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Considering moving to Portugal as an ex pat.... input welcome.

SIY said:
I was always amused that the great grandchildren of foreigners were still thought of as outsiders, "Oh, you know, that Turkish guy" speaking of someone 150 years removed), but it will be the difference between being an outsider and a welcome guest. You'll be amazed at how fast total immersion brings you up to a level of basic competence.

I never understood the expats who made a point of only hanging out with other expats.
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Personally... I never understood anyone who made a point of hanging out with... anyone... unless it happened to be in 15th century Florence. Then I could understand that concept. That's a funny story about 4+ generations later they're still "goyim". Thanks.
 
DWPress said:
My partner has a home in Avignon, France and post Covid we've been spending more time there. She lived there for 20+ years so has been doing bespoke food, wine, hiking and art tours throughout Provence in the spring and fall for mostly American clients. In about 4 years the mortgage will be paid off on that property but until then we've full time renters to cover bills/taxes etc at which time we'll have to decide (or not) the primary residence. She's got French citizenship so I could marry (again :facepalm:) and get the benefits of EU access that way but marriage in the USA would be catastrophic for us in a new tax and healthcare bracket. We will most likely retain both properties as my studio and work (and stereo) are on this property I've occupied for almost 35 years.

I don't speak French well but get along pretty ok and if I keep my mouth shut and light a cigarette I pass as native. But the language barrier is there especially in formal meetings and business with the foundation I'm part of. Years later I'm still "the American" but now I'm "their American" so inroads but I'll never be fully accepted, neither will Madeleine and she's been involved with those people for decades.

It's a different, slower, more intentional life in Europe, especially in the more Latin south. The temperate climate brings down the Northern Europeans as well so even an off season market in Arles you'll be hearing lots of Brits, Germans, Dutch babbling all around you.

Sounds like you're prepared for a cultural shift as well as one to your pocket book. Definitely visit and spend time exploring any prospects. Make some native friends, that's how you'll find the "real" stuff.
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Avignon is actually one of the places that we want to visit and spend a day or two exploring.
 
As the topic of language comes into focus... Canada is looking better all the time... lol. It's also the only candidate that I could drive to. I've been to B.C. several times and like it, the people and culture. The city is pricey... but there are options. Just the money saved not moving to Europe will cover an immediate cost of living increase for a while. I could always pop back into the US for health care with current insurance if need be... and recreational cannabis is sold in dispensaries, just like in Vegas. I'd have to run the numbers to see exactly how that plays out.
 
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Astoneroad said:
Yes... language is the killer issue. If history is a harbinger... once crossing the Rubicon... it's best to stay out of the Senate chambers if you don't want your toga cut to pieces by the locals. I'm almost certainly leaning toward a metro area where the language limitation is mitigated. I'm ethnically Sicilian, and lived in various ethnic neighborhoods in NYC where I could blend visually and by keeping my mouth shut... not stick out. I dress like a local city dweller, look Italian/Spanish/Portuguese. I could learn transactional phrases and see if that's enough to be content... is the current evolution of this idea. Thanks for an on the ground view of rustic Spain. How did you come to know the word hillbilly? Are you from the US?
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In the past, I lived in the US (among other places) for quite, quite a long time; most of it in Indiana. So yeah, to me soda is still pop. :D

The fine part of my region is that there has been a nice increase in foreign-speaking population due to the popularity of St. James´ Way, hence why locals are a lot more used to people speaking English, French, German and then some.
 
Astoneroad said:
Thanks. That first hand experience is why I posted here. Let me know what has to say... much appreciated.
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A little more info, tho still don't know which region.
Evidently they are doing the 6 month visa thing and renting the place the rest of the year.
They said that there are ways of staying year round (at higher cost), but they aren't interested in that. (They have several airbnb properties.)
Price seemed reasonable - to me, at least - but still know nothing about the actual place (size, location, etc).

I looked into migrating to canada several decades ago (job prospects), and then there were fairly straightforward ways to migrate if you had a good job or comfortably retired.
Like most things I expect that has gotten more complex, since.
But I do remember the Ca gov had all of that pretty well documented (all on line now of course.)

The new (cap gains?) taxes, however, are still poorly understood (by us), and we are still trying to get more info on it - apparently not fully implemented yet?
Might make it a good time to snag some property there and migrate (or the reverse...).

FWIW, here's a scottish couple's take on their experience on the Gander/Newfoundland area... an area I'd love to visit too.

I've also spent time in the Calgary area - the Ca rockies are stunning, and well cared for; the cities are clean and comforable looking.
If looking for solitude, east of there, in the wheat belt, might be worth a look.
Ontario is my preference, however as you have easy transit from (very) rural to metropolitan areas, as they have been investing heavily in upgrades to the transcanada highway there, and lakes that may as well be oceans.

Best wishes!!
 
