Considering moving to Portugal as an ex pat.... input welcome.

[Astoneroad]

I am nearing retirement and also considering a move to Europe, Spain,Portugal, or Italy. Most of the legal requirements are doable and I am fluent in Spanish, so learning Italian or Portuguese should not be a stretch.

Your ability to arrive empty handed is a huge advantage to making it happen, imo.

My biggest hangup, as would be for my wife, is parting with all of our shit accumulated over a lifetime! I have speakers I have built, woodworking shop, over a half dozen guitars and basses, guitar amps, music studio equipment; my wife has collected artworks and eclectic furniture. Moving even just some of all our precious belongings would be ridiculously complicated and expensive. We’d have to sell it all and reestablish ourselves somewhere else. ‍

Maybe once my hearing is completely gone, it’ll be easier to part with all of that stuff!

Good luck! It’s totally doable, and there a lot of Americans that have done it. You’re dollars should stretch much further overseas, which is a nice advantage in retirement.

Thanks. It's much easier when there is no other opinion or set of needs, as is my case. Regarding parting with "stuff"... about 20 years I decided to stop carrying all my books that I had accumulated over a lifetime. After that... it seems any parting of ways with things has been relatively easy. Again... seismically easier as a lone wolf... rather than a family member. The language "problem", for me, works into my reclusive nature and keeps people at bay. The problem is when you're screaming in English "Where's the F.CKING hospital???... lol.

 

[Neddy]

My brother recently purchased a place in Portugal. Not sure of the details. I'll ask and get back to you.
He's definitely not of the hermit variety, but I'm a bit closer to the 'Go Away!' doormat mentality.

FWIW, I gather Canada (another interesting option) has recently implemented higher taxes on foreign owned real estate...still trying to understand the implications of that.

BTW, one factor that played into my (last?) house purchase was emergency response time, and quality of ER care.

I decided to stay put rather than move to a cheaper, more rural location; turns out that I'm alive today due to screaming fast police & ambliance response and access to a huge teaching hospital.... and now back in pretty good health again.
Oh, and being 'prepared' for the most likely 'end of life' situation didn't do a damn bit of good (yet?).

Spending your retirement years chasing doctors and quality health care (& access) is NOT how I'd like to spend my remaining years.

OTOH, I had nearly 10 years post retirement before that happened - to some, that might be good enough.

 

[Astoneroad]

My brother recently purchased a place in Portugal. Not sure of the details. I'll ask and get back to you.
He's definitely not of the hermit variety, but I'm a bit closer to the 'Go Away!' doormat mentality.

FWIW, I gather Canada (another interesting option) has recently implemented higher taxes on foreign owned real estate...still trying to understand the implications of that.

BTW, one factor that played into my (last?) house purchase was emergency response time, and quality of ER care.

I decided to stay put rather than move to a cheaper, more rural location; turns out that I'm alive today due to screaming fast police & ambliance response and access to a huge teaching hospital.... and now back in pretty good health again.
Oh, and being 'prepared' for the most likely 'end of life' situation didn't do a damn bit of good (yet?).

Spending your retirement years chasing doctors and quality health care (& access) is NOT how I'd like to spend my remaining years.

OTOH, I had nearly 10 years post retirement before that happened - to some, that might be good enough.

Thanks. That first hand experience is why I posted here. Let me know what has to say... much appreciated.

 

[Astoneroad]

I have no idea why you want to go the other way?

Precisely my motivation to leave, a populace that has no idea, when they very well should. "Those that don't remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - Santayana

 

[Berwhale]

We have a TV show called 'A Place in the Sun' in the UK. It features people from the UK looking for (and often purchasing) homes in the sunnier parts of Europe...

I don't know if you can access the show from the US, but you might find some useful info on the website: https://www.aplaceinthesun.com/tv-show

The show is on Channel 4 in the UK: https://www.channel4.com/programmes/a-place-in-the-sun

(A Channel 4+ streaming subscription is only £4 a month, but you'd need to use a VPN to watch from the US and probably have a means of paying with a card registered to a UK address)

 

[Jimbob54]

Couple of posts here intentionally or otherwise have more than a hint of xenophobia.

