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Confused about volume

DonH56

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This thread might help you explore the gain chain though is sort of jumping in the lake instead of getting your feet wet: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...opagate-through-my-system.33358/#post-1165118

Reducing the volume in a purely digital sense, i.e. reducing the amplitude of the digital word, does reduce the output SNR (not resolution in the sense of the quantization level, but the effective number of bits is reduced). That is rarely a concern given the number of bits DACs have these days and is no different than what happens when the digital input signal itself is smaller ("quieter"). The noise floor set by quantization and analog noise does not usually change. SNR will reduce by about 6 dB for every bit (factor of two) reduction in the digital volume level. Given a dynamic range that often exceeds 100~120 dB, and a practical system dynamic range of maybe 80 dB, you can give up a lot without being able to notice anything.

Sticking a volume control in the analog path reduces both signal and noise so, if the volume control adds no noise or distortion of its own, then there is no net effect on resolution (noise, distortion, SINAD) after the volume control. The smaller signal into the power amp means its output noise is now a larger part of the output relative to the signal, so you do lose some, but again unless the amp's noise floor is too high (generally causing "hiss"), this is a non-issue. A lower signal level will have lower distortion.

The rule of thumb is to set the amp's volume at max and see if there is hiss at your normal preamp volume. If not, and if the preamp's volume range is sufficient for your needs (e.g. not sitting at almost no output so you do not have room to "turn it down"), then just use the preamp's volume control. If there is too much hiss, turn down the amp's volume control and see if the hiss is reduced. If so, then it is mostly from the preamp (or source), and you can reduce it by leaving the amp's volume turned down a bit and then again use the preamp's volume control to adjust your levels.
 
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Alot of audiophiles also prefer to send their audio content at its native bitrate to an external DAC (where the upsampling and D-to-A conversion is presumably better), which means that the sound source may be limited to only 16-bits, or possibly even less in some cases. Which can presumably also make it more vulnerable to both noise and quantization, if the volume is reduced at that stage.

Okay try to picture what I said in the first place ...
You have two devices ... A and B .... what do you do when the output from A is overdriving the input of B ?

You turn down the output from A ... that is all I said!

If you don't turn down A then the distortion it causes in B will propagate through the entire signal chain.

Personally I don't care how you manage your system. I prefer, as I said, to manipulate the volume where it's convenient. I have a volume control on my amplifier --on the far side of the room-- and I have the usual 3 volume buttons on my wireless keyboard which sits 2 feet away ... which one should I use? Should I bounce up and down like a rabbit to adjust the amplifier during a movie ... or, maybe, just reach out and tap the buttons without missing anything?

Seriously, man .... much ado over nothing.
 

ADU

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Personally I don't care how you manage your system.

That is apparent. ;)

I (genuinely) appreciated hearing some of your thoughts though on this, Douglas. And hope my remarks didn't put you off too much. Because that was not my intent.
 
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That is apparent. ;)

I (genuinely) appreciated hearing some of your thoughts though on this, Douglas. And hope my remarks didn't put you off too much. Because that was not my intent.

I love a good discussion but seldom in such overwhelming volumes.
To give away some personal stuff ... I'm a technician with about 40 years in electronics. During that time I've designed a thing or three. Even have a couple of patents with my name on them (although owned by my past employer). I believe in the old school principles "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", "Keep it Simple, Stupid", "The easiest way is most often the best way" and so on. So when I get into system setup and layout I always look at what is most convenient for the operator. Especially I never put the emergency shutdown across the hall, under the sink... If you get my drift.

Hence my suggestion that our friend control the volume from the smartphone in his hand instead of the amplifier in the den...
 
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ADU

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ADU

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I love a good discussion but seldom in such overwhelming volumes.
To give away some personal stuff ... I'm a technician with about 40 years in electronics. During that time I've designed a thing or three. Even have a couple of patents with my name on them (although owned by my past employer). I believe in the old school principles "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", "Keep it Simple, Stupid", "The easiest way is most often the best way" and so on. So when I get into system setup and layout I always look at what is most convenient for the operator. Especially I never put the emergency shutdown across the hall, under the sink... If you get my drift.

Hence my suggestion that our friend control the volume from the smartphone in his hand instead of the amplifier in the den...

Fwiw, the above is one of the reasons I was interested in hearing your opinions on some of this.

Imo, it never hurts to get a few different perspectives on these things. Especially if they are well-informed, and based on experience with some different kinds of gear.
 
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Fwiw, the above is one of the reasons I was interested in hearing your opinions on some of this.

I'm flattered. Thank you.

Imo, it never hurts to get a few different perspectives on these things. Especially if they are well-informed, and/or based on experience with some different kinds of gear.

FWIW ... my comments will usually be more practical than theoretical. Of course I have a grounding in theory and repair but by and large what people need is the "how to..." sort of advice.

My "story" is here....
 

ADU

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My "story" is here....

Thanks for this, Douglas. Always interesting to learn a little about the background of some of the members here. And I'm sure there are others who came to this hobby along very similar paths.

My interest in the subject of headphones and audio has mostly come out of a desire and need for better accuracy and precision in what I'm listening to. For both music listening, and eventually I hope some home video production. I've spent quite a bit of time in the entertainment field, and am now gettin pretty old to be starting up new businesses and endeavors though. So a bit unsure exactly where my path may end up going at this point.

In addition to listening to chalga, kpop and reggaeton though, I also like making funny drawings. So maybe I'll just do that. :)
 
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