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Computer Audiophiles Are Anti-Computer

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
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uk, taunton
Sure & nobody is suggesting otherwise - as we all do, he is trying to improve his sound in the best way he sees fit. What I'm pointing out is his dismissal of other valid improvements.
Nope, I don't misunderstand what he said - your attempts to excuse it are part of the validation system I'm talking about
I recognise the need everyone has for self-validation - didn't I just say that was what the members here are looking for? What I find interesting is the deep insecurity demonstrated.
that's your opinion & you're entitled to express it as I presume I'm entitled to express mine?
Of course you are, it's fight club so all nonsense is permitted:D

I am not making excuses for Michael, you have miss interpreted his post. That's not to say if you had recognise his meaning you would agree with each other. He basically was humouring you and trying to be polite, he won't waste his time engaging with you John , his post told you that in a polite way. You missed that! It's ok though as it was subtle 'social' behaviour, it was easily missed. So yes you have fundamentally miss understood what was being communicated. You would be well served accepting that rather than continuing to deny and thusly condemn your own argument to the bin of irrelevancy.

Really what right have you to speculate on the psychological security of our members? You repeatedly accuse the membership as having some kind of psychological weakness just because they don't agree with you!

Think about that John!

You need to fraternise but ultimately make a big fuss to reject your perception of 'group' is obvious, the motivations for this behaviour I chose not to speculate on. However it's rather fatiguing, not for me but for the members.

I really don't mind, you seem intelligent to me and fairly fun to be honest. I think your only here to 'poke' the members and amuse yourself. Your used to providing yourself with amusement... You miss subtle social prompts... Umm ;)
 

John Kenny

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
568
Likes
18
John - it is your hypothesis that the measurements taken here do not reveal what is audible. So, why do you place the necessity of proof of what you believe on others in this thread? I think you need to do more homework yourself in attempting to prove your belief. Why just sit back demanding that from others here who might have a different belief?
I believe it's generally accepted that current audio measurements do not delimit what we hear & do not tell us how something sounds. As I said the scientific mind would recognise the limits of their measurements but that is not evident here. So is this forum misnamed & science should be taken out of it's name?

I'm not demanding anything from others - I'm pointing out some facts which seem to be unpalatable to many here.

It is quite clear that you abhor measurements of any kind and consider them valueless. Fine, you are entitled to believe that. But, your weaving and bobbing, your debating society style, your twisting of others words and intent is quite shallow in attempting to defend your belief.
I abhor the type of measurements that pretend to be a full characterisation of a device - the pseudo-science mindset that is then used to push an agenda. I do desire a more honest approach to the whole topic of audio science & would love to see a real desire to find truth in audio.

And, what are your proofs, exactly, for the audibility of differences that are not in the measurements? There are far more objective methods for that than your own anecdotal testimonials.
I'm secure in what I hear & when appropriate measurements are devised, I have no doubt that I will be confirmed in my hearing - I don't have a particular desire or need to try to prove anything to those who are negatively biased - they operate on a belief system beyond "proof". I could send a battery powered Regen out but my experience is that even though there is a glaringly obvious & audible improvement in any system it is used in, the strength of the negative bias (& consequent lack of interest) of most here is enough to negate any such audible difference (your 5M USB cable for instance will likely kill any chance of hearing audible differences)

So I ask again, has anybody here got an example of something audible in audio that they don't have current measurements for?
 

PaulyT

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
34
Likes
22
Location
Baltimore
no answers from the rest of the membership.

Nah, it's more fun just to watch.

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
 

John Kenny

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Of course you are, it's fight club so all nonsense is permitted:D

I am not making excuses for Michael, you have miss interpreted his post. That's not to say if you had recognise his meaning you would agree with each other. He basically was humouring you and trying to be polite, he won't waste his time engaging with you John , his post told you that in a polite way. You missed that! It's ok though as it was subtle 'social' behaviour, it was easily missed. So yes you have fundamentally miss understood what was being communicated. You would be well served accepting that rather than continuing to deny and thusly condemn your own argument to the bin of irrelevancy.
Your attempts to defend his post have taken a circuitous journey before arriving at this excuse"He basically was humouring you and trying to be polite"

Really what right have you to speculate on the psychological security of our members? You repeatedly accuse the membership as having some kind of psychological weakness just because they don't agree with you!

Think about that John!
You consider insecurity a "psychological weakness" - I don't, we all live with it - it's life. What I find an aberration is the need to find some validation in simplistic measurements - hence the popularity of Archimago's blog

You need to fraternise but ultimately make a big fuss to reject your perception of 'group' is obvious, the motivations for this behaviour I chose not to speculate on. However it's rather fatiguing, not for me but for the members.

I really don't mind, you seem intelligent to me and fairly fun to be honest. I think your only here to 'poke' the members and amuse yourself. Your used to providing yourself with amusement... You miss subtle social prompts... Umm ;)
Huh??
 

Thomas savage

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John you really need to question the validity of what you hear, or imagine. That's what hearing is! It's a imagining of data send by the ears but build by the mind into what you hear.

The brain is a factor and it's not a constant when listening to hifi. There are ' unknown ' contributing factors at any moment in time that totally undermine your idea of secured listening impressions.