Let's not do that in what could be an interesting thread and respect the OP wishes.

 

[Marc v E]

I'm retired and in my late 60's and considering making my "next to last exit" and moving out of the U.S. (Las Vegas) I'm doing my homework for an ex pat destination and the usual suspects rise to the top, Panama, Albania, Portugal, Costa Rica and a few others. I only speak English, so being somewhere that this isn't a huge obstacle is a top priority, with cost of living the next check box. Nightlife isn't my scene, but I love art studios, museums, galleries, history and bohemian outlets, along with a cannabis tolerant, if not legal, locale. I'm looking at neighborhoods in Lisbon and Porto and there are several viable candidates. I'm open to any and all thoughts on any aspect of this move, including alternatives and "I wish I knew that before I moved" toe stubs. I intend to not bring anything other than clothes and necessary items. (So look for the gear sale that I'll post here... lol) I know that we have a very diverse group of eclectic members who have traversed the globe and can offer both objectivity and subjective flights of fancy on this topic. Your thoughts?

EDIT: NO POLITICAL NONSENSE or subtext please

This is just my experience of course, but to me there is a huge difference between the countries you mentioned. I would advice to go on holiday there first and get a feel for the place, culture, food, and social interaction.

For instance, I feel very at home with Italians and Swiss people; love the Italian kitchen and the culture too. Asia is also close to my heart.

 

[OldHvyMec]

As a person that worked in many different countries, there is no place like home. As a youngster I was dragged all over western Europe because my father was in
an advisory group for the USAF.

I would recommend planning a good road trip or two here in the US before hitting Europe. You mentioned cannabis tolerant countries. There aren't any for non locals and that is always in question. I can see the writing on the wall and in the US based news papers.

I've seen some pretty nasty confrontations in airport security alone and not just in Europe. Central and south America look for people just like you to shake down
and you wind up with every penny you will ever earn, owed to a lawyer and paying fines from behind bars just to keep from being someone's squeeze toy.

Your in Las Vegas, try Kansas, you know where Dorothy was from in the Wizard of Oz. You'll find the locals speak the language and healthcare isn't something you
wish you were back in the US for. The US has the finest healthcare in the world. They usually won't tell you pay up or buy a funeral plan down the hall.

I would venture to say anyplace is better than Las Vegas in the US except maybe Death Valley which is just a few miles away from LV and Imperial Valley CA.

Seclusion, try the Rocky mountain or the Sierras and after a winter or two of "seclusion" I'm sure you'll rethink what you thought being alone was all about.

Europe, SE Asia, Eastern Europe, the middle east, your a full blow target just for being an American and with no language skills, a quick footnote on the internet
and that is about it.

I had the homey hookup because of my counterparts in other countries (mechanics). For some reason most of us are pretty well respected in most foreign countries.
Tourist ARE NOT. They are tolerated at best and that is completely because of the weight of your wallet. I learned real quick to SMELL like the natives and dress like
the rest of the people. I was detained in Panama for 89 days in the 70s over the cargo transport I was on. They were carrying medical vaccines, which had nothing to
do with the 11 man crew that was detained. One of us didn't come home. It was the oldest guy in the group he was 37 at the time. He also had the biggest mouth.

As a good buddy of mine used to say, Eat your hamburger and be happy, if your not order some fries and a slice of pie to go with it.

I wish you well but I'd really rethink that "moving out of the US" thing. There is a reason why people are coming to America and visiting a foreign country or two.

Regards

 

[Honken]

I have no relevant personal experience, but being in the tech industry I have been unable to escape the news that Portugal is a popular destination for "digital nomads". These digital nomads are not very popular with the locals in affected neighbourhoods because the relative massive income of the nomads is disrupting the local markets (housing especially). In other words, perhaps you should look into places a bit off the main beaten path. News around this topic has died down in the last year or so, not sure if this is still an issue.

