

The unweighted SNR calculated in presence of that Full Scale (0dBFS) test tone is a crazy low 122.3dBr. This is state of the art and if a cable would make a difference, that level of precision would allow us to easily spot that.

And as a matter of facts, at that level of precision, almost anything makes a difference. For instance I got better results when the battery pack powering the ADC was at least 50cm away from it, while I usually just put it below...

Let's run the same measurement switching to the Cordial CFU:

View attachment 527482

The THD+N remains -121.4dB (meaning a SINAD of 121.4dB). The measurement is therefore nearly the same, maybe that 50Hz little spike went down from -145dbr to below what can be measured with that FFT length.

During my measurements and attempts to reach the lowest level of noise, I noticed that the Ceon was more likely to pick up noise than the CFU, but never to the point of reaching an audible level, only something I don't want in the context of high precision measurements.

Let's continue with the basic 1m RCA cable that has golden connectors:

View attachment 527487

Nice, even a little better than the two Cordial cables. This is 0.1dB better of SINAD, not relevant and likely due to the shorter length of the cable.

It is anyways good to see that a standard RCA does the job perfectly well, and does not get in the way of the highly resolved Topping DAC.

Next is the other very basic 3m RCA cable from probably 20+ years ago:

View attachment 527490

Hey, very nice too, same as the Cordial. That probably means I lose 0.1dB of SINAD with 3m cable instead of 1m.

Let's continue with the pseudo McIntosh cable from Ali:

View attachment 527491

This is the same result as the Cordial Ceon. Note that this cable is stiff and heavy, everything but practical to use.

Last is the cheap one I got from France:

View attachment 527493

Finally we get to see something!
This one is picking up some mains (50Hz) and harmonics from I don't know where since all devices run on batteries. There was nothing I could do to reduce this and I tried a lot of potential solutions (disconnecting all other surrounding devices, using an additional USB isolator, placing the cable differently, etc...).

Anyways, the SINAD degrades a little to a still extremely good 120.7dB which would keep the DAC in the "Excellent" category of Amir's chart. At least we have one cable that shows a little difference, yet of no importance...

----

As @amirm did with the Kimber cable test, let's continue with the bandwidth up to 200kHz. The below is an overlay of all cables:

View attachment 527494
Despite my usual zoom, they are the same. I did zoom much more and saw a very little 0.01dB difference between the "best" and "worst" cables at 200kHz.

Same in time domain, with a 20kHz square as Amir did with the Kimber test (but bandwidth is limited to 384kHz in my case). Results are identical between the best and the worst cable. For that reason, I show only one measurement, since all are exactly the same:

View attachment 527495

The ringing is due to the filter of the Topping (I'm not using a super resolved Generator as Amir with the AP) and a bandwidth limited to 384kHz (my maximum) instead of 500kHz.

----

Let me add a quick standard Jitter Test between the worst and best cable (FFT extended to 512k and 32 averages to visually lower the random noise):

View attachment 527498

I zoomed to better see potential side bands. The two traces overlay nearly perfectly, i.e. no difference.


Conclusion

Nothing new under the sun, I know.

Cables would make a difference if one had a massive issue, being incorrectly built, or of an extremely high length, placed next to a switching power, ...

In the end, buy what pleases you, for the convenience, the look, the price, ... and enjoy your music.

Have a nice WE!

As expected. I confess that I've spent more on cables than I needed to, mostly because of looks and wanting to "play safe", but at least I didn't spend silly money. How does a company like Nordost get away with what they do, for instance? I know, "a fool and his money...", but I have a problem imagining anyone that stupid having access to more than a few $/£/€ in the first place <https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/nordost-cables/nordost-audio-cables>.

 

[DavidM1]

As expected. I confess that I've spent more on cables than I needed to, mostly because of looks and wanting to "play safe", but at least I didn't spend silly money. How does a company like Nordost get away with what they do, for instance? I know, "a fool and his money...", but I have a problem imagining anyone that stupid having access to more than a few $/£/€ in the first place <https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/nordost-cables/nordost-audio-cables>.

This lack of integrity had me stepping away from anything to do with hifi for years. Guru retailers and nonsense products just left me cold.

