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Confused Newbie

Nodean

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I apologize in advance for length of my post. I just found the site and it appears I may regret my purchase of the Triangle Boreas 3's. I relied on the you tube influencers in making the purchase. My goal is to start my audiophile journey with a set up in my home office. 11X14. I live rural location with poor internet bandwidth and was frustrated with streaming through my computer into a pair of powered Adams TV5 studio monitors. I bought a CD player Onkyo C-7030 and received an Audio-Technica LP60X turntable as a gift. So i bought some speaker stands and ordered the Borea's they haven't arrived yet ($300). I had previously put the turntable or cd player on my desk and plugged into the unbalanced rca's on the back of the Adams. Not convenient. So I thought with an integrated amp or stereo receiver I could plug both devices in wire up the passive speakers and switch between both sources at my discretion. While I was looking for an amp or receiver Yamaha A-S301/501, Cambridge AXR85/100 among others I came across this site. What a rabbit hole. I can return the Borea's if need be. I have little ones who go to bed early so it's headphones or low volume most of the time. Occasionally on weekends I can turn up the volume somewhat but not like I did in the eighties. I listen to mostly rock/metal/blues some r&b. Should I return the Borea's? Is ther a way with a passive preamp to switch between devices with active studio monitors? Are the adam audio tv5's different from stereo speakers? Was I on the right track and continue my search for an integrated amp/receiver and better passive speakers. Would a really good pair of headphones and a headphone amp/dac be a better choice? Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 

Galliardist

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The Adam is a good place to start... recommended here and you already own it. You also have some sources. Since the Adams have a balanced in, you need a preamp, and an active one is probably better than passive.
You can indeed still use the comp;uter. I don't know what your streaming source was, but Qobuz allows me to download or purchase albums for playback, for example. If you have unreliable internet you can still download and play later, as well as acquiring CDs and LPs.

I'd advise putting the turntable to one side for the moment, unless you also have a reasonable number of LPs, until you have digital the way you want it. That's just because generally LPs are more expensive and fussier. Just because I and many here wouldn't go there at all, doesn't mean you shouldn't but you should know what you are getting into and why.

As for the preamp, you appear to need multiple RCA in and preferably XLR out to the Adams. The Schiit Freya S would be one candidate.
 

JSmith

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Should I return the Borea's?
Possibly... if still able to, as they seem to have some issues;


JSmith
 

Galliardist

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We can simplify further as well. If you are buying CDs, you could get a drive and rip them to your PC, and play from there. No CD player needed. Again, if you have a lot of CDs, the player is a better idea at least to start with as you don't want to spend days at a time ripping. But with ripped CDs and downloads from streaming sites or whereever, you can do whatever you want from your computer and not need either source. Then, a separate DAC/pre will connect you to the Adams.

I should also have said, yes I would cancel the other speakers. Unless you dislike the sound of the Adams.

Once you get to the stage where you can play music reasonably - by any of the options available - you can start to think about how you want your system to look in the future (note I am not using the word "upgrade").
 

Tom C

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I would agree with what’s said above.
You have a turn table, CD player and powered speakers. The simplest, easiest and cheapest thing to do is to return the Boreas and get a passive A/B switch.
This will work, and give you a volume control:
Douk.

This is a similar alternative, but fewer inputs:
Schiit Sys

There are other ways, but they cost more, and may not work any better for you, depending on your needs. From your description, the above will serve just fine.
 

Galliardist

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I have little ones who go to bed early so it's headphones or low volume most of the time.
If you're looking for a headphone out as well, the suggestions we've made for preamp, passive or active, may not work for you and a headphone amp with suitable inputs and a pre out may be a better bet for you, if maybe more expensive.

I just use headphones direct from my PC late at night for the most part and use that time to explore different music from streaming. With a family, you should use speakers in a system somewhere so that you can share listening to music with the kids: even if you don't like everything they come up with, you'll find out when the time comes and they listen on their own and decide to hate your stuff. (You'll be surprised to find out that they come back to what you play now, later in life. I still listen to big band music as my mum showed me, and my older sister was a huge influence on what I listen to today as well).
 
