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Constant Beamwidth Transducer (CBT) Speakers

I see a lot of people referring to the elimination of the floor bounce. The CBT's (Half CBT)shown don't e eliminate the ground bounce but utilize it, actually need it, for proper response.
I get your meaning, but the point being made is that the problematic floor bounce is when a fully formed wavefront travelling from the speaker to the listener is destructively interfered with by a delayed bounce off the floor. This destructive floor bounce is eliminated.

For this to work, the floor needs to be highly reflective at all frequencies emitted. Carpeting or rugs destroy the design.

The acoustic center is on the floor in this case.
The psycho-perceptual (apparent) source of the audio is the nearest drive unit. (Keele, Sept 13, 2012)
 
I get your meaning, but the point being made is that the problematic floor bounce is when a fully formed wavefront travelling from the speaker to the listener is destructively interfered with by a delayed bounce off the floor. This destructive floor bounce is eliminated.

For this to work, the floor needs to be highly reflective at all frequencies emitted. Carpeting or rugs destroy the design.


The psycho-perceptual (apparent) source of the audio is the nearest drive unit. (Keele, Sept 13, 2012)
That is correct. I wouldn't say they are acoustically perfect but they can be very impressive and can assist in solving some acoustical problems in specific applications.
 
My question is, if positioning them in reverse, so with the curving at the top instead not the bottom, will be an issue when you still sit directly in front of it and not having them above tilted downwards (where the curving makes sense to reduce the level for people standing nearer). With this the positioning on stands would be more robust and someone may use the extension module as a stand as well. Practically making a floorstander with that (originally the extension module is meant to be added at the top).
Thanks for the info! I guess inverting the speakers shouldn't be a major issue. considering that the floor is usually much closer to the listener than the ceiling, placing the broader dispersion section at the top might actually be a better way, especially considering the stability advantage.

In China, CBT series speakers are surprisingly cheap. I'll probably buy a pair of used 50LA speakers soon to try them out.

If possible, I'd like to use the CBT 1000 for my LCR. Although I won't need that much SPL, their off-axis behavior seems better. I just don't know if my budget allows it.
 
Their sweet spot is quite large vertically(about 20 degrees of the ends.) and horizontally(about 120 degrees ). You can build a full CBT array that doesn't use the floor as reinforcement. As long as the curve and shading effects are implemented correctly. I don't remember how much of the dB gain over distance is retained from the line source inverse square of 3dB vs 6dB from a true line source.
Yes, the JBL CBT speakers create a pancake of sound. As mentioned before, I used them in a church to bypass the podium microphones and the first several rows of pews that didn’t need reinforcement. In a home, this would minimize floor and ceiling reflections but would also be more demanding of listening height on a smaller room.
Thanks for that! It seems that with some careful aiming—perhaps a slight upward tilt—I should be able to align that vertical beam to cover the intended listening height range effectively, even in a smaller room.
 
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Thanks for the info! I guess inverting the speakers shouldn't be a major issue. considering that the floor is usually much closer to the listener than the ceiling, placing the broader dispersion section at the top might actually be a better way, especially considering the stability advantage.
That's what I thought too. The idea of using the extension module as a stand is very intriguing.

My idea is to place diffusors at the ceiling, where the curved part is aiming too, maybe that will enhance spaciousness. But that's far away from the specified use case of the CBT 70. Regarding your planned purchase: I wouldn't buy the 50 because these are broadbands. At least compare them to the 70 or 1000.
 
It looks like I phrased it wrong at the end of my statement. Inverse square in a mathematically perfect distribution of sound is -6dB every doubling of distance from a point source or spherical wave front and a -3dB for every doubling of distance on a line source or cylindrical wave front. Since the CBT is neither but a hybrid that simulates part of a spherical wave front. They do project well , I can attest to that. Through an experience of demonstrating them in a very long room (around 40 feet) . It was many , many years ago when I measured some of the first prototypes. I am not good at expressing things on these type of forums. Better at speaking. I hated writing papers. Floyd Toole always told me if you can't explain it to a lay person without relying on a bunch of mathematical formulas that you just spit out then you most likely do not understand it yourself. (You still need to know the math)
 
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...sound is -6dB every doubling of distance from a point source or spherical wave front and a -3dB for every doubling of distance on a line source or cylindrical wave front. Since the CBT is neither but a hybrid...
Just in case readers think you are suggesting something between -3 and -6 dB, the 'Keele CBT' concept has an amazing attribute of horizontal isobars for the first few metres from the speaker. Meaning, 0 dB per doubling of distance.

This offers the opportunity to use them for side and rear surrounds with off-centre listeners, uniquely creating no disparity in left-right loudness compared to a listener on the centreline.

cheers
 
Just in case readers think you are suggesting something between -3 and -6 dB, the 'Keele CBT' concept has an amazing attribute of horizontal isobars for the first few metres from the speaker. Meaning, 0 dB per doubling of distance.