What you want to do is take this ' unreliable ' information and build a known out of it by using it in a abstract way. Abstract from the recognition of its inconsistency.

There in lays the problem.
 

John Kenny

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John you really need to question the validity of what you hear, or imagine. That's what hearing is! It's a imagining of data send by the ears but build by the mind into what you hear.
You're really trying to tell me what hearing is? I did start a thread on Auditory Scene Analysis - you need to live up to your title of the Watchman

The brain is a factor and it's not a constant when listening to hifi.
Tell that to O'Toole who you disagree with then because he says & I agree with him that we all coalesce towards the same sound preference.
There are ' unknown ' contributing factors at any moment in time that totally undermine your idea of secured listening impressions.

What you want to do is take this ' unreliable ' information and build a known out of it by using it in a abstract way. Abstract from the recognition of its inconsistency.

There in lays the problem.
Is this your long-winded way of trying to say that we have biases?
 

Thomas savage

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You're really trying to tell me what hearing is? I did start a thread on Auditory Scene Analysis - you need to live up to your title of the Watchman

Tell that to O'Toole who you disagree with then because he says & I agree with him that we all coalesce towards the same sound preference. Is this your long-winded way of trying to say that we have biases?
No you yet again miss understood.

Can I be bothered to explain?? No.


Carry on ' trusting' your ears and trying to make new science to explain what you hear.

It's nothing to do with what toole thinks, and yes I did read though your ASA thread.

I have no problem with the subject, but you made no attempts to engage others and interpret the information in a the spirit of sharing and communication.

Really just putting in links to long winded mystically technical writings is not that great tbh John. Your ment to show understanding by interpretation. ...

To quote newt from aliens..,

It won't make any difference.
 

amirm

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Watched her interview, interesting path. I love this chick.
You and the other million electronic hobbyist :D. They worship her like a hero, in their female starved world. :D
 

amirm

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Hilarious, Amir that you should level Ray's comment at me when you are the very one who takes a couple of measurements & declares premature conclusions based on these limited & simplistic measurements.

When you have shown the correlation between your simple measurements & audibility in these devices such as the Regen or the Intona, then your measurements might have some credibility . As it stands your hand-waving exercises consist of lots of bluff & bluster but very little of meaningful substance as regards the audibility of these devices.

I know from my own experiments & experience that both the Regen & Intona make audible differences but can be improved further by attending to the power supply & I'm interested in any measurements which uncover the underlying mechanisms of these audible effects. Unfortunately, that is not your motivation - you are more interested in telling us how good your equipment is.

Someday you will look back at this & see your blindness in all of this but that day has yet to come
The only blindness I see is folks like you jumping up and down, objecting to having more data on a product than less.

As to your own experiences they are not worth the bits it takes to display them unless you define and document the protocol so that we know they are real and transferrable to other humans.

I am also confident of my sources that say you are working on bringing out a product of your own in this category so please excuse me if I don't see your motivation as being pure.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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...
As I said the scientific mind would recognise the limits of their measurements but that is not evident here. So is this forum misnamed & science should be taken out of it's name?

I'm not demanding anything from others - I'm pointing out some facts which seem to be unpalatable to many here.

I abhor the type of measurements that pretend to be a full characterisation of a device - the pseudo-science mindset that is then used to push an agenda. I do desire a more honest approach to the whole topic of audio science & would love to see a real desire to find truth in audio.

I'm secure in what I hear & when appropriate measurements are devised, I have no doubt that I will be confirmed in my hearing - I don't have a particular desire or need to try to prove anything to those who are negatively biased - they operate on a belief system beyond "proof".
...

(your 5M USB cable for instance will likely kill any chance of hearing audible differences)

The old "name change" argument, again. I think you, falsely for argumentative purposes only, are attempting to read something into that rubric that is not there in anyone else's mind. Somehow, I doubt your sincerity on removing the word "Science" from the forum title would fix everything for you. You would just try a different tack.

Facts? Where are your proofs about facts? You want your beliefs to be based on fact but you have offered no objective basis. I accept little that you say as factual.

Honest truth? Pushing an agenda? John, take a good look at yourself.

You are "secure in what you hear". The problem is no one else is secure in what you claim you hear, nor in the testimony of legions of other audiophiles under unknown, sighted, non-bias controlled listening. Your opinion is essentially worthless to anyone else as are the easily obtained positive user anecdotes all over the web about almost anything. So, to you, it is simple: golden ears +1 vs. those seeking a deeper truth -1.

I am quite happy with my 5 meter USB cable. Using your golden ear methods, it sounds indistinguishable to me from a short USB cable via the output from my DAC. Perhaps your own DACs are not as robustly designed. But, if you have some objective facts, not just theoretical mambo jumbo, to the contrary, I would welcome a look at it.
 

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The only blindness I see is folks like you jumping up and down, objecting to having more data on a product than less.

