Considering moving to Portugal as an ex pat.... input welcome.

[kemmler3D]

For Portugal you are likely to need both Spanish and Portuguese.

Real questions as I might consider moving to EU (and have found Portugal very nice when I've visited) for ... no reason, certainly nothing to do with banned topics on this forum... but ...

1) How hard is it to learn Portugese if you have a rusty high schooler's grasp of Spanish?

More specific question:

2) If your spouse has EU citizenship but you don't, do you get residency automatically or is there still a non-deterministic application process of some kind? I assume if you have EU citizenship you can live anywhere in the EU, but if your spouse doesn't, do they have the same right?

 

[Salt]

Real questions as I might consider moving to EU (and have found Portugal very nice when I've visited) for ... no reason, certainly nothing to do with banned topics on this forum... but ...

1) How hard is it to learn Portugese if you have a rusty high schooler's grasp of Spanish?

More specific question:

2) If your spouse has EU citizenship but you don't, do you get residency automatically or is there still a non-deterministic application process of some kind? I assume if you have EU citizenship you can live anywhere in the EU, but if your spouse doesn't, do they have the same right?

This is from german government but based on EU regulations:
https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Migra...ZuEUBuergern/nachzug-zu-eu-buergern-node.html

 

[kemmler3D]

This is from german government but based on EU regulations:
https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Migra...ZuEUBuergern/nachzug-zu-eu-buergern-node.html

It seems like it might be country-by-country, but basically you get your residence card within 6 months if you can support yourself, and permanent residency in the EU after 5 years if you stay out of trouble, basically?

Seems pretty reasonable actually. Too bad most countries in the EU aren't English-speaking, but I guess being an immigrant isn't supposed to be THAT easy.

My current job lets you live anywhere you want, so if things get crazy enough that I actually decide to move, that will make things dramatically more feasible.

 

[Astoneroad]

I guess being an immigrant isn't supposed to be THAT easy.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door." I check an awful lot of these boxes... lol.

 

[frabor]

Hi,

Born in Spain, on the northern part of the Portugal border, but I live in Florida (dual citizenship). Due to family reasons I have been living between USA and Pontevedra, Spain ( about 30 miles/50 km from Portuguese border). Since I am exposed to both living system, I'll give you my opinion:

1) Be prepared to a different weather pattern. The Atlantic east coast is humid and windy. When you look at the daily temperature charts, they look average mild, but it can be uncomfortable due to the wind and rain. The coast of Portugal, and Spain, do not get any snow, but it get plenty of rain and wind. The south , close to faro, is more influenced by the Mediterranean/ weather pattern than the north.

2) European cities are very nice, with everything close and always something is going on. But with all the tourism, students and party going on, several parts of the cities have noise up to 5-6AM several days of the week.

3) Portugal was very friendly to expats (also called immigrants) willing to meet some means scale when buying a house of having a job with a specific income. That generated waves of gentrification with the locals being priced out of renting and buying houses in many parts of the country. There is a discontent going on the country and some of the visas and permits are going to be eliminated soon. Similar situations are happening all around Europe.

4) Be prepared for a bureaucratic culture shot. I cannot decide If I want to retire in the USA or in Europe due to the bureaucratic nightmare. Yes, that bad. The longer you live in the country, the worse it gets. Having someone one to guide you and help you with this is a must.

5) If you decide to live in a city, choose the area carefully. Some areas have become "theme parks" dedicated to tourism.

For the rest Portugal is a nice modern country with very low cost of living compared to the States. Portuguese people tend to be nice and tolerant and crime is low, in my experience. Two nice airports to travel anywhere. Train out of Portugal is not the best as the connections with the rest of Europe are still being developed. In a way is like living in south Florida, you are at the edge of the continent.

 

[kemmler3D]

Hi,

Born in Spain, on the northern part of the Portugal border, but I live in Florida (dual citizenship). Due to family reasons I have been living between USA and Pontevedra, Spain ( about 30 miles/50 km from Portuguese border). Since I am exposed to both living system, I'll give you my opinion:

1) Be prepared to a different weather pattern. The Atlantic east coast is humid and windy. When you look at the daily temperature charts, they look average mild, but it can be uncomfortable due to the wind and rain. The coast of Portugal, and Spain, do not get any snow, but it get plenty of rain and wind. The south , close to faro, is more influenced by the Mediterranean/ weather pattern than the north.