This offers the opportunity to use them for side and rear surrounds with off-centre listeners, uniquely creating no disparity in left-right loudness compared to a listener on the centreline.

cheers
This is very true. They do many things very well in an unorthodox way. They perform well on desktops (scaled down), or in large rooms with relatively low ceilings as a PA or background music system(upside down against the ceiling).
 
I’ve spent some more time reading into CBT technology recently, but I find myself having even more questions, particularly regarding the ground-plane/floor-reflection CBT designs. I mean no offense to anyone, and admittedly, I haven't heard these speakers in person, nor can I fully digest all the academic papers. So, please correct me if my logic is flawed.

As I understand it, this technology simulates a virtual point source located at the center of curvature by arranging drivers on an arc (or using delays) and controls the vertical directivity through amplitude shading. @Newman mentioned earlier that our psychoacoustic perception of the sound source is dictated by the closest driver. However, I suspect this might not apply to this specific architecture. Since the wavefront is deliberately synthesized to mimic a point source originating from the floor (the center of the arc), I can't imagine why the human ear would localize the sound to the nearest physical driver.

In fact, I stumbled upon a similar technology called Wave Field Synthesis (WFS), which I believe supports my perspective. WFS also utilizes line arrays with complex delays and attenuation to simulate non-existent, virtual sound sources. The visual animations explaining WFS principles look strikingly similar to JBL's CBT design. WFS was born entirely out of the desire to make driver arrays simulate sound sources at entirely different locations in space.

Therefore, I lean towards the idea that a ground-plane CBT is essentially a speaker that simulates a controlled point source on the floor—not just in its dispersion behavior, but also psychoacoustically. Yet, in the horizontal plane, it diffuses somewhat like a cylindrical wave. Conceptually, it acts like a massive, extremely narrow, fan-shaped waveguide:
1778908310669.jpeg

In conclusion, I have no doubt that CBT is a brilliant technology for sound reinforcement/PA applications. It achieves controlled vertical directivity and lower SPL attenuation (similar to a cylindrical wave) at a fraction of the cost, using a single conventional-sized cabinet. However, for home audio applications, a floor-to-ceiling line array might still be the superior choice.
 
@Newman mentioned earlier that our psychoacoustic perception of the sound source is dictated by the closest driver. However, I suspect this might not apply to this specific architecture.
You can see in my post at the top of this page that it was Keele himself who provided that information. It was definitely with reference to this speaker architecture.

cheers
 
You can see in my post at the top of this page that it was Keele himself who provided that information. It was definitely with reference to this speaker architecture.

cheers
The physics behind CBT are indeed incredibly complex, and there are likely still many nuances I haven't fully accounted for. If I ever get the chance, I will definitely hear these speakers in person.;)
 
I posted it in a different thread, but this may be more appropriate・・・


It seems this technology and business are still going strong. Does that mean it’s reasonably convincing?

 
. However, for home audio applications, a floor-to-ceiling line array might still be the superior choice.

No ! I don't think so . One great advantage of groundplane CBT speakers is that they are very easy to measure . You can have a long quasi anechoic window in a small room . Completely impossible with conventionnal speakers .

I've read many threads about floor to ceiling line arrays . Eq were based only on measurements at listening point .
 
I’ve spent some more time reading into CBT technology recently, but I find myself having even more questions, particularly regarding the ground-plane/floor-reflection CBT designs. I mean no offense to anyone, and admittedly, I haven't heard these speakers in person, nor can I fully digest all the academic papers. So, please correct me if my logic is flawed.

As I understand it, this technology simulates a virtual point source located at the center of curvature by arranging drivers on an arc (or using delays) and controls the vertical directivity through amplitude shading. @Newman mentioned earlier that our psychoacoustic perception of the sound source is dictated by the closest driver. However, I suspect this might not apply to this specific architecture. Since the wavefront is deliberately synthesized to mimic a point source originating from the floor (the center of the arc), I can't imagine why the human ear would localize the sound to the nearest physical driver.

In fact, I stumbled upon a similar technology called Wave Field Synthesis (WFS), which I believe supports my perspective. WFS also utilizes line arrays with complex delays and attenuation to simulate non-existent, virtual sound sources. The visual animations explaining WFS principles look strikingly similar to JBL's CBT design. WFS was born entirely out of the desire to make driver arrays simulate sound sources at entirely different locations in space.

Therefore, I lean towards the idea that a ground-plane CBT is essentially a speaker that simulates a controlled point source on the floor—not just in its dispersion behavior, but also psychoacoustically. Yet, in the horizontal plane, it diffuses somewhat like a cylindrical wave. Conceptually, it acts like a massive, extremely narrow, fan-shaped waveguide:
View attachment 532538
In conclusion, I have no doubt that CBT is a brilliant technology for sound reinforcement/PA applications. It achieves controlled vertical directivity and lower SPL attenuation (similar to a cylindrical wave) at a fraction of the cost, using a single conventional-sized cabinet. However, for home audio applications, a floor-to-ceiling line array might still be the superior choice.

