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Constant directivity speakers (DSP) for DIYers

peanuts

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cheap 3way dipole:
rB4mH.png

http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2010/12/s16-constant-directivity-dipoles.html

cheap 2way econowave:
s15dsp%2Bnormalised.png

http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2010/11/s15-econowave-dsp.html
 

Ilkless

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I was mainly discussing first reflections, which cause a huge dip in response when freguency/wavelength and delay make cancelaltion. We must remember to consider also the back wall behind the listener! These are most difficult around 100-400Hz.

Transition zone 200-700Hz is difficult to analyze. In in-room measurements we see many many first reflection nulls with short gating and also many other wiggles that may come from speaker's edges/directivity problems. Also multiple order boundary reflections are mixing together, with long gating or RTA. I use to overlay multiple measurements from different mic locations or longperiod averaged RTA with mic in my waving hand (MMM)

I want to believe that highish horizontal directivity from 200Hz up is for good and also not too difficult to achieve. A 15" cone+horn crossed around 900Hz can do that, also most cardioids and dipoles.

My copy of Gradient 1.3 speakers has monopole bass crossing to dipole mid around 180Hz LR2 and horizontal directivity is cardioid 120-250Hz, dipole above it. I have done hundreds of measurement both in- and outdoors and this is the nicest looking horizontal 360¤ sonogram, outdoor 12ms gating, other normalized. Room response with 500ms gating shown too, my room is quite wide. This sounds nice, if I lift 100-300Hz higher it starts to sound boomy. Bass is sealed downfire with dsp, -6dB is around 12Hz in room response!

My build thread at diyadio.com https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...aborative-speaker-project-48.html#post4231049

1551617902776.png


Given your experience with SEAS coaxs, do you think crossing the tweeter at ~1.6kHz is a problem when it comes to distortion and SPL? Above pic shows 1/24-octave polars of an active speaker I might be interested in getting. It uses the T18REX (shielded version) and crosses the tweeter at 1.6kHz (18dB low-pass, 12dB high-pass) - that's nearly an entire octave lower than where SEAS crosses it in the Loki. I'm aware of the 10kHz interference and how its not that bad, but are the smaller artifacts around 6-9kHz anything to worry about? Is it possible to do even better than those polars with the 18cm SEAS coaxials?
 
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Juhazi

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^On the limit, use steep xo. They have many models with different tweeters, here are XFC and XACG, quite a difference in response and distortion. Here without eg or xo but installed in MR18 cone (T18REX gives different loading, thus different spl curve but spl% stays the same)
MR18blanda T vs aluT disto-vert.jpg

seas xfc vs xacg.jpg
 
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Ilkless

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^On the limit, use steep xo. They have many models with different tweeters, here are XFC and XACG, quite a difference in response and distortion. Here without eg or xo but installed in MR18 cone (T18REX gives different loading, thus different spl curve but spl% stays the same)

Thanks. I assume the XFC textile tweeter is the graph on top? Not the lowest-distorting tweeter... 1.6kHz gives nice directivity though. Question of tradeoff between accuracy, and SPL + distortion. Speaker the polars I linked uses 12dB electrical on the tweeter. Frustrating that the best coax 2-way drivers are all proprietary and found only in passive speakers (KEF, Technics, ELAC...) , when they really deserve the flexibility and accuracy of an active to reach their potential.
 
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Ilkless

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^yep, The MR18 has the XFC tweeter, and the copper ring is standard with MR18. Don't know if T18REX's tweeter has it. SEAS C18 coax has best curves.

Gradient 1.4 uses MR18 cone and C18 tweeter, it is custom unit for them. http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-843&lang=en

Speaking of Gradient, do you do you know how they eliminated the 10kHz null with their SEAS OEM coax? Even the old 1990s Revolution has a null much higher up, based on the Stereophile graphs, so I find it very strange SEAS still has a 10k null with the T18REX. Gradient has a midwoofer version they use with the Gradient Five and Six - have you seen any graphs for that?
 

Juhazi

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Sorry don't know of measurements of G5, G6. This tweeter integration is very tricky. Gradient folks get custom models from SEAS, they are long-time customers. Perhaps all models have not been so well finalized. The new 1.4 has MR18 cone and C18 tweeter. A trick used in 1.5 and Revolution is to tilt the coaxial so that on-axis is projected to the ceiling, listener spot is at 10-30¤ angle. Anyway, at normal listening distance you hear room response which is smooth. These nulls shouldn't scare you!

This is Revolution's horizontal directivity from Stereophile https://www.stereophile.com/content/gradient-revolution-loudspeaker-measurements
gr95fig4.jpg
 

Ilkless

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Anyway, at normal listening distance you hear room response which is smooth. These nulls shouldn't scare you!

This is exactly the paradox I'm a bit confused by. Doesn't listening that far away then dilute the big advantage of a coax, vertical lobing? It means vertical lobing is not that consequential, and therefore we can afford to use non-coaxial drivers with matched horizontal directivity. That's what makes me sit on the fence between going coaxial or waveguide non-coaxs.
 

peanuts

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thoes gradient speakers are probably good, but a previous speaker was highly questionable. sidemounted dipole! why they ever released this is beyond me.
gradient-helsinki-15.jpg
 

Valhalla

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I built my own, loosely based on the D&D 8C using a DIY waveguide (plaster) and a passive cardiod enclosure for midbass

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It's quasi cardioid to cover the whole spectrum from schroeder on up

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2 way, filter is done by miniDSP (cdsp 6x8)

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The end result is pleasing and supplemented by 4 subs (using 4 dsp channels and multisub optimizer)

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that's very inspiring. are kind enough to share some of your experience about passive resistive port design and the material you used to delay the response?
 

jamescarter1982

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I built my own, loosely based on the D&D 8C using a DIY waveguide (plaster) and a passive cardiod enclosure for midbass

View attachment 21021

View attachment 21022

View attachment 21017

View attachment 21023

View attachment 21018

It's quasi cardioid to cover the whole spectrum from schroeder on up

View attachment 21019

2 way, filter is done by miniDSP (cdsp 6x8)

View attachment 21020

View attachment 21024

The end result is pleasing and supplemented by 4 subs (using 4 dsp channels and multisub optimizer)

View attachment 21015

View attachment 21016
how was the curve for the waveguide / horn calculated please this might be a good way to make a large horn
 
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