Considering “upgrading” to Dan Clark headphones. Need advice.

[Saturn94]

Did you get your Closed X EQ from Oratory, from the following link?

index/list_of_presets - oratory1990

r/oratory1990: Mostly covering topics like headphones, in-ear headphones, acoustics, electroacoustics, acoustic tuning, headphone design …

www.reddit.com

I only say that because the pic I included a few posts earlier was of an HD560s EQ, so you don't want to be using that (albeit I did make that ultra clear in my earlier post, but just wanted to double check with you here).

The BW column stands for Bandwidth - it's just another way of describing the same thing as Q-Factor, which is basically just describing how narrow or wide an EQ filter is; the wider the filter then the more frequencies it will effect either side of it's centre point - ie a wide filter will look wide & flat on a frequency response graph in comparison to a narrow filter which will look sharp, narrow & pointy. The lower the Q-Factor then the wider the filter. The higher the Bandwidth (BW) then the wider the filter. They're both just describing the shape of the filter in terms of it's width of frequency effect, and you'll use Q-Factor or BW dependant on what your EQ software uses. Most EQ software uses Q-Factor, so you'd just ignore the BW column and instead input the Q-Factor settings into your EQ program. So of course you don't use both at the same time, you use one or the other dependant on what your EQ software is setup to use.

Thanks for the clarification and explanation.

Yes, I understood the pic you posted from Oratory was just an example and not for the Closed X. I found the Closed X listed in that same Oratory link posted earlier and used it. I greatly appreciate you making sure I wasn’t using the wrong settings.

 

[Firefly00]

So, would the JDS Atom+ amp be powerful enough?

JDS Atom Amp+ Review (Headphone Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JDS Labs Atom Amp+ headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $99. It was announced today. The Amp+ follows the same recent industrial design in JDS amps and dacs: It is light but functional. Dual gains are provided...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The only measurement in the review that corresponds with the graph you posted seems to be the voltage output? I don’t see wattage or amperage output at 12 ohms. This is where I get lost.

I could power my Aeon RTs direct from an iPad Pro

 

[Saturn94]

I could power my Aeon RTs direct from an iPad Pro

Yep. I was surprised I could drive my Aeon X Closed to satisfying levels with my iPad and iPhone.

 

[JanesJr1]

I am glad to know about this pad business with RT. If it's as simple as the pads correcting the bass dip, I am a happy camper. I don't find the RT Closed directly from DCA thin sounding in any way, but always wondered if I made a mistake and should have took the pain and bought the Noire. (since I don't EQ).

Now, with knowing about the pads, I'm thinking it would very much be the land of diminishing returns to ever consider Noire.

See https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-aeon-2-noire-and-stealth.34592/post-1236132 . This is not specific to the perforations, just the choice between Noire and RT/Closed X.

In the months since I did this comparison, I have listened to both DCA headphones as well as a number of other headphones and IEM's. In hindsight, I think all the A/B comparisons I did back then had me "too close" to the sound of the Noire. With long term use, I see the Noire as a bigger step up from the Closed X (which I also liked a great deal) than I did then, especially the soundstage and balance-among-instruments aspects I referred to back then, for acoustic sources especially. And the Noire is just more resolving. I also agree with others that EQ is better than using the pads, to enhance the open sound and detail.

The strength of my conviction makes me wonder if, in fact, the Noire soundstage has opened up since my original auditions. I know: that kind of break-in thing is supposed to be magical thinking by subjectivists, and that we break-in to our headphones rather than the reverse. However, in the last 6 months, at most 20-25% of my listening time is on the Noire for various reasons, and the rest on Hifiman, Sennheiser and Moondrop; so any long-term accomodation to the Noire might be diluted. And Dan Clark has made the claim more than once that something about the adhesion of the electrical leads to the Noire's planar membrane causes a need for break-in with this headphone. I dunno one way or 'tother about Noire break-in for sure... but I really like the Noire, and living with it over time has increased my subjective appreciation a lot. I can't tell you how many times I have switched between transducers and have been yet again reminded why I like the tonality, separation, detail, soundstage, low distortion, and sense of FR balance of that headphone.