 

[Astoneroad]

This is just my experience of course, but to me there is a huge difference between the countries you mentioned. I would advice to go on holiday there first and get a feel for the place, culture, food, and social interaction.

For instance, I feel very at home with Italians and Swiss people; love the Italian kitchen and the culture too. Asia is also close to my heart.

Agreed. I'll be renting short term until/unless I find a place to spend more time. If I don't like somewhere, I'll leave... once I've seen all their artwork... lol. My social interaction is always minimal, but the food is important. So far, neighborhoods in Lisbon & Porto check my boxes. From what I've found so far, English isn't going to be an issue in these metro areas, especially when transactional rather than discussing the god of Spinoza with a non English speaker... lol. Amsterdam is on my list... ya gotta love a one eared reclusive genius that didn't get along with his fellow man... a madman after my own heart. Perhaps we can meet at the Hague for coffee... we can invite @voodooless and Vincent ... lol.

 

[Astoneroad]

As a person that worked in many different countries, there is no place like home. As a youngster I was dragged all over western Europe because my father was in
an advisory group for the USAF.

I would recommend planning a good road trip or two here in the US before hitting Europe. You mentioned cannabis tolerant countries. There aren't any for non locals and that is always in question. I can see the writing on the wall and in the US based news papers.

I've seen some pretty nasty confrontations in airport security alone and not just in Europe. Central and south America look for people just like you to shake down
and you wind up with every penny you will ever earn, owed to a lawyer and paying fines from behind bars just to keep from being someone's squeeze toy.

Your in Las Vegas, try Kansas, you know where Dorothy was from in the Wizard of Oz. You'll find the locals speak the language and healthcare isn't something you
wish you were back in the US for. The US has the finest healthcare in the world. They usually won't tell you pay up or buy a funeral plan down the hall.

I would venture to say anyplace is better than Las Vegas in the US except maybe Death Valley which is just a few miles away from LV and Imperial Valley CA.

Seclusion, try the Rocky mountain or the Sierras and after a winter or two of "seclusion" I'm sure you'll rethink what you thought being alone was all about.

Europe, SE Asia, Eastern Europe, the middle east, your a full blow target just for being an American and with no language skills, a quick footnote on the internet
and that is about it.

I had the homey hookup because of my counterparts in other countries (mechanics). For some reason most of us are pretty well respected in most foreign countries.
Tourist ARE NOT. They are tolerated at best and that is completely because of the weight of your wallet. I learned real quick to SMELL like the natives and dress like
the rest of the people. I was detained in Panama for 89 days in the 70s over the cargo transport I was on. They were carrying medical vaccines, which had nothing to
do with the 11 man crew that was detained. One of us didn't come home. It was the oldest guy in the group he was 37 at the time. He also had the biggest mouth.

As a good buddy of mine used to say, Eat your hamburger and be happy, if your not order some fries and a slice of pie to go with it.

I wish you well but I'd really rethink that "moving out of the US" thing. There is a reason why people are coming to America and visiting a foreign country or two.

Regards

Thanks for your thoughtful first hand insights. You and I had mirror experiences... I traveled all 50 states by the time I was 27, hitchiking 50,000 miles before I was 22, then another 10,000 miles on motorcycles criss crossing the country, including a ride from L.A. to New Orleans for Mardi Gras in '77, 3 months before turning 20, in homage to Easy Rider's ill fated sojourn. I feel like I can express a "vibe" about each state and the people that met. Been there, done that... and left. Oddly enough, I've always felt more content with places in my rear view than on my horizon. I managed to save some of my hitch hiking signs which I've got on a wall in my studio today.

We'll see what cards come on the turn and the river...