ASR was such a welcome find. I now have a balanced digital system with THD+N way below the limits of human hearing feeding the speakers. What's more, I can compare the test result myself and know what I own.

 

[OrangeWalrus]

How does a company like Nordost get away with what they do, for instance? I know, "a fool and his money...", but I have a problem imagining anyone that stupid having access to more than a few $/£/€ in the first place <https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/nordost-cables/nordost-audio-cables>.

The better way to think of this is from a high end installer's perspective. After selling a client on some $50,000 monoblocks and $100,000 speakers, it's easy enough to add $10,000 worth of cables. Not only will the customer not mind because it is a low percentage of the total, but the cables will be visually consistent with the high priced equipment (like jewelry for audio gear) and pad the installer's fee which is a percentage of the total. The cables are the equivalent of Best Buy selling extended warranties.

I'm not saying that individual enthusiasts don't occasionally buy this stuff, but I don't think they are the primary customer. The installer of high end equipment is the real customer.

 

[AudioSceptic]

The better way to think of this is from a high end installer's perspective. After selling a client on some $50,000 monoblocks and $100,000 speakers, it's easy enough to add $10,000 worth of cables. Not only will the customer not mind because it is a low percentage of the total, but the cables will be visually consistent with the high priced equipment (like jewelry for audio gear) and pad the installer's fee which is a percentage of the total. The cables are the equivalent of Best Buy selling extended warranties.

I'm not saying that individual enthusiasts don't occasionally buy this stuff, but I don't think they are the primary customer. The installer of high end equipment is the real customer.

You might be right, and it would be good to know just who are the main buyers of "boutique" cables (not that those shysters can be trusted with *any* figures they might divulge).

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I have no problem with people believing in the virtues of a cable, but it is difficult to establish a dialogue when their only argument is 'it's true because I hear it'... then we are talking about bad faith.

Ok. Personally, I’ve never been crazy enough to spend big money on cables. I know that would be ridiculous. I do make sure that I buy quality cables, quality connections, often times pro stuff. It is sad that people take advantage of audiophiles and try to sell multi thousand dollar cables. Better equipment, speakers, etc. can have value, but cables, and crazy tweaks in my opinion makes a little sense.

But… I think, sometimes unfairly people lump these together. As soon as the conversation starts about sound quality or value of a product, people will jump in with a whole bunch of cable rip off comments. The cable and tweak industry should not reflect on other audio purchases IMO. One is pure snake oil and the other sometimes is what people value as important. We can disagree, but I think it’s not good to lump total charlatans together with different perspectives on the hobby.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Hello Florent,

On French forums the topic of cables is very often forbidden because it generates endless discussions that can be summed up by "man hears what no measurement can measure!!...". Personally, I think a properly built cable is sufficient without going into the craziness you can read about the "magical" properties of certain cables.

I have always found the "I can hear what can't be measured" assertions very odd because it begs a very important question:

What do these people think a microphone and recording equipment is? How do they think musical recordings get made?

If it's not being captured by measurement equipment, it's also almost certainly not being captured by a microphone and recording console, which is just measurement equipment of a slightly different sort.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Ok. Personally, I’ve never been crazy enough to spend big money on cables. I know that would be ridiculous. I do make sure that I buy quality cables, quality connections, often times pro stuff. It is sad that people take advantage of audiophiles and try to sell multi thousand dollar cables. Better equipment, speakers, etc. can have value, but cables, and crazy tweaks in my opinion makes a little sense.

But… I think, sometimes unfairly people lump these together. As soon as the conversation starts about sound quality or value of a product, people will jump in with a whole bunch of cable rip off comments. The cable and tweak industry should not reflect on other audio purchases IMO. One is pure snake oil and the other sometimes is what people value as important. We can disagree, but I think it’s not good to lump total charlatans together with different perspectives on the hobby.

I once got into this argument with a friend because I have always been firmly in the "cables don't matter" camp, and he couldn't figure out why, when I bought a new receiver back in 2007 or thereabouts, I dropped about $75 on Belkin interconnects (two sets of RCA stereo cables, a couple of 75ohm video cables to use as digital audio connects, a mono sub cable - worked out to about $20 per cable all together).