Astoneroad said:
As the topic of language comes into focus... Canada is looking better all the time... lol. It's also the only candidate that I could drive to. I've been to B.C. several times and like it, the people and culture. The city is pricey... but there are options. Just the money saved not moving to Europe will cover an immediate cost of living increase for a while. I could always pop back into the US for health care with current insurance if need be... and recreational cannabis is sold in dispensaries, just like in Vegas. I'd have to run the numbers to see exactly how that plays out.
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I live on the Sunshine Coast in BC, which is a 40 minute ferry ride from Horseshoe Bay in West Vancouver. But because of the ferry ride, the population on the Coast is quite small and we are out in the wilderness surrounded by trees, ocean, and mountains. It is quiet, and less expensive then Vancouver. But the convenience of taking a short ferry ride, lands you back in Vangroovy.

There are several islands surrounding the area like Texada Island, Savory Island, where one can simply disappear into nature. Roberts Creek has some expat history there. Or you may like the Gulf Islands or even (Northern) Vancouver Island. While this maybe one of Canada's most temperate climate spots, it is still quite North. Down at sea level, we don't get any snow typically, but there is snow (and the deep freeze!) pretty much everywhere else in Canada.

Good luck!
 
mitchco said:
I live on the Sunshine Coast in BC, which is a 40 minute ferry ride from Horseshoe Bay in West Vancouver. But because of the ferry ride, the population on the Coast is quite small and we are out in the wilderness surrounded by trees, ocean, and mountains. It is quiet, and less expensive then Vancouver. But the convenience of taking a short ferry ride, lands you back in Vangroovy.

There are several islands surrounding the area like Texada Island, Savory Island, where one can simply disappear into nature. Roberts Creek has some expat history there. Or you may like the Gulf Islands or even (Northern) Vancouver Island. While this maybe one of Canada's most temperate climate spots, it is still quite North. Down at sea level, we don't get any snow typically, but there is snow (and the deep freeze!) pretty much everywhere else in Canada.

Good luck!
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That's really a great lead, thanks. I spent time with locals in the islands 40 years ago and thought it was beautiful. I can handle the climate there, I grew up in a snowbelt. This sounds silly... but is it easy to get groceries delivered or picked up in the store parking lots in general? Walmart in the states is unbelievably convenient for me. Very useful info, thanks.
 
Ken1951 said:
Avignon is actually one of the places that we want to visit and spend a day or two exploring.
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I have to say that a good bit of the coast is tourist hell. The popular small villages like St Rémy have lost a lot of the charm and are all short term rentals and prices are high. The advantage of Avignon is the TGB with fast trains north to Paris and E/W routes but to see anything (like affordable little villages) you must have a car. This is true for most of France, public transit will only get you so far.
 
Possible that the OP is like me and finds it very difficult to pick up a new language now I am older. Tried Spanish and French over the years but gave up. I suspect it gets harder with age. Memory related most likely. If I was to move somewhere now, I would rather not have to learn more than the basics personally. Obviously it's better if you can, but I suspect there comes a point later in life when other things become more of a priority. YMMV.
 
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DWPress said:
I have to say that a good bit of the coast is tourist hell. The popular small villages like St Rémy have lost a lot of the charm and are all short term rentals and prices are high. The advantage of Avignon is the TGB with fast trains north to Paris and E/W routes but to see anything (like affordable little villages) you must have a car. This is true for most of France, public transit will only get you so far.
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We plan on renting a car once we finish our week or so in Paris. Likely train to Reims and then rent a car. Several places we want to see in that area and after that it's up in the air. Really want to see Avignon and would like to do some birding for a day - maybe Carmague? Figure we'll be in France for 2 to 2&1/2 weeks.

Edit: sorry for hijacking this thread. I'll stop now :)
 
MCH said:
Just a first sight at that list reminds me how difficult is to quantity quality of life and how quality of life can mean something very different for different people. (spoiler: I live in Luxembourg)
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Indeed. The website itself either mixed up the concept of quality of life with standard of living or they just accidentally named it incorrectly.

Either way, what they quantified is not quality of life, it is standard of living.
 
DSJR said:
The central part of the US does appeal to the loner still in me, as distant perceptions seem to indicate the general 'remoteness' of central northern America (am I right or totally out of my tree in thinking this?). Again, a scouting trip would be far easier perhaps, if you've not done it before in your life?

Effin 'ell folks, I've just seen the pic in the post above and you could get the entire UK including all of Ireland into one half of it or less I reckon.
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Northern Nevada is called "The Big Empty". This is an interesting clip about living there. It will seem like a different planet compared to coastal Suffolk.
 
Ken1951 said:
We plan on renting a car once we finish our week or so in Paris. Likely train to Reims and then rent a car. Several places we want to see in that area and after that it's up in the air. Really want to see Avignon and would like to do some birding for a day - maybe Carmague? Figure we'll be in France for 2 to 2&1/2 weeks.

Edit: sorry for hijacking this thread. I'll stop now
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That's the way I love it.
Going to some central point in a country and then cruising around, visiting some of the Cafes and Restaurants and slendering through city centers.
Enjoy France and food, and hopefully no rain ...
But this is also OT.
 
A friendly place with beautiful countryside, beaches and history. Colares in Sintra, Portugal. Due to the lack of housing in Lisbon and Porto, part of the land on the outskirts of large cities will be subject to urban reassessment.
Photo of one of the beaches and the winery.
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Astoneroad said:
In the past week, there's been a 5000% increase on searches for ex pat destinations and info. I wonder if everyone is leaving because of the weather? :facepalm:
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More like prospective climate.

