Converting Stereo to Multi Channel

[Richx200]

Hello,

Is there a DWS or VST that would be able to convert two channel stereo to multichannel or even Dolby Atmos?

If so, how would it compare to an original multichannel recording ?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Is there a DWS or VST that would be able to convert two channel stereo to multichannel or even Dolby Atmos?

There are many. I can do that with Jriver.

If so, how would it compare to an original multichannel recording ?

Hah! It all depends on how and what the conversion does and how much effort the operator puts into it. If your goal is to recreate an original discrete multichannel recording, it is quite difficult and unlikely. Simulating it, to a degree, is possible.

 

[Richx200]

Thank you for your response.

The reason I'm asking is that I see multichannel as the next wave where the consumer gets screwed having to buy their music catalog again; vinyl to CD, CD to Hi Res, Hi Res back to Vinyl next multichannel ?

I have seen some of the new DWS coming out with a rudimentary AI for some effects, maybe multichannel will be on the list.

In the meantime, could you recommend a VST that would convert stereo to multichannel so I can get started?

Thank you

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The reason I'm asking is that I see multichannel as the next wave where the consumer gets screwed having to buy their music catalog again; vinyl to CD, CD to Hi Res, Hi Res back to Vinyl next multichannel ?

Next wave? I think you missed the boat. I have been collecting multichannel recordings for more than 20 years and the flow is only now slowing down. Multichannel is being supplanted by immersive (Atmos, Auro-3D, etc.) releases.

In the meantime, could you recommend a VST that would convert stereo to multichannel so I can get started?

Wish I could help but my exposure to them has been limited since I've been collecting the real thing. So, no personal experience, only from general knowledge. FWIW, almost all modern AVPs and AVRs will do up-mixing.

 

[DVDdoug]

Traditionally you can't "un mix" audio to make more channels (or to re-mix if you don't have the original multitrack recordings) but AI is getting smarter every day! There are tools that can do it to some extent but I don't think they work in real time. There is something called Spleeter for unmixing (separating different vocals and instruments) but you'd you'd have to make your own multi-channel (re)production. I assume there are some other tools too, but Spleeter is one I know of.

Most Audio/Video Receivers have "upmixing" modes. My older one has "hall" and "theater" settings that I like to use with regular stereo music. They create some delayed reverb in the rear for the "feel" of a bigger room.

Some multi-channel soundcards have similar effect/processing utilities.

The reason I'm asking is that I see multichannel as the next wave where the consumer gets screwed having to buy their music catalog again; vinyl to CD, CD to Hi Res, Hi Res back to Vinyl next multichannel ?

Most of the music I own will never be remixed in surround, and I'm not sure I'd like it unless it was similar to what I'm doing with upmixing, keeping the band in the front. And I'm old so I don't listen to much new music.

...And I'm NEVER going back to vinyl.

I do have a shelf-full of concert DVDs (and a few Blu-Rays) with true 5.1 surround. Most of the rear is probably "room sound" (reverb and applause) and the main vocals probably come from the center, but I haven't really "analyzed" the mixes. But I enjoy it and I always chose the surround over the stereo. I've never heard a guitar or vocal coming "artificially' from the rear or anything like that.

 

[Putter]

Traditionally you can't "un mix" audio to make more channels (or to re-mix if you don't have the original multitrack recordings) but AI is getting smarter every day! There are tools that can do it to some extent but I don't think they work in real time. There is something called Spleeter for unmixing (separating different vocals and instruments) but you'd you'd have to make your own multi-channel (re)production. I assume there are some other tools too, but Spleeter is one I know of.

Most Audio/Video Receivers have "upmixing" modes. My older one has "hall" and "theater" settings that I like to use with regular stereo music. They create some delayed reverb in the rear for the "feel" of a bigger room.

Some multi-channel soundcards have similar effect/processing utilities.


Most of the music I own will never be remixed in surround, and I'm not sure I'd like it unless it was similar to what I'm doing with upmixing, keeping the band in the front. And I'm old so I don't listen to much new music.

...And I'm NEVER going back to vinyl.