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Nodean

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The Adam is a good place to start... recommended here and you already own it. You also have some sources. Since the Adams have a balanced in, you need a preamp, and an active one is probably better than passive.
You can indeed still use the comp;uter. I don't know what your streaming source was, but Qobuz allows me to download or purchase albums for playback, for example. If you have unreliable internet you can still download and play later, as well as acquiring CDs and LPs.

I'd advise putting the turntable to one side for the moment, unless you also have a reasonable number of LPs, until you have digital the way you want it. That's just because generally LPs are more expensive and fussier. Just because I and many here wouldn't go there at all, doesn't mean you shouldn't but you should know what you are getting into and why.

As for the preamp, you appear to need multiple RCA in and preferably XLR out to the Adams. The Schiit Freya S would be one candidate.
Thank you for the response. I have used Both Tidal, Spotify and Apple Music. I think the TV5's sound fine but I am not a refined listener hence my desire to explore and develop. I own one LP and about 20 cd's. I wanted to revisit LP's primarily for nostalgia and to introduce the kids to them. I listen to cd's on my commute but streaming works there as well I plug my phone into the aux jack on my truck stereo. I have balanced xlr's running from the Adam's to a Behringer audo interface right now. I use it to plug headphones into and to control volume. I don't know how good the dac is ain a 7 year old $60 audio interface. I use the Adam's as near-field monitors on my desk. I had planned on putting the Borea's on the stands I purchases along the far wall about 5 - 6 feet apart toed in. I was trying to move away from the desk when listening since I spend most days working from the desk. I can't return the speaker stands ($150) but I can return the Borea's I would be on the hook for return shipping across the country so It would cost me around $80 to return the $300 speakers. The picture is from what I would consider my listening position. That wall is about 11 feet wide and I would sit about 7-8 feet away. Length of the room is 14 feet. My desk sits at a 45 degree angle to the cabinet.

IMG_2409.jpgIMG_2410.jpg
 
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Nodean

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We can simplify further as well. If you are buying CDs, you could get a drive and rip them to your PC, and play from there. No CD player needed. Again, if you have a lot of CDs, the player is a better idea at least to start with as you don't want to spend days at a time ripping. But with ripped CDs and downloads from streaming sites or wherever, you can do whatever you want from your computer and not need either source. Then, a separate DAC/pre will connect you to the Adams.

I should also have said, yes I would cancel the other speakers. Unless you dislike the sound of the Adams.

Once you get to the stage where you can play music reasonably - by any of the options available - you can start to think about how you want your system to look in the future (note I am not using the word "upgrade").
I assume this means leaving the near field monitoring set up at my desk and replacing my inexpensive audio interface with a good dac pre/headphone amp? I could return the Borea's and the cd player. I only have 20 cd's. I assumed sitting close to the adams on my desk or using headphones would be inferior to quality passive speakers and an amp/cd player in a better listening position. Speakers 6 feet aprt at ear level toed in. I guess I could always put the turntable on my desk attached to the unbalanced rca's on the adam's if I felt like pulling out a record.
 

Galliardist

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Thank you for the response. I have used Both Tidal, Spotify and Apple Music. I think the TV5's sound fine but I am not a refined listener hence my desire to explore and develop. I own one LP and about 20 cd's. I wanted to revisit LP's primarily for nostalgia and to introduce the kids to them. I listen to cd's on my commute but streaming works there as well I plug my phone into the aux jack on my truck stereo. I have balanced xlr's running from the Adam's to a Behringer audo interface right now. I use it to plug headphones into and to control volume. I don't know how good the dac is ain a 7 year old $60 audio interface. I use the Adam's as near-field monitors on my desk. I had planned on putting the Borea's on the stands I purchases along the far wall about 5 - 6 feet apart toed in. I was trying to move away from the desk when listening since I spend most days working from the desk. I can't return the speaker stands ($150) but I can return the Borea's I would be on the hook for return shipping across the country so It would cost me around $80 to return the $300 speakers. The picture is from what I would consider my listening position. That wall is about 11 feet wide and I would sit about 7-8 feet away. Length of the room is 14 feet. My desk sits at a 45 degree angle to the cabinet.

