connecting both HPA and Speaker Amp to a single DAC

[Wolfram98]

I am planning a setup of
Topping D90 for a Dac(or similar)
topping a90 for an HeadPhone Amp(or similar).
Audiophonics AP310-PREAMP for further connection to speakers.
The question is this: How do i connect the Dac to A90 and AP310 without either being able to influence each others volume?
the obvious answer of using the XLR output of A90 and connect it to AP310, but i cant seem to find any information about the input and output XLR's(A90) being bridged or requiring going through the preamp of the A90 itself, thus reauiriing A90 to be powered on for AP310 to receive any signal at all.
i want the headphone and speakers to be absolutely independent of each other control and volume wise.
my current O2+ODAC(single unit) serves this feature perfectly since the RCA-out is always at full volume regardless of O2's headphone volume setting.
dual DAC configuration will be THE last resort.

 

[Chagall]

I am planning a setup of
Topping D90 for a Dac(or similar)
topping a90 for an HeadPhone Amp(or similar).
Audiophonics AP310-PREAMP for further connection to speakers.
The question is this: How do i connect the Dac to A90 and AP310 without either being able to influence each others volume?
the obvious answer of using the XLR output of A90 and connect it to AP310, but i cant seem to find any information about the input and output XLR's(A90) being bridged or requiring going through the preamp of the A90 itself, thus reauiriing A90 to be powered on for AP310 to receive any signal at all.
i want the headphone and speakers to be absolutely independent of each other control and volume wise.
my current O2+ODAC(single unit) serves this feature perfectly since the RCA-out is always at full volume regardless of O2's headphone volume setting.
dual DAC configuration will be THE last resort.

No need for dual DACs. Run the D90 as a fixed-level DAC (Topping calls this DAC mode, i.e., no volume control / 0 dB output), then feed two separate volume controls:
D90 XLR out -> A90 (XLR in) for headphones
D90 RCA out -> AP310-PREAMP (RCA in) for speakers

But why do you need Audiophonics pre, do you need more inputs? A90 Discrete supports HPA, PRE, and PRE+HPA, and it can remember separate volume settings for those modes, so headphone level and speaker level can be recalled independently when switching.

 

[Wolfram98]

No need for dual DACs. Run the D90 as a fixed-level DAC (Topping calls this DAC mode, i.e., no volume control / 0 dB output), then feed two separate volume controls:
D90 XLR out -> A90 (XLR in) for headphones
D90 RCA out -> AP310-PREAMP (RCA in) for speakers

But why do you need Audiophonics pre, do you need more inputs? A90 Discrete supports HPA, PRE, and PRE+HPA, and it can remember separate volume settings for those modes, so headphone level and speaker level can be recalled independently when switching.

the native places for controlling both devices are separated by ~2m. i am getting a dx5 shortly and will see how it plays out, but to me i want a dedicated button for controlling the volume of the speakers and this is what the ap310 will allow me for future active speakers.
remembering the logic state of the A90(or dx5) to be sure that no sound will come from speakers is not something i want to do/keep in mind.
and using RCA inputs on the ap310 to output to XLR feels like shooting myself in the foot audio quality wise.
the active speakers im considering(genelec 83xx) only have xlr inputs and seem to be more expensive to add volume control via a remote than to simply insert an ap310 into the chain.

i've considered XLR splitters, but i see that one cable's price is 30eur and there is no choice for them.

 

[Chagall]

the native places for controlling both devices are separated by ~2m. i am getting a dx5 shortly and will see how it plays out, but to me i want a dedicated button for controlling the volume of the speakers and this is what the ap310 will allow me for future active speakers.
remembering the logic state of the A90(or dx5) to be sure that no sound will come from speakers is not something i want to do/keep in mind.
and using RCA inputs on the ap310 to output to XLR feels like shooting myself in the foot audio quality wise.
the active speakers im considering(genelec 83xx) only have xlr inputs and seem to be more expensive to add volume control via a remote than to simply insert an ap310 into the chain.

i've considered XLR splitters, but i see that one cable's price is 30eur and there is no choice for them.