The CBT concept is simple, it works like this:

1785831548350.png

Pretend that this is a one-way speaker. It's easier to use a one-way for an example. In this vertical line array, the elements will produce a wavefront that is tall, narrow, and most importantly: it's flat.

1785831650043.png


Now we take that same array, and we curve it. Again, pretend this is a one way, it's simpler. Same exact idea as the flat array, but the curvature of the cabinet curves the wavefront, and the vertical coverage angle is (mostly) determined by the angle of the arc defined by the array.

1785831793090.png


The main reason for the shading is simply for even coverage. That's it. Nothing super fancy here; you shade the array so that there isn't an abrupt transition at the edge of that cylinder of sound that the array radiates.

1785832037433.png


1785832255424.png


The difference between an unshaded array and a flat array is like the difference between a single light bulb illuminating your wall, and a home theater projector illuminating the same wall.

The light bulb is spherical; because it's spherical, the light is brightest in the center, and as you go further towards the edges, the light slowly fades out.

The projector bulb itself is ALSO spherical! But the projector has a LENS that turns the spherical light output into a FLAT wavefront. The projector takes a spherical wavefront and turns it into a two dimensional planar wavefront.

In other words: the goal of the project is to create a wavefront that matches the screen that it is projected on. If you simply took a light bulb and you removed the LENS from your projector, you would see that the light on the other side of the room looks like the light from a single bulb (because that's what it IS after all.)

Okay I promise there's a point here:

When you look at a CBT, you see a LINE array. But it is a LINE array that's designed to create a wavefront that behaves like a SPHERICAL wave.

Your home theater projector takes a spherical source (a bulb) and uses a lens to transform it into a planar source.

Your CBT takes a line source (it is a line array after all) and with the use of curvature and shading, turns it into a SPHERICAL source.

If that makes sense, then you guys will see why I've spent 15+ years of my life writing about waveformers: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/square-pegs.217298/

I named the thread "Square Pegs" because we're taking a round peg and cramming it through a rectangular hole. (We're turning a spherical source into a planar source.)

CBT is just the opposite; planar source to spherical wave.

1785832834270.png


1785832918236.png


You can see the CBT inside of this submarine, it's in the nose. This is advanced, unclassified Navy technology, carried over to loudspeakers.

The Navy version is truly spherical. That's why it's a sphere. The Keele and JBL version is a two dimensional slice of a sphere, radiating into three dimensions. All of the software that I'm aware of for CBTs treats them two dimensionally, I'm working to make that 3D. The only exception is Mabat's ATH software, which DOES simulate them in 3D, but cannot simulate the enclosure itself. (That's why I'm doing my thing.)

I'm currently slogging through a piece of software that should be able to generate these in a matter of seconds, if you'd like to follow my work in progress, it's here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...th-loudspeaker-design-can-a-cloud-llm.441785/
 

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How do you treat numerous speakers in CBT design while using dsp software like Dirac Live? DL measures data of a single speaker and creates filters based on this measurement. Here we have plenty spaced from each other
 
You treat it like you would treat any loudspeaker.

All of the stuff that I write about - waveguides, waveformers, line arrays, cbt arrays -

All of them are just devices to shape waves.

If you have a TV antenna on the top of your house, you wouldn't spend any time thinking about how the electromagnetic wave radiates from the transmitter to your antenna;

you would simply measure whether your antenna was receiving the signal, and if so, was it receiving it correctly.

That's all that DIRAC is doing - it's measuring the received signal and then modifying the transmitted signal so that the two match.
 
Thanks for that! It seems that with some careful aiming—perhaps a slight upward tilt—I should be able to align that vertical beam to cover the intended listening height range effectively, even in a smaller room.

The CBT array is designed so that your listening height does not matter.

Check the PDFs; one of the entire reasons that they're made this way, is so that you don't have to aim them like a conventional line array.


CBT looks like an array but behaves like a point source;

the entire reason that coaxials are popular is so that you don't have to keep your head in a vise to enjoy good sound.

Same idea with CBT.
 
Now measurements

first , mid array , 1 meter height at variant distances

photo medium hauteur 1 m.jpg


Than same 1.5 meter height

photo medium hauteur 1.5 m.jpg


now tweeter array , different heights and distances

photo aigu divers .jpg


You can clearly see the quarter wave effect

now the same without the deep ( with foam )

photo aigu mousse.jpg


Than measurement averages

photo moyennes medium et aigu .jpg


You can see why the tweeter line is interesting : the spl curve is much smoother

I still have some work to do to fine tune the filtering and EQs but they already sound great to my ears .
 
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