View attachment 257747View attachment 257748
OK. I was thinking that if you hadn't received the Boreas you may have been able to cancel before they were sent and avoid costs. It's a big hit on the price - you may be able to sell them with a smaller loss than that return fee. Keeping them for a while might be better in that case, at the very least as a learning experience - and then something ike an integrated amp would follow.

Without the full details we can't say too much about the Behringer, it may be perfectly good enough. The state of the art has moved on, but our ears haven't! Price isn't necessarily an indicator of quality at the DAC level. You may want to move on in time, but unless things sound bad why worry at this point?

Is that an amp of some kind I can see in your picture? You can use an AVR as a stereo amp as well if it's that. It may not be great with hard to drive speakers but the Boreas, while a bit insensitive, don't look too bad.

Re the turntable, while nostalgia is fine, don't encourage your kids into an expensive habit for the sake of it or indeed for nostalgia. You wouldn't send them to school with a slide rule or start them on jousting these days?
 
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Nodean

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I would agree with what’s said above.
You have a turn table, CD player and powered speakers. The simplest, easiest and cheapest thing to do is to return the Boreas and get a passive A/B switch.
This will work, and give you a volume control:
Douk.

This is a similar alternative, but fewer inputs:
Schiit Sys

There are other ways, but they cost more, and may not work any better for you, depending on your needs. From your description, the above will serve just fine.
I assume this means leaving the near field monitoring set up at my desk and replacing my inexpensive audio interface with a good dac pre/headphone amp? I could return the Borea's and the cd player. I only have 20 cd's. I assumed sitting close to the adams on my desk or using headphones would be inferior to quality passive speakers and an amp/cd player in a better listening position. Speakers 6 feet aprt at ear level toed in. I guess I could always put the turntable on my desk attached to the unbalanced rca's on the adam's if I felt like pulling out a record.
 
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Nodean

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OK. I was thinking that if you hadn't received the Boreas you may have been able to cancel before they were sent. It's a big hit on the price - you may be able to sell them with a smaller loss than that return fee. Keeping them for a while might be better in that case, at the very least as a learning experience - and then something ike an integrated amp would follow.

Without the full details we can't say too much about the Behringer, it may be fine.
If I bought a better dac/headphone amp for the desk replacing the Behringer would that be superior sound to say a Yamaha A-S301/501 with the Borea's?
 
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Nodean

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I would agree with what’s said above.
You have a turn table, CD player and powered speakers. The simplest, easiest and cheapest thing to do is to return the Boreas and get a passive A/B switch.
This will work, and give you a volume control:
Douk.

This is a similar alternative, but fewer inputs:
Schiit Sys

There are other ways, but they cost more, and may not work any better for you, depending on your needs. From your description, the above will serve just fine.
I could put the Adam's on the stands and plug both the cd player and turntable into the a/b switch? My goal was to move away from the desk when listening to the music assuming 6 or so feet away with speakers poperly placed would provide superior sound. The Adams are on my desk now.

IMG_2410.jpgIMG_2409.jpg
 
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Nodean

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OK. I was thinking that if you hadn't received the Boreas you may have been able to cancel before they were sent and avoid costs. It's a big hit on the price - you may be able to sell them with a smaller loss than that return fee. Keeping them for a while might be better in that case, at the very least as a learning experience - and then something ike an integrated amp would follow.

Without the full details we can't say too much about the Behringer, it may be perfectly good enough. The state of the art has moved on, but our ears haven't! Price isn't necessarily an indicator of quality at the DAC level. You may want to move on in time, but unless things sound bad why worry at this point?

Is that an amp of some kind I can see in your picture? You can use an AVR as a stereo amp as well if it's that. It may not be great with hard to drive speakers but the Boreas, while a bit insensitive, don't look too bad.

Re the turntable, while nostalgia is fine, don't encourage your kids into an expensive habit for the sake of it or indeed for nostalgia. You wouldn't send them to school with a slide rule or start them on jousting these days?
It's an older Yamaha avr an rxv-375. I assumed it would be inferior to an integrated amp. Good point ( turntable).
 