 

[Marc v E]

Agreed. I'll be renting short term until/unless I find a place to spend more time. If I don't like somewhere, I'll leave... once I've seen all their artwork... lol. My social interaction is always minimal, but the food is important. So far, neighborhoods in Lisbon & Porto check my boxes. From what I've found so far, English isn't going to be an issue in these metro areas, especially when transactional rather than discussing the god of Spinoza with a non English speaker... lol. Amsterdam is on my list... ya gotta love a one eared reclusive genius that didn't get along with his fellow man... a madman after my own heart. Perhaps we can meet at the Hague for coffee... we can invite @voodooless and Vincent ... lol.

If you come to the Netherlands, and would like to go to Amsterdam, I would recommend Haarlem. A much more relaxed and authentic experience imo. It's very close to Amsterdam, should you want to visit a museum there, has all the benefits but almost none of the drawbacks.

 

[Astoneroad]

If you come to the Netherlands, and would like to go to Amsterdam, I would recommend Haarlem. A much more relaxed and authentic experience imo. It's very close to Amsterdam, should you want to visit a museum there, has all the benefits but almost none of the drawbacks.

I actually have a Vincent meets The Doors story that I posted in a thread 2 years ago...

"It was in the early 2000's, (03-05). I was living in Atlanta and a huge Van Gogh exhibit came to the High Museum. As I'm looking at a Van Gogh self portrait, alone, I noticed someone looking at it from the corner of my eye, about 6 feet away. I turned and it was Ray Manzerak, the keyboardist for The Doors. He turned to me, I smiled and reached out to shake his hand and I said "Thank You". After a momentary pause, he smiled and shook my hand. Over the course of the next hour walking around the show, we crossed paths a few times, never spoke again, but smiled each time and acknowledged the moment. Looking at a Van Gogh, meeting a legend... being the only two looking at the same Van Gogh... at the same time... that was a carpe diem moment for me... even 20 years later."

So... minimal degrees of separation between Vincent, Jim Morrison and myself... reclusive madmen... all.

“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'" - Kerouac

This thread has turned off the main travel highway and is running loose down some bohemian back roads... sorry about that. I'll attempt to corral the indulgences.

​

 

[fredoamigo]

I'm retired and in my late 60's and considering making my "next to last exit" and moving out of the U.S. (Las Vegas) I'm doing my homework for an ex pat destination and the usual suspects rise to the top, Panama, Albania, Portugal, Costa Rica and a few others. I only speak English, so being somewhere that this isn't a huge obstacle is a top priority, with cost of living the next check box. Nightlife isn't my scene, but I love art studios, museums, galleries, history and bohemian outlets, along with a cannabis tolerant, if not legal, locale. I'm looking at neighborhoods in Lisbon and Porto and there are several viable candidates. I'm open to any and all thoughts on any aspect of this move, including alternatives and "I wish I knew that before I moved" toe stubs. I intend to not bring anything other than clothes and necessary items. (So look for the gear sale that I'll post here... lol) I know that we have a very diverse group of eclectic members who have traversed the globe and can offer both objectivity and subjective flights of fancy on this topic. Your thoughts?

EDIT: NO POLITICAL NONSENSE or subtext please

One important thing is that you need to consider the healthcare system in your future country. I have already thought about these things and, like you, I have also asked myself this question. But as a French person, food is also important. So, if I were to leave, my favorites would be Greece, Morocco, Portugal, Uruguay, and finally Brazil, only because I know this country well and have already stayed there for some time. But I would not recommend it to a newcomer in their sixties. For your specific case, you should consider Morocco, Greece, or Portugal.

 

[Astoneroad]

One important thing is that you need to consider the healthcare system in your future country. I have already thought about these things and, like you, I have also asked myself this question. But as a French person, food is also important. So, if I were to leave, my favorites would be Greece, Morocco, Portugal, Uruguay, and finally Brazil, only because I know this country well and have already stayed there for some time. But I would not recommend it to a newcomer in their sixties. For your specific case, you should consider Morocco, Greece, or Portugal.