As to your own experiences they are not worth the bits it takes to display them unless you define and document the protocol so that we know they are real and transferrable to other humans.
I'll let other humans be the judge of their transferability rather than a set of measurements

I am also confident of my sources that say you are working on bringing out a product of your own in this category so please excuse me if I don't see your motivation as being pure.
Ohhh, "your sources" - your industry spies - dear oh dear - that you should sink so low & be so bereft of valid points to make!!
 

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I'll let other humans be the judge of their transferability rather than a set of measurements

Ohhh, "your sources" - your industry spies - dear oh dear - that you should sink so low & be so bereft of valid points to make!!
well i have the recpits from your bins.. Your definitely building something to sell... :D
 

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The old "name change" argument, again. I think you, falsely for argumentative purposes only, are attempting to read something into that rubric that is not there in anyone else's mind. Somehow, I doubt your sincerity on removing the word "Science" from the forum title would fix everything for you. You would just try a different tack.
No, it wouldn't change anything for me - I already recognise it as a "measurements" forum, not truly a science forum - it might make others take note, however but I doubt it.

Facts? Where are your proofs about facts? You want your beliefs to be based on fact but you have offered no objective basis. I accept little that you say as factual.
I know you do & there's no point in offering any to you

Honest truth? Pushing an agenda? John, take a good look at yourself.
yes I have the opposite agenda to you guys - I want to get at the truth & would love to see measurements that hel to tease this out. I'm very happy & willing to help in any way I can towards this goal but I don't see any desire here to investigate what are difficult issues. We had one pretend thread on Noise Floor Modulation which represents the motivations of the members here - not an attempt to find the truth, just another of the many pretenses at measurement.

You are "secure in what you hear". The problem is no one else is secure in what you claim you hear, nor in the testimony of legions of other audiophiles under unknown, sighted, non-bias controlled listening. Your opinion is essentially worthless to anyone else as are the easily obtained positive user anecdotes all over the web about almost anything. So, to you, it is simple: golden ears +1 vs. those seeking a deeper truth -1.
Don't disappoint - trot out the usual bit about the unicorn, now - it's the usual next line in that bible story!

I am quite happy with my 5 meter USB cable. Using your golden ear methods, it sounds indistinguishable to me from a short USB cable via the output from my DAC. Perhaps your own DACs are not as robustly designed. But, if you have some objective facts, not just theoretical mambo jumbo, to the contrary, I would welcome a look at it.
Sure your happy - you make my point - I don't need to say anything else.
 

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well i have the recpits from your bins.. Your definitely building something to sell... :D
Doh! And I told my wife to wipe those "recpits" after she shaved her "armpits" Were you looking through the bathroom window, you cad? :p
 
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Ohhh, "your sources" - your industry spies - dear oh dear - that you should sink so low & be so bereft of valid points to make!!
Members need to know if someone has commercial interest in a product category. You would be the one sinking low to have such interest but not be open and transparent about it.
 

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Members need to know if someone has commercial interest in a product category. You would be the one sinking low to have such interest but not be open and transparent about it.
Oh, so I'm launching a Microrendu, am I, Amir or something else? And what's your evidence? What have your "sources" told you?

Hey, I'll happily put my website & commercial interest in my sig, if you like?
 

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Doh! And I told my wife to wipe those "recpits" after she shaved her "armpits" Were you looking through the bathroom window, you cad? :p

She was shaving her armpits in eager anticipation, having spotted me.... Surveilling. :D

All insecure regimes have tyrannical overzealous security services;)
 

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Hmm, I don't consider those who are looking for actual audible differences as dunderheads - those people do not inhabit this forum, (bar a few) - this forum is a self-help club of like-minded, insecure individuals who want to assure one another that they are right.

Since this is Fight Club, I'll swing one:

I'm a bit sleepy right now, having just entered the first stages of 'awake', but that "self-help club of like-minded, insecure individuals who want to assure one another they are right" part describes pretty well, for me, the other side of the fence:


A: My Dealer advised me Tuesday to think about getting a ZooDad to improve my system's panache.
B: They're great!
C: I Love them. Light years ahead.

A: They're pretty expensive, don't you think?
D: I have one, night and day! Panache up the wazoo!
E: You won't regret it.

A: How does it work?
B: You just hook it up!
D: Read the instructions.
F: D's an idiot. Your Authorized Dealer will install and tune it for you.

A: No, I mean, how does it work?
-crickets-

(later that week)
C: There's a demo on YouTube now.
H: I was there, my meetings in Dubai and Johannesburg were cancelled.
G: It's unmeasurable... Trust me...
D: What he said, +1...
E: I appreciate a proper explanation, thanks, guys.
F: I wish I could have attended the demo at the show. That guy knew his stuff...

J: I had one, but I moved on to the Obvious Delictus III and never looked back. The consensus is the ZooDad overemphasizes the panache.
D: Oh wow! I didn't know that had been released. How much do you think I can get on a trade in?
- and so on -
 

John Kenny

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Since this is Fight Club, I'll swing one:

I'm a bit sleepy right now, having just entered the first stages of 'awake', but that "self-help club of like-minded, insecure individuals who want to assure one another they are right" part describes pretty well, for me, the other side of the fence:
Of course it does - everything is interpreted through our own filter - including measurements - Amir thinks his measurements demonstrate something - I don't
 
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