Compression drivers?

[Godataloss]

I run BMS 4592nd midrange drivers on wood tractrix horns. They're quite good at 450hz to 7khz. I suppose my tweeters are compression drivers as well- Fostex t500a MK3s? They're not bad either. Timbrally they seem quite accurate together.

 

[DanielT]

I've noticed the name here (at ASR) but didn't realise. But I'm not a horn guy.

Another who has horns as his precious..

"Let’s start our review with the audio equipment of the star of The Lord of the Rings trilogy. As we can see from the published photos of Elijah Wood, he is a true audiophile and prefers classic solutions like the Cary Audio tube amplifier. However, it is worth noting an unusual speaker – Klipsch La Scala. They are known for their gain sensitivity."

How Celebrities Listen To Music [Audio Equipment & Setup]

We present to your attention a review of the audio systems of famous people who like to enjoy good sound.

downhomedigital.net

 

[FrantzM]

I was lucky enough to get all NINE on B-Stock sale (half price) as well. 3x708 across the front, 6x705 spread around. It's hard to get excited about further upgrades, although a digital processor for less than stupid money might be nice. Haven't convinced myself to get the Trinnov yet...

Trying hard, if you aren’t already, to get to the FHL?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

heaven forefend!

One picks one's battles -- and everything is a work in progress.
Time delay isn't exactly a hard thing to achieve in 2021.

Altec Lansing (and other theater speaker manufacturers) solved the time alignment problem decades ago in a quite brilliant way by using a short horn for the low frequencies. This also had the advantage that across the crossover point, both the HF and LF were being reproduced by horns.

 

[Jim Matthews]

I love there look, i love there build. If i win in a lottery i need two of them, and two 15" subis, thats it, endgame for me.

I built Bill FitzMaurice "Tuba HT" sub with 15" subwoofers. Add a MiniDSP plate amps per channel. No lottery winnings were spent (although I did have to liquidate cherished gear I no longer used).

 

[617]

Compression drivers have always been the best treble transducers abover 1khz or so. Immense dynamics, pattern control, high efficiency. Everything else is a compromise. Having said that, at normal levels, a dome tweeter can be fine.

 

[Duke]

How common are Compression drivers for Hifi speakers, for home use, home hifi that is? I do not see them that often. How is it that? Too expensive? Difficult to design good speakers with?

Compression drivers are not very common in home audio. I've been using them for about sixteen years. The crossover design is often a bit more complex than with a direct-radiator tweeter.

Ime it's hard to do a good inexpensive horn speaker, at least for a small manufacturer who doesn't have good economies of scale.

The horn itself is arguably the more important component, and imo its typically fairly narrow radiation pattern in turn calls for a narrower-pattern midwoofer section than what we normally see. And if the designer chooses to take advantage of the high efficiency of the compression driver, this pushes the enclosure size/bass extension tradeoff in a different direction from current market trends.

What about Compression drivers regarding FR, directivity and distortion?

As with any type of loudspeaker much depends on the specifics. Imo good directivity behavior is the main benefit of a good horn/compression driver combination. Ime audible distortion does not occur until well above normal home audio listening levels with a well-designed horn paired with a compatible compression driver. Good frequency response usually calls for more EQ than is typically the case for direct radiator tweeters, but on the other hand with good directivity behavior when you have fixed the on-axis response, you have simultaneously fixed the off-axis response. Such is not the case for direct-radiator tweeters whose radiation patterns narrow as we go up in frequency.

Here is a relevant white paper written by an expert in the field, Earl Geddes:

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/Philosophy.pdf

 

[flyzipper]

Tossing in JTR as a purveyor of compression drivers in their speakers...

Home Audio — JTR Speakers

www.jtrspeakers.com

 

[DanielT]

Compression drivers are not very common in home audio. I've been using them for about sixteen years. The crossover design is often a bit more complex than with a direct-radiator tweeter.

Ime it's hard to do a good inexpensive horn speaker, at least for a small manufacturer who doesn't have good economies of scale.

The horn itself is arguably the more important component, and imo its typically fairly narrow radiation pattern in turn calls for a narrower-pattern midwoofer section than what we normally see. And if the designer chooses to take advantage of the high efficiency of the compression driver, this pushes the enclosure size/bass extension tradeoff in a different direction from current market trends.