Thanks, great to hear it from someone that has done it. I'm also considering Canada... they speak English and I can drive there... which means I could pack my audio gear in the SUV and bring it with me!

 

[DSJR]

Got to wish you luck in your travels and possible new locale

Being hypertensive and T2 Diabetic, I have to repeat the advice above as regards health (and dental) care, both now and in the future. You may be lucky now, but in five years or more time?

In a way, I envy the SIZE of the US, where things away from the cities seem far more spread out, room to BREATHE and the wide open spaces really do appeal. I only came over once, on our honeymoon to Vermont, and obviously had rather more important things on my mind than travelling around much, although we did a bit in the time we were there The central part of the US does appeal to the loner still in me, as distant perceptions seem to indicate the general 'remoteness' of central northern America (am I right or totally out of my tree in thinking this?). Again, a scouting trip would be far easier perhaps, if you've not done it before in your life?

I do with you luck

Effin 'ell folks, I've just seen the pic in the post above and you could get the entire UK including all of Ireland into one half of it or less I reckon.

 

[Ken1951]

We've also thought about it and have looked online at real estate in many parts of France. But we live in a university town and have great doctors, a wonderful house and yard (about 0.7 acres), and overall great weather. B-burg is at about 2,000 ft elevation and gets neither all that cold nor all that hot for any extended periods of time. But it is of some interest to us.

 

[Astoneroad]

Got to wish you luck in your travels and possible new locale

Being hypertensive and T2 Diabetic, I have to repeat the advice above as regards health (and dental) care, both now and in the future. You may be lucky now, but in five years or more time?

In a way, I envy the SIZE of the US, where things away from the cities seem far more spread out, room to BREATHE and the wide open spaces really do appeal. I only came over once, on our honeymoon to Vermont, and obviously had rather more important things on my mind than travelling around much, although we did a bit in the time we were there The central part of the US does appeal to the loner still in me, as distant perceptions seem to indicate the general 'remoteness' of central northern America (am I right or totally out of my tree in thinking this?). Again, a scouting trip would be far easier perhaps, if you've not done it before in your life?

I do with you luck

Effin 'ell folks, I've just seen the pic in the post above and you could get the entire UK including all of Ireland into one half of it or less I reckon.

You're spot on. If you look at this pic, in the bottom left corner are some houses. I live in one of them. The mountainous desert that you see going into the horizon is a 50,000 acres desert preserve and is a 5 minute walk from my house. I've hiked a little over 3,000 miles in the last 8 years... all were done in the middle of the night. Once the sunrises, the temperature is usually BRUTAL. One could actually walk all the way from my house to Phoenix Arizona without coming anywhere near a city, a 300 mile trek.

Thanks for your well wishes. Your cautions are well taken.

This is Vegas from the trail at night, about 25 miles away. The furthest boundary of the city is about 40 miles, then nothing until Salt Lake City, 400 miles north. The first lights are my neighborhood, a 10 mile hike from this vantage point. So, yes, your perceptions of vast space are accurate.

 

[Astoneroad]

We've also thought about it and have looked online at real estate in many parts of France. But we live in a university town and have great doctors, a wonderful house and yard (about 0.7 acres), and overall great weather. B-burg is at about 2,000 ft elevation and gets neither all that cold nor all that hot for any extended periods of time. But it is of some interest to us.

It's hard to put all your chips into the pot... when the risk vs reward (pot odds) isn't overwhelming in some way. In my case, an event scheduled in a little over a year will be the tipping point for me to leave or not... but has nothing to do with where. Which is why I'm researching this now. The funny thing is the silly assumption that I'll still be here by then... or by tomorrow for that matter... lol. No one has gotten reality right yet... not Aristotle, Lucretius... or Einstein who didn't believe in "Spooky actions at a distance"... which turned out to true... go figure.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

I lived in Cascais for three years in the ‘80s. I imagine it’s changed a great deal since then, but I’d move back in a heartbeat if I could. Beautiful place, great food, wine, fado, people.