If you are already getting the DX5 II DAC/amp combo, you don't need a separate headphone amp. You can just use its line outputs (XLR if your speakers take XLR).

1. Simplest setup (one XLR pair): DX5 II XLR out -> active speakers. The DX5 II controls speaker volume, so it needs to be in PRE mode (variable output). If you are OK relying on the DX5 II's mode/state, you don't need the AP310.
2. If you want a dedicated speaker volume control / no "mode remembering": use two XLR pairs: DX5 II XLR out -> AP310 XLR in -> active speakers. Set the DX5 II to DAC mode (fixed output), and let the AP310 be the only speaker volume control.

And BTW, you are not really "losing audio quality" by going RCA into a preamp. With a short cable run it's generally a non-issue. The main benefit of balanced/XLR is noise rejection on longer runs to the speakers.

 

[Wolfram98]

1. If you want a dedicated speaker volume control / no "mode remembering": use two XLR pairs: DX5 II XLR out -> AP310 XLR in -> active speakers. Set the DX5 II to DAC mode (fixed output), and let the AP310 be the only speaker volume control.

By setting the DX5 into DAC mode will it only output to XLR and lose all HPA capabilities?
i will check how long the switching takes when i get the unit in a week, but my ideal setup is HPA and (PreAmp for speaker) are absolutely separate and are fed the same full strength audio signal from a DAC through XLR. The XLR splitter seems like some kind of a hack that is not an approved way to get the results i desire.

 

[Chagall]

By setting the DX5 into DAC mode will it only output to XLR and lose all HPA capabilities?

No, you don't lose HPA. If you set the outputs to DAC mode, the XLR and RCA outputs are set to fixed-level (full output). In that case, you should connect them to a preamp, NOT directly to a power amp or active speakers. DX5 II HPA will still work independantly when you switch to it. I encourage you to read the manual carefully.

i will check how long the switching takes when i get the unit in a week, but my ideal setup is HPA and (PreAmp for speaker) are absolutely separate and are fed the same full strength audio signal from a DAC through XLR.

If that is ideal for you then go with option 2 I have wrote in the previous post.

The XLR splitter seems like some kind of a hack that is not an approved way to get the results i desire.

Why do you need a splitter if you have DX5 II DAC AMP combo, what are you splitting?? You only use one set of XLRs from the back of the device to the preamp (AP310 XLR in) and another set from preamp (AP310 XLR out) to powered speakers.

 

[Wolfram98]

No, you don't lose HPA. If you set the outputs to DAC mode, the XLR and RCA outputs are set to fixed-level (full output).

oh, now that you mentioned it it seems that the dx5 II does have an ability to output pure Dac signal alongside the HPA .
i must have looked more into the A90 amp where the manual is not very forthcoming on how the input and output XLR's are connected and if its possible to do a passthrough without any modifications.

 

[Wolfram98]

No, you don't lose HPA. If you set the outputs to DAC mode, the XLR and RCA outputs are set to fixed-level (full output). In that case, you should connect them to a preamp, NOT directly to a power amp or active speakers. DX5 II HPA will still work independantly when you switch to it. I encourage you to read the manual carefully.



If that is ideal for you then go with option 2 I have wrote in the previous post.



Why do you need a splitter if you have DX5 II DAC AMP combo, what are you splitting?? You only use one set of XLRs from the back of the device to the preamp (AP310 XLR in) and another set from preamp (AP310 XLR out) to powered speakers.

Got the DX5 II and there are bad news, the line out setting of Dac or Preamp does not mean anything, turning the volume knob changes both the HPA volume and line out simultaneously.....
only when the device is in LO out only mode does the DAC work, if its in HPA and LO output mode then its forced as a preamp.....

 

[Wolfram98]

Yeah, the device is subpar....
By switching user Config 1 and 2(C1 and C2) buttons on the remote it disconnects from PC for a moment, and Foobar2000 immediately throws errors.
And i would have preferred if i could just blindly press C1 and know that HPA output is on with a specific PEQ, or C2 with its own PEQ for LO output. but alas the experience is not good, i guess i will need to look at the device and see what output i selected.

 

[Chagall]

Ask people in the DX5 II thread, they are very active.