If you end up in Portugal, you can visit me. :p

Rotiv said:
A friendly place with beautiful countryside, beaches and history. Colares in Sintra, Portugal. Due to the lack of housing in Lisbon and Porto, part of the land on the outskirts of large cities will be subject to urban reassessment.
Photo of one of the beaches and the winery.
View attachment 405301View attachment 405302
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It's not on the seaside, but I absolutely love Bragaça. Affordable, beautiful and well connected.
 
Perhaps the weather but more likely the cost of living here in the States.
FWIW, I'm nearing retirement (again - I did retire at 57 due to interest rate increase and impact it would have had on my lump sum pension) for a year but decided to go back to work for a bit, mainly because we bought almost 12 acres in Brazil (outside of Rio) and spent a bit on that and redoing things on the property. My wife is Brazilian & I'm now a permanent resident. So, Brazil is high on my list of places to go. Others we are considering are Mexico, Costa Rica, and Panama. Southeast Asia (Thailand/Malaysia/Cambodia) are also on my list but not my wife's (unfortunately). We did look at Portugal & the golden visa (don't recall all the details nor if it's still available, but seem to think it required purchase of a property of at least $500K.)

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the US has the best healthcare. Unfortunately, that isn't true considering it's the most costly.
www.internationalinsurance.com

The Best Healthcare in the World: Country Rankings

Discover the countries with the best healthcare in 2024 and learn about the key factors that make Italy, Singapore, and Iceland top the list.
www.internationalinsurance.com www.internationalinsurance.com
 
I'm Dutch but I lived in Portugal (Porto) for a year. I can not compare to North America, but here is my impression:

Pro:
- Portuguese are generally kind, calm and extremely welcoming to outsiders and foreigners (If you are from Brazil: YMMV). Even as a somebody who speaks very little portuguese I experienced this.
- Good weather
- Good food and wine
- Generally safe country
- Great nature, beaches, little towns, etc.
Cons:
- There will be some people trying to scam you (as in most places)
- Bureacacy & corruption is getting better but is still stiffling and frustrating, at least from my Northern Europe perspective.. There some horror stories.
- Online shopping is still kind of a new thing, expect 2 weeks to be a normal waiting time for a lot of products..
- This is a country that has not fully embraced capitalism so many businesses will seem extremely inefficient and lethargy. But at least the people helping you will usually be friendly. Opening a bank account took me 3 days of in-person appointments where I had to sign 20 different papers.
- The economy is one with few opportunities unfairly distributed, who you know is extremely important, and therefore there is sometimes a general athmosphere that breathes "land of no oppotunity"
- Healthcare may be free but suffers from the typical problems over very socialized healthcare: waiting lists, overworked doctors, etc

Portuguese mostly do not speak much English so if you want to socialize, either find an expat community with English speakers or learn Portuguese. Bring a translator to your government paperwork visits.

IMO if you can get private healthcare and do not need to find a local job, Portugal is a country the can offer a extremely pleasant and peaceful life.
 
madrac said:
... Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the US has the best healthcare. Unfortunately, that isn't true considering it's the most costly....
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Several things come to mind about US health care. I write this as someone who at age 65 qualified for Medicare [the first part of which is free, another 2nd part requires a monthly payment directly to the government and a third part which can be satisfied with an option of no additional monthly payment].

I selected a specific type of Medicare medical insurance plan with zero ($0.00) monthly premium which includes the standard free first part and the third monthly part; the second part I pay to the government (less than $150/month) - this is called "Medicare Advantage.". I have been hospitalized for invasive surgery, had two different hospital procedures going home the same day, undergone months long specialized equipment therapy, been administered numerous diagnostic test involving assorted modern imaging technology, been attended to by a gamut of different medical specialist and when required gotten appropriate drugs. So, a lot of crucial health care which I paid zero ($0.00) additional dollars for (I just paid that 2nd part to the government every month). And my access to specialists and sophisticated tests has always been timely, however I do not live in a remote locality.

Now I've seen all kinds of medical billing statements and generally my estimate is my Medicare type of insurance at most paid only about 2/3rds of what the health care provider (specialists, out-patient surgeries, pharmacies and hospital) charged. Which brings me to one of the points I want to make. Namely that US health care costs are "high" because providers bill that way and take an income tax break on the money they "lose" from receiving less than said they were owed. Although on the face of it this seems like an accounting trick it is worth considering there is usually some proportion of professionally demanding medical care performed for people who never will or never can pay anything at all (lately there are US hospitals with unsustainable finances closing).

For what dollar amount constitutes medical services' costs in the US it needs to be understood that patients (their families) have easy litigation options. A significant component of those medical bills are to cover the exceptionally high insurance coverage medical care providers are forced to pay for as a cost of functioning in the US. While to be proactive against potential future lawsuits US medical care orders a lot of possibly unnecessary tests and high tech imaging for US legal reasons. This expensive US over testing is referred to as "defensive medicine" and adds to health care costs.
 
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