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Nodean

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It's an older Yamaha avr an rxv-375. I assumed it would be inferior to an integrated amp. Good point ( turntable).
I could try to sell the Boreas and stands. I would likely take a loss and just stay at my desk. Listening position doesn't change the quality of sound? avr/speakers/cd player 6 feet away long axis of the room vs right up to the speakers in a near field setting. Maybe headphone amp/dac and good headphones at the desk is the answer?
 
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Nodean

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I would agree with what’s said above.
You have a turn table, CD player and powered speakers. The simplest, easiest and cheapest thing to do is to return the Boreas and get a passive A/B switch.
This will work, and give you a volume control:
Douk.

This is a similar alternative, but fewer inputs:
Schiit Sys

There are other ways, but they cost more, and may not work any better for you, depending on your needs. From your description, the above will serve just fine.
Thanks for the reply. So I could plug the rca’s from the cd player and turntable into this run an rca from it to each unbalanced rca input on the back of the active monitors and switch between the two?
 

Tom C

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Thanks for the reply. So I could plug the rca’s from the cd player and turntable into this run an rca from it to each unbalanced rca input on the back of the active monitors and switch between the two?
Yes, that’s it. It just makes switching between the two a little more convenient, instead having to get at the backs of things to plug and unplug cables when you want to change listening from one component to another.
I understand a little better now. The overall situation, as I see it, is that we don’t know how good or bad something compares to another something until we measure. Companies are uneven in the quality of the specifications they publish. Some are conservative and underestimate, and some are pretty spot on, but many exaggerate and are not accurate. So on the whole, I would not rely on a company’s marketing department only, in order to make a purchase decision. An online reviewer can make money from ad revenues on his site, or receives free equipment or free use of equipment for an extended period. I would view that person, at least in most cases, as an extension of the company’s marketing department, since he is receiving compensation for his review, even if indirect. Which means independent, reliable measurements on gear is extremely valuable in the selection process.
So, unless we have measurements on the particular unit in question, it’s very hard to judge quality. Price is known to be very poorly correlated with sound quality. It is still possible to buy a set of top measuring ear buds for $50 or even less. There are DAC’s tested here that sell for $200 or less, where it is not physically possible for the human ear to distinguish from perfection (where perfection is thought of as zero distortion and a perfectly flat frequency response).
When you’re just starting out, you‘re not sure who to believe because there are so many voices out there, many of them quite credible sounding. So you go by personal experience, and try to tie what you’re reading back to some kind of reality check. That’s where the measurements are key. Have you ever taken a class at school and thought you were doing well, but your grade was not quite as good as you were expecting? Or your job review? Or you tried to go on a diet, and felt like you were starving, but the bathroom scale told a different story? The measurements help us get our perceptions in line with reality. The numbers don’t lie. A person can lie about the numbers, but the numbers don’t lie.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but Amir’s review of your Adam speakers can be found here: Adam T5V . Their performance is exemplary. It will be very difficult to improve on. There is no reason to think a passive speaker plus amp or receiver will sound better. Louder, maybe, but you’d have to spend significantly more to get that. We can say for sure that you can spend significantly more, and not get louder or better.
This is not to say that improvements are not possible. Improvements are possible, but are not what you read from press agents trying reach into your piggy bank. Look for lower bass extension (your Adams decrease their output below 70Hz, but your ears don’t stop detecting until below 20 Hz), higher bass output (look up Fletcher-Munson if you haven’t already), flatter frequency response (Amir included recommendations for EQ in his review, that are simple and few in number), and lower distortion. For better bass extension and higher bass output, get a subwoofer or two. You’ll need a crossover of some kind, too.
For flatter frequency response, you’ll need EQ software. You can but something like a miniDSP, which is an extra box that you plug into your system, or use your PC. Each approach has its advantages and disadvantages, but you already have a PC, and the software can be free. To use it, you’ll need to rip your CD’s to the PC hard drive and play from there, or you could get a DAC that accepts the digital signal from your CD player by optical or RCA. I like this solution the best, because you could get a DAC that has a volume control with remote, a good quality headphone output, and also accepts usb, so that would be your solution for streaming services. To use all three of Tidal, Spotify and Apple Music is the challenge, but an iPhone, iPad or Mac mini would give all three. Or maybe Windows 11. Windows 10 can be used for Apple Music, but you won’t get lossless streaming. There are other ways to get to the same place, but I see these options as being the most straightforward.
Distortion and output are related. Turn any system loud enough, and you’ll get distortion. Turn anything down low enough, and audible distortion vanishes, unless the unit is really poor. Noise is an additional consideration, but usually not a problem, and when it is a problem, is usually less of a problem as volume increases. For the Adam T5V, at 86dB output, distortion is under reasonable control at 100Hz and above. Here is where a subwoofer really helps, because they can play with low distortion in this region and below, or at least lower distortion, or relatively low distortion, and significantly higher output. At 96dB output, the Adams are starting to complain, as most speaker systems will. So, if your Adams can play as loud as you like now, then you’re good. I would only look for something different if you want to play even louder but still cleanly, and to do so you are getting into something more expensive and harder to find, so tread carefully. And expect to take your time.
I’m running out of time, so I won’t discuss speaker stands, speaker placement, and room treatments. These things work together, and can make a big difference, and again require time and some learning effort to get a handle on. To get the most out of this site will take time and effort on your part to sift through the material and get yourself up to speed. But well worth the effort, as the benefit is large, and the primary beneficiary is you.
 