I do have a shelf-full of concert DVDs (and a few Blu-Rays) with true 5.1 surround. Most of the rear is probably "room sound" (reverb and applause) and the main vocals probably come from the center, but I haven't really "analyzed" the mixes. But I enjoy it and I always chose the surround over the stereo. I've never heard a guitar or vocal coming "artificially' from the rear or anything like that.

It is occasionally done. Quadrophenia bluray and the Chicago II Atmos come to mind the latter more successful in my mind although I put Quadrophenia with instruments coming from the back down to artistic license.

 

[sfogg]

Traditionally you can't "un mix" audio to make more channels (or to re-mix if you don't have the original multitrack recordings) but AI is getting smarter every day! There are tools that can do it to some extent but I don't think they work in real time. There is something called Spleeter for unmixing (separating different vocals and instruments) but you'd you'd have to make your own multi-channel (re)production. I assume there are some other tools too, but Spleeter is one I know of.

QuantumLogic Immersion does this real time. It breaks down the source into the streams and then breaks the streams down into original sound, first reflections and hall sounds. I don't think there is a product out there that gives you the control to remix it though, just using the presets built in.

Most Audio/Video Receivers have "upmixing" modes. My older one has "hall" and "theater" settings that I like to use with regular stereo music. They create some delayed reverb in the rear for the "feel" of a bigger room.

Those are ambiance generation which is adding reverb. Things like Dolby Pro Logic II or Logic 7 try to extract the ambiance from the recording itself. They work very well on music and pulling the hall sound out of the front and putting it into the sides and rears. Both were built for music.

 

[Richx200]

Next wave? I think you missed the boat. I have been collecting multichannel recordings for more than 20 years and the flow is only now slowing down. Multichannel is being supplanted by immersive (Atmos, Auro-3D, etc.) releases.

Wish I could help but my exposure to them has been limited since I've been collecting the real thing. So, no personal experience, only from general knowledge. FWIW, almost all modern AVPs and AVRs will do up-mixing.

I was referring to the more advanced multichannel formats the markets will be offering to get the consumer to replace their existing music catalog.

 

[Chrispy]

I was referring to the more advanced multichannel formats the markets will be offering to get the consumer to replace their existing music catalog.

What are those particularly?

 

[Richx200]

Traditionally you can't "un mix" audio to make more channels (or to re-mix if you don't have the original multitrack recordings) but AI is getting smarter every day! There are tools that can do it to some extent but I don't think they work in real time. There is something called Spleeter for unmixing (separating different vocals and instruments) but you'd you'd have to make your own multi-channel (re)production. I assume there are some other tools too, but Spleeter is one I know of.

Most Audio/Video Receivers have "upmixing" modes. My older one has "hall" and "theater" settings that I like to use with regular stereo music. They create some delayed reverb in the rear for the "feel" of a bigger room.

Some multi-channel soundcards have similar effect/processing utilities.


Most of the music I own will never be remixed in surround, and I'm not sure I'd like it unless it was similar to what I'm doing with upmixing, keeping the band in the front. And I'm old so I don't listen to much new music.

...And I'm NEVER going back to vinyl.

I do have a shelf-full of concert DVDs (and a few Blu-Rays) with true 5.1 surround. Most of the rear is probably "room sound" (reverb and applause) and the main vocals probably come from the center, but I haven't really "analyzed" the mixes. But I enjoy it and I always chose the surround over the stereo. I've never heard a guitar or vocal coming "artificially' from the rear or anything like that.

Thank you

 

[Richx200]

QuantumLogic Immersion does this real time. It breaks down the source into the streams and then breaks the streams down into original sound, first reflections and hall sounds. I don't think there is a product out there that gives you the control to remix it though, just using the presets built in.



Those are ambiance generation which is adding reverb. Things like Dolby Pro Logic II or Logic 7 try to extract the ambiance from the recording itself. They work very well on music and pulling the hall sound out of the front and putting it into the sides and rears. Both were built for music.

I do have OrilRiver VST that does change room size, ambiance and stuff, but I don't think it does multichannel (have to check)

 

[sfogg]

That looks like it is just reverb generation, not ambiance extraction/surround processing. If you have a very dry recording (or mono) I find that sort of thing can be useful. But for music that already has reverb rercorded within it adding additional artificial reverb can sound funny in my experience. And I say that having very high quality reverb built into my Lexicon processors.

 

[Richx200]

What are those particularly?

Dolby Digital, TrueHD, Atmos Auro-3D and this recording "YGGDRASIL - 2L170 Dolby Atmos"

Not sure what format or what will dominate the market.

P.S I still have my Quadraphonic and Discreet 4 channel recordings and the decoders.

 

[Richx200]

That looks like it is just reverb generation, not ambiance extraction/surround processing. If you have a very dry recording (or mono) I find that sort of thing can be useful. But for music that already has reverb rercorded within it adding additional artificial reverb can sound funny in my experience. And I say that having very high quality reverb built into my Lexicon processors.

It does have presets for ambiance.

 

[sfogg]

The presets are for changing the generated reverb for different sized halls. It is for the generated ambiance. It is adding reverb/ambiance to the 2 channel recording. Some reverb processes will do that but then push that generated reverb into side or rear channels.

Ambiance extraction is by definition a surround process. It is literally removing recorded ambiance from L/R and putting it into side and rears.

This booklet explains the difference between ambiance generation and ambiance extraction and explains how that product has different modes to do either of them.

 

[Chrispy]

Dolby Digital, TrueHD, Atmos Auro-3D and this recording "YGGDRASIL - 2L170 Dolby Atmos"

Not sure what format or what will dominate the market.

P.S I still have my Quadraphonic and Discreet 4 channel recordings and the decoders.

These aren't particularly new....

Probably 2.0 will continue to dominate, tho. Many multich SACDs are still quad based...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Dolby Digital, TrueHD, Atmos, Auro-3D

Dolby offers tools for mixing and encoding Dolby Digital, TrueHD, Atmos and Auro offers simlar tools for the last one.
There is also Illusonic plug-ins

 

[Richx200]

The presets are for changing the generated reverb for different sized halls. It is for the generated ambiance. It is adding reverb/ambiance to the 2 channel recording. Some reverb processes will do that but then push that generated reverb into side or rear channels.

Ambiance extraction is by definition a surround process. It is literally removing recorded ambiance from L/R and putting it into side and rears.

This booklet explains the difference between ambiance generation and ambiance extraction and explains how that product has different modes to do either of them.

Thank you for the Lexicon information but, I was talking about the VST:

OrilRiver VST plugin review: Reddit community's perspective

Based on discussions and feedback on Reddit, OrilRiver is a highly regarded free reverb VST plugin among music producers and audio engineers.

Here's a summary:

• Excellent Sound Quality (especially for a free plugin): Many users praise its sound, often comparing it favorably to commercial options. It's described as capable of producing natural-sounding ambiance for various instruments and vocals, as well as lush and expansive soundscapes.
• Intuitive and User-Friendly: Its layout and controls are generally considered easy to understand and use, making it suitable even for less experienced users.
• Versatile and Feature-Rich: OrilRiver offers a comprehensive set of controls for shaping the reverb, including:
  
  • Separate sliders for Dry, Early Reflections (ER), Reverb, and Wet signals.
  • 12 ER presets and 5 reverb tail variations.
  • Basic controls like pre-delay, width, and decay time.
  • Additional parameters such as room size, diffusion, damping (intensity and cutoff), and modulation (speed and depth).
  • A three-band EQ for fine-tuning the reverb's tonal characteristics.

The plugin also has a wide number of presets for two channel I haven't tried, taken a recording processed with OriRiver and then running in through 5.1 or 7.1 multichannel yet.

However, from just fooling around with the plugin, I have gotten some amazing results from two channel.

 

[Richx200]

These aren't particularly new....

Probably 2.0 will continue to dominate, tho. Many multich SACDs are still quad based...

Just wondering which format will emerge as the winner offered to the market as the next "Must have so update your music collection today"

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Just wondering which format will emerge as the winner offered to the market as the next "Must have so update your music collection today"

I suspect Atmos by brute force.