Connecting Unbalanced DAC to Balanced Amp

[sherm137]

Hey all,

I have a (noob) question about connecting my soon-to-arrive gear. I have a Topping D10 DAC with RCA outputs and will soon have a Cayin iHA-6 amp.

If I connect the amp and DAC using an RCA cable with no balanced adapter, will I be able to use the balanced outputs of the amp or will I only be able to use the single-ended output? If I am able to use the balanced outputs in this specific setup, will I still get the extra power benefits of the balanced outputs? Sorry, I am in no way an electrical expert.

This isn't a question of sound quality difference, just pure functionality.

If this won't work, can you recommend a balanced DAC that is around $200 or less that has a USB input? I know SMSL SU 8 would work but know of no other options, and I like having options to research

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[orangejello]

You can get RCA->XLR interconnects. Pro Audio LA will make you a set with Canare Star-Quad wire and Neutrik connectors. I believe Benchmark will also sell you the same thing, but they cost more at Benchmark, probably because they are made for them, and there is some overhead involved.

As to the question about getting the same output voltage as XLR->XLR, I doubt it. But I don't know for sure.

 

[MRC01]

You can wire the DAC's unbalanced output directly to the amp's balanced input (but you can't do the opposite: wire balanced output directly to unbalanced input).

I believe the best way to wire it is for the unbalanced (-) output to connect to both pins 1 and 3 on the balanced side (negative & ground), and the unbalanced (+) output to connect to pin 2 on the balanced side (positive). That is, carry the source ground through to the amp input. However, the EEs here will correct me if it's wrong.

All that said, you may get low output levels because unbalanced (consumer) carries a lower signal level than balanced (pro). The amp probably has enough gain to compensate for that.

 

[sherm137]

You can get RCA->XLR interconnects. Pro Audio LA will make you a set with Canare Star-Quad wire and Neutrik connectors. I believe Benchmark will also sell you the same thing, but they cost more at Benchmark, probably because they are made for them, and there is some overhead involved.

As to the question about getting the same output voltage as XLR->XLR, I doubt it. But I don't know for sure.

Thanks for the recommendation! But if I don't have those connections and am just using a standard RCA cable, will the balanced outputs on the amp work or will only the single-ended output work?

 

[MRC01]

Looking at that amp's product reference page, it already has both balanced, and unbalanced, analog inputs. So you don't need to do any custom wiring. Just connect your DAC's unbalanced analog output to the amp's unbalanced input.
If it's like the Oppo HA-1 that I used to own, which had both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs, the outputs are independent of the inputs. That is, you can use either output with either input.

 

[sherm137]

Looking at that amp's product reference page, it already has both balanced, and unbalanced, analog inputs. So you don't need to do any custom wiring. Just connect your DAC's unbalanced analog output to the amp's unbalanced input.
If it's like the Oppo HA-1 that I used to own, which had both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs, the outputs are independent of the inputs. That is, you can use either output with either input.

Awesome! That's what I was hoping to hear

 

[digitalfrost]

You can get RCA->XLR interconnects. Pro Audio LA will make you a set with Canare Star-Quad wire and Neutrik connectors. I believe Benchmark will also sell you the same thing, but they cost more at Benchmark, probably because they are made for them, and there is some overhead involved.

As to the question about getting the same output voltage as XLR->XLR, I doubt it. But I don't know for sure.

I just soldered Canare cables with Neutrik connectors myself. The money Benchmark charges is absolutely justified. They were a bitch to solder. I have to admit I'm out of practice, but the space in the RCA connector is so small I had to cut them 3 times and start from scratch until I was satisfied.

 

[orangejello]

I just soldered Canare cables with Neutrik connectors myself. The money Benchmark charges is absolutely justified. They were a bitch to solder. I have to admit I'm out of practice, but the space in the RCA connector is so small I had to cut them 3 times and start from scratch until I was satisfied.

No doubt. I used to put together my own cables too. If you look at is as a craft, like knitting hats, it is an OK pastime. For $50 including shipping, Pro Audio LA is hard to beat. They are very good at communicating. I told them I want the cables wired ala Benchmark and pointed them to Benchmark's web page. They replied that that was the default way that they make them up. They mentioned that some bass players like a different wiring scheme, which they oblige - but that was the exception. As to Benchmark prices, they are very fair. Considering they have to get them made, stock them, inventory them, it is fair. Plus they don't go down the BS road to the land where some snake oil salesmen charge more for a single interconnect than what Benchmark sells their AHB2 for!

 

[Ron Texas]

Although the question is moot for the OP, adapter cables may be purchased from just about anyplace which handles pro audio gear. If the amp has 1/4" balanced in, usually a cheap rca female to 1/4" unbalanced adapter will do the job with your existing interconnects.

 

[garbulky]

If you went the trouble to get yourself a fully balanced amp, get yourself a fully balanced dac.

 

[orangejello]

Yeah. I know. But I wanted reasonably good quality and durability - and specifically Canare, since that it what is used in most microphone cables.

 

[garbulky]

Yeah. I know. But I wanted reasonably good quality and durability - and specifically Canare, since that it what is used in most microphone cables.

Understandable! I would just use the RCA inputs then.

 

[Ron Texas]

If you went the trouble to get yourself a fully balanced amp, get yourself a fully balanced dac.

It hardly matters with the short cable runs used between a DAC and a headphone amp.

 

[sherm137]

If you went the trouble to get yourself a fully balanced amp, get yourself a fully balanced dac.

That's eventually the plan, but there aren't many options for under $500. Have to save more money.

 

[MRC01]

It [balanced vs. unbalanced] hardly matters with the short cable runs used between a DAC and a headphone amp.

A fully balanced DAC may actually be slightly superior.

Looking at the data sheet for the WM8741, the analog outputs from the chip itself appear to be balanced. That is, it has 4 analog output pins VOUT{L,R}{P,N}, and it says that N is inverted P. That's a balanced/differential signal. If the analog taps from the DAC chip itself are balanced, then an unbalanced DAC has to convert it. Wouldn't that imply a 3-6 dB reduction in SINAD?

I don't know... that's why I'm asking.

PS: that particular chip also has slightly better measurements when in mono mode. So having 1 for each channel could give slightly better performance than a single chip in stereo mode.

 

[orangejello]

If you went the trouble to get yourself a fully balanced amp, get yourself a fully balanced dac.

I am using a passive preamp that doesn't have balanced output. Have to deal with my vinyl playback too.

 

[jsrtheta]

Looking at that amp's product reference page, it already has both balanced, and unbalanced, analog inputs. So you don't need to do any custom wiring. Just connect your DAC's unbalanced analog output to the amp's unbalanced input.
If it's like the Oppo HA-1 that I used to own, which had both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs, the outputs are independent of the inputs. That is, you can use either output with either input.

Precisely. I have a preamp with balanced outputs (and unbalanced RCA outputs as well) but no balanced inputs. My DAC had balanced and unbalanced outputs, though I couldn't use the DAC's balanced outputs because the damned preamp doesn't have the corresponding balanced inputs. I run the DAC unbalanced, obviously, to the unbalanced preamp inputs, then I use the balanced preamp outputs to my amplifier's balanced inputs.

Sounds great!