2) European cities are very nice, with everything close and always something is going on. But with all the tourism, students and party going on, several parts of the cities have noise up to 5-6AM several days of the week.

3) Portugal was very friendly to expats (also called immigrants) willing to meet some means scale when buying a house of having a job with a specific income. That generated waves of gentrification with the locals being priced out of renting and buying houses in many parts of the country. There is a discontent going on the country and some of the visas and permits are going to be eliminated soon. Similar situations are happening all around Europe.

4) Be prepared for a bureaucratic culture shot. I cannot decide If I want to retire in the USA or in Europe due to the bureaucratic nightmare. Yes, that bad. The longer you live in the country, the worse it gets. Having someone one to guide you and help you with this is a must.

5) If you decide to live in a city, choose the area carefully. Some areas have become "theme parks" dedicated to tourism.

For the rest Portugal is a nice modern country with very low cost of living compared to the States. Portuguese people tend to be nice and tolerant and crime is low, in my experience. Two nice airports to travel anywhere. Train out of Portugal is not the best as the connections with the rest of Europe are still being developed. In a way is like living in south Florida, you are at the edge of the continent.

Having experienced the summer in Lisbon and in the Miami area... for me it's no contest ... I'd rather stick my head in an oven than go outside in Florida in August...

 

[frabor]

Having experienced the summer in Lisbon and in the Miami area... for me it's no contest ... I'd rather stick my head in an oven than go outside in Florida in August...

I do not live in the south of Florida and I agree, I would not live in Miami, too humid too hot. But the OP is not talking about a summer; you can have a great summer almost anyplace in the world, but to move and live long term , maybe forever, in a different country is a totally new paradigm. IF you are going to be living in a place for more than a year, your perspective changes and you have to accept the place the way it is, with your perceived positives and negatives.

 

[Salt]

Too bad most countries in the EU aren't English-speaking

Sorry for that bad ....

But seriously: Look at the statistics of ASR members' origin as a hint. Conversation here is in english (in some cases by some translater's support, certainly).
And from my own experience, as I love to travel arround Europe a lot: the young generation (that means up to 40 years old) are capable of speaking english (even in France now, what was not so 30-40 years ago), from Scandinavia down to Mediterranian.
THIS will not mean to be a problem.

 

[kemmler3D]

I do not live in the south of Florida and I agree, I would not live in Miami. But the OP is not talking about a summer, and you can have a great summer almost anyplace in the world, but to move and live there. IF you are going to be living in a place for more than a year, your perspective changes and you have to accept the place the way it is, with your perceived positives and negatives.

Certainly, visiting and living somewhere are nothing alike. When I was little growing up on the east coast of the US I was SO IMPRESSED with New York City when I went there on a couple trips. I was certain I would live there when I grew up.

When I went to say with some friends in their actual apartments, senior year of college, I realized there was no way in hell I wanted to live in a closet in a city where they put the garbage out in the street for lack of alleys and everything cost 4x what it did in Chicago...

I liked visiting Lisbon / Porto and I am sure the charm would wear off in many ways if I lived there, but if you aren't going to stay where you are, you have to go somewhere...

Sorry for that bad ....

But seriously: Look at the statistics of ASR members' origin as a hint. Conversation here is in english (in some cases by some translater's support, certainly).
And from my own experience, as I love to travel arround Europe a lot: the young generation (that means up to 40 years old) are capable of speaking english (even in France now, what was not so 30-40 years ago), from Scandinavia down to Mediterranian.
THIS will not mean to be a problem.

Certainly I have been impressed with the English skills of... everyone... when I've visited the EU over the past several years. Spain, Portugal, Germany, it's really no problem. But, I would still want to learn the local language properly if I went somewhere that wasn't primarily an English-speaking place, for many reasons, partially just because I think it's rude not to.