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Nodean

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Thank you so much for the response. Very helpful and the analogies made sense. Off the top of my head I wont be playing the music very loud. What is a crossover? (DAC that accepts the digital signal from your CD player by optical or RCA.) Recommendations? Where would I plug a subwoofer into active monitors?
 

sarumbear

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I relied on the you tube influencers in making the purchase. My goal is to start my audiophile journey with a set up in my home office. 11X14. I live rural location with poor internet bandwidth and was frustrated with streaming …
As far as I know all music streaming apps offer downloading for off-line playback. As you have enough bandwidth to stream video you should be able to download tracks. Why go to the CD route then?
 
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Nodean

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Mistakenly thought the quality would be better and I was trying for a different environment than sitting at the desk.
 

Tom C

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Oh, OK, you’d like to sit further back than when at your desk. Like when the kids have been put to bed, and dad finally gets a chance to relax for a few minutes. Dad’s own little man cave.
I think we’re in luck here. The NRC uses an anechoic chamber to measure, which is considered to be an extremely high quality method. Results can be found here:

Canada NRC Triangle Borea3

Things look pretty good, but your Adams are better. Spending time comparing measurements between the two would be instructive. It will also be interesting to see which ones sound better to your ears in your room.
One thing you’ll have to worry about is whether or not you’re disturbing your spouse or children. If that becomes a problem, headphones might work the best.
If you have the space, you have the building blocks for a dual system. Connect the Boreas to your AVR. You could have one set of speakers at your desk, and the other on stands directed toward your easy chair. Which you put where is up to you. If you’re like most of us, you’ll try one configuration for a while, then change it up for a while, and finally settle on the one you prefer.
BTW, the Boreas are nice looking, and you got them at a great price! They actually measure pretty well, although as I said, the Adams are better. This is a classic tradeoff: form vs function.
If you get subwoofers at some point, you need to know that the sound they produce carries to other rooms the most. So late night listening doesn’t work so good, unless your room is room is super well isolated, or you listen at low volumes. A crossover lets you set the frequency where the subwoofer hands off to the main speaker. Below the crossover frequency, the subwoofer plays. And above the crossover frequency, the main speakers play. The crossover is the traffic cop that keeps things flowing in orderly fashion.
Sometimes a crossover is built into the subwoofer, but not always. When it is, it can be one of the easier ways to integrate a sub into your system. If your sub doesn’t have one, you can use your PC to do it, but then you’ll need two DAC’s per channel, so total of 4 channels for stereo. There are several other ways to get to the same place. If you start poking around on this forum, you’ll find multiple threads where people are discussing the best ways to solve this very problem.
 
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