 

[Blake]

The photo is fine if you know what you are looking at. What you see in the photo is a seam on the inner side of the upper pad that clearly shows a division between the perf and non-perf side. Maybe not the best photo to show the effect but nonetheless it does show something.

Not only that, the bottom photo shows no seam on top, but just the bottom. Easy to spot if you know what to look for.

I'm not grasping what you're trying to say here. The claim is that Aeon RT Closed does not have perforations while Aeon X Closed does. I'm saying that's not the case because Aeon RT has perforations, as shown in my photo (and identical to perforations shown in Aeon Closed X at Drop's site). So there appears to be no difference in pads.

If someone here has received an Aeon RT Closed without perforations, let's see it, please. That would be evidence that the stock pad changed for the RT.

Alternatively, if someone has Aeon X Closed without perforations, that's evidence that Drop's photo is wrong and/or the stock pad changed for the X.

Until then, it seems safe to assert that both models use the same pads.

 

[Saturn94]

if you're instead using the one that I created (don't know if I showed you that one) in the DCA Closed X thread then you'll want to be using that EQ without any of the white pads installed

Going back through these posts regarding EQ, I think I’m a little confused. To which EQ settings does this refer? If not already posted in this thread, a link would be great.

Edit: Are you referring to your PEQ settings in this thread?

Drop Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X

This thread is to cover Drop's release of their version of Dan Clark Audio's Aeon Closed RT headphones, which Drop calls the "Aeon Closed X". All discussion is welcome. Here is the link: Drop + Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X Drop's description of their collaboration: "Our last collaboration...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks.

 

[JanesJr1]

I am certain the Noire is superior, but if I sold my RT, would probably end up with less than $400 in my pocket and then buy the Noire for $899. I just don't see $500 worth of improvement happening for me.

Your logic is correct, of course. But FYI, as a prior buyer of the DCA RT headphone, your purchase of the Noire would be eligible for a DCA Club discount to $765 vs. the retail price of $899.

 

[Robbo99999]

Going back through these posts regarding EQ, I think I’m a little confused. To which EQ settings does this refer? If not already posted in this thread, a link would be great.

Edit: Are you referring to your PEQ settings in this thread?

Drop Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X

This thread is to cover Drop's release of their version of Dan Clark Audio's Aeon Closed RT headphones, which Drop calls the "Aeon Closed X". All discussion is welcome. Here is the link: Drop + Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X Drop's description of their collaboration: "Our last collaboration...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks.

Yes, the ones in that thread are without the white pad installed - those are the EQ's I created from Resolve's measurements. He measured two units, I did a seperate EQ for each one: Sample 1 and Sample 2, and then I did an EQ of an average of the two.......consensus at the time was that Sample 2 was probably going to be more representative.

 

[Saturn94]

Yes, the ones in that thread are without the white pad installed - those are the EQ's I created from Resolve's measurements. He measured two units, I did a seperate EQ for each one: Sample 1 and Sample 2, and then I did an EQ of an average of the two.......consensus at the time was that Sample 2 was probably going to be more representative.

Thanks. Listening to Sample 2 now, no filter pads; sounds great!

 

[JanesJr1]

That is indeed a good discount but for some reason the it is not showing up when I add it to the cart. First, I need to decide if it's going to be something I want to do and it's been a challenge finding out if they are different enough for it to make sense. Next, I need to contact DCA to see why the discount isn't showing.

I suppose I could do the buy and try ........ decisions .....

Good luck. When I got my DCA club discount, they were fine on me giving them a receipt from my original Closed X vendor, and input the discount for me. They were also accessible and helpful on technical questions. I guess JDS Labs is like that, too ... it kind of makes me want to buy with a domestic mfr on my next purchase, rather than deal with overseas customer service (or possibly slow or absent version of same). Anyway, DCA = friendly folks, in my book.