 

[Astoneroad]

I do not live in the south of Florida and I agree, I would not live in Miami, too humid too hot. But the OP is not talking about a summer; you can have a great summer almost anyplace in the world, but to move and live long term , maybe forever, in a different country is a totally new paradigm. IF you are going to be living in a place for more than a year, your perspective changes and you have to accept the place the way it is, with your perceived positives and negatives.

I live in Vegas, on the edge of the desert with summer temps at 110F. I lived in New Orleans where the swamp is air borne. I went to school in Buffalo. I'm battle born regarding weather... lol.

 

[kemmler3D]

I live in Vegas, on the edge of the desert with summer temps at 110F. I lived in New Orleans where the swamp is air borne. I went to school in Buffalo. I'm battle born regarding weather... lol.

I've been living in SF for the past 5 years, and the phrase "softer than baby s***" comes up a lot when the topic of resilience to high or low temperatures comes up. I lived in Chicago for 15 years and considered myself pretty hardy... no longer.

 

[Berwhale]

As the topic of language comes into focus... Canada is looking better all the time... lol. It's also the only candidate that I could drive to. I've been to B.C. several times and like it, the people and culture. The city is pricey... but there are options. Just the money saved not moving to Europe will cover an immediate cost of living increase for a while. I could always pop back into the US for health care with current insurance if need be... and recreational cannabis is sold in dispensaries, just like in Vegas. I'd have to run the numbers to see exactly how that plays out.

I'd move there just for the Nanaimo bars

 

[Astoneroad]

I'd move there just for the Nanaimo bars

We can pick some up at Corner Gas:

 

[Timcognito]

Put Belize on your list. The coast is beautiful, cost of living low, small population and English is the official language.

 

[Astoneroad]

Put Belize on your list. The coast is beautiful, cost of living low, small population and English is the official language.

I've lived through enough hurricanes and floods. The Caribbean isn't on my list.

 

[Salt]

When I was young, I considered New Zealand, but I was too old . They prefer young academics with high skills at age of 20 years (or below) ...
Joke aside: what will be the next change, at what place in the world, we can only estimate, but is no more calculable, so any move has it's risk in it's own.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting on my hill like a fool and watching the world go around (not really, as it's raining and foggy all day, to be honest, could be London ).

 

[Astoneroad]

When I was young, I considered New Zealand, but I was too old . They prefer young academics with high skills at age of 20 years (or below) ...
Joke aside: what will be the next change, at what place in the world, we can only estimate, but is no more calculable, so any move has it's risk in it's own.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting on my hill like a fool and watching the world go around (not really, as it's raining and foggy all day, to be honest, could be London ).

...ever get the feelin' that "no body want so know you... they know that you're just a fool"? (the secret to being a recluse living amongst the bipeds)

 

[madrac]

Put Belize on your list. The coast is beautiful, cost of living low, small population and English is the official language.

Or Panama (which is generally hurricane free and they use the US$, so no currency exchange fees).

 

[EJ3]

Thanks, great to hear it from someone that has done it. I'm also considering Canada... they speak English and I can drive there... which means I could pack my audio gear in the SUV and bring it with me!

View attachment 405007

This seems like a perfect place, if only taxes where not so high. I have a great friend (grew up with him) whose place is on deep water and about 10 acres (almost all heavy woods (but there is a moderate sized ranch house & a smaller footprint 2 story house in there. He lives in the ranch house, his sister lives in the 2 story. You cannot see it from the water due to a 1/4 mile of marsh & then woods. You cannot see it from the one road that goes to it, as there is a sign on the road that says END of STATE maintenance and the road terminates at what appears to be a forest with a dirt road entering it. There is a gate that if you tried to knock it down with a 4x4 Ford F-350, you MIGHT accomplish that, but the truck would not be a viable vehicle to drive anymore.
They have a grant on the land from King George of England from before there was a United States of America and consequently own the marsh and the deep water creek to the middle. The only people that know what's in there are people like me that grew up with them. They have a flock of geese as a warning system, should someone get into the area without them knowing that someone is coming over. We are best friends, I live within 3/4 of a mile (and can also boat to his place). We see each other 3 or 4 times a year.

 

[madrac]

Yeah, geese are awesome property protectors. Better than a dog. We’ve got 11 or so on our land in Brazil. They can be vicious