They're well-constructed, flexible cables with solid but not-too-tight RCA connectors that stay in place. And I'm still using those cables almost 20 years later.

I don't think they sound any different from the RCA cables that came in the box with my CD player but I'm happy to pay a few dollars for reliability and useability.

 

[AndyZ]

NTTY tjanks for testing, If you test cables in the future can you test capacitance, it cab affect frequency response when connected between a turntable and phono a preamp. Many high end cable suppliers leave out this information when selling cable specifically for this use. Mid priced cables such as those from Blue Jeans cable and WBC typically provide this information.

 

[xanalog]

Thank you, @NTTY,

OnTrack: I like 'em big, hefty and designed like a brick-sh*t-house.
Cables, that is!

 

[Endibol]

NTTY tjanks for testing, If you test cables in the future can you test capacitance, it cab affect frequency response when connected between a turntable and phono a preamp. Many high end cable suppliers leave out this information when selling cable specifically for this use. Mid priced cables such as those from Blue Jeans cable and WBC typically provide this .

Decent phono cable manufacturers like Pro-Ject do supply capacitance data, snake oil manufacturers like Audioquest don’t.
My advice: only by phono cables from manufacturers providing solid technical data.

 

[NTTY]

Cordial provides that information for the CFU but strangely not for the Ceon.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Decent phono cable manufacturers like Pro-Ject do supply capacitance data, snake oil manufacturers like Audioquest don’t.
My advice: only by phono cables from manufacturers providing solid technical data.

The lower the signal level, the more critical the cable specifications may become.

 

[DavidM1]

The cable and tweak industry should not reflect on other audio purchases IMO.

And that’s where measurements come in.

I don’t see much difference in the performance of good quality DACs or streamers. Where the features are much the same, the high priced ends of those markets deserve to be in the same category as cable spivs.

As for whether someone enjoys valves vs solid state for amps? Phono vs digital download? Those preferences make more sense because the differences can be audible and the interaction with the product isn’t the same.

Measurements help us make choices but they are still our choices to make.

 

[Endibol]

The lower the signal level, the more critical the cable specifications may become.

No, the noise/distorsion produced by cables is lower than the lowest audible sound levels.

 

[wwenze]

The lower the signal level, the more critical the cable specifications may become.

Perform this experiment: If you turn down the volume of your line out, does the sound change?

 

[yuki]

I know some people are hopelessly running down this rabbit hole of cables and there is nothing that can be said, done or otherwise to show them the truth but this review/bench test is needed nevertheless.

I will attempt to add few words of logic and reason to this cause:

Noticed that there are no cable companies that discloses the technical specificities of how their cables would sound different using legitimate science to explain (science that can be cross referenced and checked in science text books)?

How and what would make a cable give you a "wider soundstage" or "fuller bass" or "more organic"? If you can't explain it, then how did you make it?

Yes, some will cite "skin affect" or "timing domain" coherency, but if you look deeper, that is not applicable to audio cables, akin to citing "escape velocity" when talking about a car.

Connect a cable that looks the part, and mentally, your SINAD drops to -100 million. That’s just the human condition!

 

[Kevinfc]

This isn't about denigration, but about observing a staggering decline in the intellectual level of the French (I've lived in France for 35 years). Remaining silent about these observations is like pissing on our brains...

I wonder what that could be because of ? I’m stumped.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Perform this experiment: If you turn down the volume of your line out, does the sound change?

Maybe you misunderstand what I’m saying. Lowest signal level like a Moving coil cartridge, a moving coil transformer or moving coil stage, etc. That’s what I mean. Take it from there lower level than moving forward the higher level nothing about lower volume. Cable specs can make more of a difference.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

No, the noise/distorsion produced by cables is lower than the lowest audible sounds.

I was not talking about noise and distortion. That wasn’t mentioned either.

 

[lini]

(...) In fact the English words rational, scientific and comparisons each have French origins. C’est la vie!

Not really - 'cause actually these words all have Latin roots (namely ratio, scientia/scire and comparatio/comparare). Pretty clever bunch, those old Romans...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini