• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Controlled directivity speakers

TimVG

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
1,193
Likes
2,644
stereo / fidelity is best preserved if play-back at home replicates the sound engineer's experience, especially regarding important parameters

One thing to consider is that studios in general, even when using conventional monitors, are overall well treated. Meaning the lower mid frequency build up (magnitude wise) present in these conventional monitors, will not be present there. In a living room/home listening situation this is usually not the case, and so controlled directivity in that region, makes sense again. Just something to consider.
 

Rick Sykora

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
3,603
Likes
7,296
Location
Stow, Ohio USA
While the OP's original premise was based on misleading data, how a designer controls directivity and why is a worthwhile discussion. If the original sonogram was correct, it would have been noteworthy as the Revel does not share any of the obvious traits of speakers with more constant directivity below 1kHz.

Some of the broader discussion is good too but suggest one or more topics belong in their own thread. @HooStat please consider updating your OP to clarify. Thanks!
 

fineMen

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Messages
1,504
Likes
680
One thing to consider is that studios in general, even when using conventional monitors, are overall well treated. Meaning the lower mid frequency build up (magnitude wise) present in these conventional monitors, will not be present there. In a living room/home listening situation this is usually not the case, and so controlled directivity in that region, makes sense again. Just something to consider.
Last reply on this { from my side } , promised. If certain studios do not respect the limitations at their customers' home, I happily dismiss their offerings. I'm perfectly free and willing to do so. For the time being, the band 'Animals As Leaders' seems to have a repeating prob with a too dense lower midrange.

So, I'm aware of the problems with individualistic studios, but especially too often get the smell of the misleading notion, that the primary recording has something to be 'revealed' independently from all the studio's decisions on how to design the record. This insane idea is legend.

Does, say as an example, 'cardioid' dispersion add significant value to the toolbox of a studio, or can it easily be substituted by other means to design a record. Namely equalizing, adding (synthetic in case) reverberation and so on.

All my argumentation is based on listening to a very wide range of different recordings, spread out in time and genre. I can actually appreciate the differences in the studio's work, digest those as an individual piece of the art in themselves. How come, that I actively 'reveal' the differences with a stereo, that frankly isn't that special?
Well, I feel the set-up of my stereo experience benefits from personal knowledge. Priceless to know what tools a recording engineer has at hand. To know what sound is physically, and to play an instrument myself, to begin with.

I do not sport 'cardioid', as it doesn't seem to be needed to enjoy the music transported to me by studio technology. What else should I ask for? The truth--there is none.

c/u on the DIY page later
 
Last edited:
OP
HooStat

HooStat

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
856
Likes
934
Location
Calabasas, CA
Some of the broader discussion is good too but suggest one or more topics belong in their own thread. @HooStat please consider updating your OP to clarify. Thanks!
I can't edit it anymore -- apparently the editing function is removed after some period of time. sorry about that. But personally, I welcome all continued discussion on controlled directivity in this thread. It is very interesting. That said, if people want to create more specific ones, then that makes sense too.
 

AdamG

Debunking the “Infomercial” hawkers & fabricators
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
4,722
Likes
15,565
Location
Reality
I can't edit it anymore -- apparently the editing function is removed after some period of time. sorry about that. But personally, I welcome all continued discussion on controlled directivity in this thread. It is very interesting. That said, if people want to create more specific ones, then that makes sense too.
Just type in “xxxxx” in your next post what you want the Title to read. I will edit the title for you.
 

AdamG

Debunking the “Infomercial” hawkers & fabricators
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
4,722
Likes
15,565
Location
Reality
Just type in “xxxxx” in your next post what you want the Title to read. I will edit the title for you.
Or you could go with option 2 and start a new thread and we can close this one. Completely your call.
 

gnarly

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
1,019
Likes
1,433
Hi all, very interesting thread....I've been trying to achieve lowering frequency of directivity control for some time.
Directiva R2 looks very cool...following this (and similar efforts on DIY).

My path for lowering the control frequency has been with large Danley style conicals.
I thought i'd throw in a few anecdotal impressions, after trying to give an intro to maybe gather some credibility.

I've made various sized horns, with various H-V patterns. They have all ranged between roughly 30" to 48" wide.
Horizontal patterns have ranged from 50 to 90 degrees, and vertical patterns from 50 to 60 degrees.
They have all used the same compression drivers reaching down to 500-700Hz, with various sized cone compliments picking up duty down to 100Hz, .......all for use with subs.

Two particular versions have removable secondary flares, which takes their width from about 34" without the flares, to 48" with them.
Using Keele's classic formula for a 90 degree horizontal, that gives about 270Hz control without the flares, vs 190Hz with.
My smallest 30" builds were 60 deg @ 410Hz; and 90 degrees @ 310 Hz.

Just trying to impart i've had a good range of 'lowest frequency of control' to listen to, from about 190Hz to 410Hz.
All the builds were tuned exactly the same way, getting the best on-ax and off-axis set possible, out to pattern control edges.
Used a spinorama outdoors off a deck, with mic about 9ft away. Muti-way FIR processing. Good flat mag and phase traces were pretty much a given.

Anyway, after that longwinded intro....i really only have two rather small observations to offer. (Sorry, sigh).

First, there has been a downward shift in tonality, when adding secondary flares (this was after retuning with the flares on to the same previous flat mag and phase, with only the polar widths varying some).
The same flat magnitude traces sound a little more downward sloping with increased horn width and lower pattern control, like a little HF/VHF high-shelf attenuation was added.
I observed this both indoors and out. My room is fairly large, maybe 6000 cu ft with Schroeder down close to 100Hz. I guess this probably accounts for much of the sameness, indoors vs out.

Second, after hearing the downward shift in tonality and liking it, I've tried to EQ the smaller horn without secondary flares to the same tonality.
It's easy to get very close, but I've never made cigar. There's a richness to the lower frequency control, even outdoors, that can't quite be duplicated via processing....so i dunno what's going on really.

I'm lucky to have a partner such that the WAF doesn't even enter the picture, We divided up the house where we each have our "free to do as please zones". She and I both love it :)
 
OP
HooStat

HooStat

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
856
Likes
934
Location
Calabasas, CA
@AdamG247 I think the title is ok. But could you put the following after my text (and before the picture) in the original post:

EDIT: The figure for the Revel 226Be on the website was incorrect. The Revel does not have controlled directivity down to 100 Hz as shown. See post #2 below (#2) with the correct plot from the review. The error on @pierre's website has been fixed. Please continue to use this thread as desired to talk about controlled directivity and related topics.
 

AdamG

Debunking the “Infomercial” hawkers & fabricators
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
4,722
Likes
15,565
Location
Reality
@AdamG247 I think the title is ok. But could you put the following after my text (and before the picture) in the original post:

EDIT: The figure for the Revel 226Be on the website was incorrect. The Revel does not have controlled directivity down to 100 Hz as shown. See post #2 below (#2) with the correct plot from the review. The error on @pierre's website has been fixed. Please continue to use this thread as desired to talk about controlled directivity and related topics.
Done.
 
Top Bottom