PS on the value/cost of Closed X vs Noire, I am happy I upgraded. But I might not have seen the same difference except for my >50% classical listening mix. I just really came to appreciate the tonal balance and sense of "being there" in the audience with the Noire. To someone else, the Noire might sound like a bit more recessed in the mids. When I did A/B comparisons, I totally came down in favor of that FR balance, to my surprise ... but someone else might go, "meh", especially if they weren't classical or maybe jazz listeners with a bias toward fidelity with acoustic performances. The Closed X is very good (methinks) on all genres, just not quite as resolving and spacious. It's also just a little more damped, but not much. If I didn't have the Noire, I'd still be listening to the Closed X at least half the time. With electronica, most rock, and other genres, I'd be just as happy with the Closed X.

(The underlying mystery: I had carefully EQ'd both 'phones to the same, Oratory/Harman curve, but the Noire still sounded a bit more recessed in the mids, and also more balanced among the range of instruments. The difference is either an unmeasured FR difference, or some other unmeasured ambience factor.)

 

[Saturn94]

Yes, the ones in that thread are without the white pad installed - those are the EQ's I created from Resolve's measurements. He measured two units, I did a seperate EQ for each one: Sample 1 and Sample 2, and then I did an EQ of an average of the two.......consensus at the time was that Sample 2 was probably going to be more representative.

I’m still really liking your Sample 2 best so far. Great job!

 

[Robbo99999]

I’m still really liking your Sample 2 best so far. Great job!

Hey, thanks! We have to thank Resolve of course for measuring them in the first place too. And Oratory has measured this headphone since I did that EQ......but I suppose if you like my EQ better than Oratory's then it could be the Sample 2 measurement of Resolve's matches the actual frequency response of your unit closer than the unit(s) that Oratory measured. Or maybe the inclusion of the white pad creates some undesirable effects (which is part of the inclusion of the Oratory EQ).

 

[Saturn94]

Hey, thanks! We have to thank Resolve of course for measuring them in the first place too. And Oratory has measured this headphone since I did that EQ......but I suppose if you like my EQ better than Oratory's then it could be the Sample 2 measurement of Resolve's matches the actual frequency response of your unit closer than the unit(s) that Oratory measured. Or maybe the inclusion of the white pad creates some undesirable effects (which is part of the inclusion of the Oratory EQ).

I greatly appreciate all who freely take the time and effort to provide the rest of us such great tools to improve our listening experience! I’m also appreciating more and more the DSP features in Roon that allow me to take advantage of this.

I was thinking in my case, it could be the filters based on Oratory’s measurements are more “correct“, but your Sample 2 filter settings just better suit my personal preferences.

 

[Robbo99999]

I greatly appreciate all who freely take the time and effort to provide the rest of us such great tools to improve our listening experience! I’m also appreciating more and more the DSP features in Roon that allow me to take advantage of this.

I was thinking in my case, it could be the filters based on Oratory’s measurements are more “correct“, but your Sample 2 filter settings just better suit my personal preferences.

It's possible it could be that, there's no way of knowing unless you have your unit measured.

 

[Saturn94]

Hey, thanks! We have to thank Resolve of course for measuring them in the first place too. And Oratory has measured this headphone since I did that EQ......but I suppose if you like my EQ better than Oratory's then it could be the Sample 2 measurement of Resolve's matches the actual frequency response of your unit closer than the unit(s) that Oratory measured. Or maybe the inclusion of the white pad creates some undesirable effects (which is part of the inclusion of the Oratory EQ).

I figured I‘d post an update now that I’ve have a few months with my new headphone setup. I must say that I’m still thrilled with this setup and your Sample 2 PEQ settings!

 

[Robbo99999]

I figured I‘d post an update now that I’ve have a few months with my new headphone setup. I must say that I’m still thrilled with this setup and your Sample 2 PEQ settings!

I'm pleased it's still working out for you! And there is something in that, oftentimes a new EQ or a new headphone can produce a "honeymoon effect" whereby you think it's the bees-knees at first just because it's new & different (both from a psychological point of view, but also because it's presenting the music in a different way), but then over time if you still like it then this is a good sign.