As with any type of loudspeaker much depends on the specifics. Imo good directivity behavior is the main benefit of a good horn/compression driver combination. Ime audible distortion does not occur until well above normal home audio listening levels with a well-designed horn paired with a compatible compression driver. Good frequency response usually calls for more EQ than is typically the case for direct radiator tweeters, but on the other hand with good directivity behavior when you have fixed the on-axis response, you have simultaneously fixed the off-axis response. Such is not the case for direct-radiator tweeters whose radiation patterns narrow as we go up in frequency.

Here is a relevant white paper written by an expert in the field, Earl Geddes:

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/Philosophy.pdf

Thanks for the info, link and your views on this.

Also thanks to everyone else who in this thread shares knowledge and experiences! I find this interesting.Pictures of and / or links to speakers based on this type of drivers, even horn speakers, in general, are fun to see.

It undeniably seems like a challenge. Since you have been doing such you obviously think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

I do not know if it is some kind of male genetics that triggers me on big speakers. Speakers with high sensitivity.Of course it's not something genetic, but something, damn I do not know ..., learned? Or something. Although it is possible to find amps with clean W / Power nowadays - which may be needed to power low-efficiency speakers in a sensible way - at an affordable price there is something with high sensitivity, big speakers.Can't really put my finger on what it is.

Speaking of speaker size. SPL, distortion, details, noise level and so on in relation to small or large speakers. Factors that are passionately mixed into the speaker salad are discussed in this thread:

Your loudspeakers are too small!

I'm convinced my speakers, your speakers and 98% of enthusiasts speakers are too small. Too small not only to provide enough headroom for uncompressed loud dynamic peaks, but too small (and inefficient) to provide micro-dynamics at lower volumes. Increasing amplifier wattage does not solve this...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[DanielT]

Speaking of big ass horns, check it out here. If you are not going to have the basement for something sensible then ... Horn mouth out into the living room.

See # 626 in this thread:

Unusual Speaker Designs

These 11.25 inch tall speaker cabinets are truly "Bookshelf Speakers", but what makes them unusual is that they were designed to place in a bookshelf and blend in with the books already there. They were made by a company called Stanford Advanced Acoustic Technology which was affiliated with...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Duke]

It undeniably seems like a challenge. Since you have been doing such you obviously think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

I was somewhat anti-horn until I heard two excellent horn loudspeaker systems at CES 2001.

At that point in time I was (and still am) a dealer for SoundLab fullrange electrostatic loudspeakers. I believed one of their characteristics which contributed to good sound was that their in-room reflections had virtually the same frequency response as the direct sound, modified only by the room's surfaces.

As I went from room to room at CES I didn't hear anything that I felt was competitive with the SoundLabs, until I listened to Classic Audio horn loudspeakers and Edgarhorns. Both did some things better than the SoundLabs, enough so that I wanted to offer something similar to my customers. To be fair the SoundLabs also did some things better than either of them.

Being a longtime and fairly hardcore amateur speaker builder (wrote two articles for SpeakerBuilder Magazine in the 1980's), my wheels were soon turning. Armed with my appreciation for the superb off-axis response of the SoundLabs, I wanted to do a two-way horn speaker which combined a constant-directivity horn with a large diameter woofer, crossed over at the frequency where the woofer's radiation pattern matched that of the horn. This would result in the reflections having approximately the same frequency response as the direct sound over much of the spectrum. I thought this was an original concept, but later learned that JBL had done it way back in 1980 with their landmark Model 4430 studio monitor.

Anyway, my point is, horn + compression driver could do what I wanted as far as the radiation pattern goes, and there aren't many alternatives if that's a high priority. Other horn speaker designers may have different priorities, but that's the main thing that got me into horns.

 

[Plcamp]

ES-600 Bi-Radial Wood Horn

Custom Built-to-Order Wood Horn ES (Exponential Spiral) flare geometry Price is 'Per Pair' in Canadian Funds Wrap-around horn mouth Precision CNC cut Baltic Birch layered plywood Sanded and finish stained Crossover Design service available (Please contact) Bass Cabinet and Mannequin not...

josephcrowe.com

This example horn with an RCF ND940 looks just great, as good as any speaker of any description that I have seen. There is also a 290 hz version horn with similar results using a coaxial compression driver at his site.

 

[DanielT]

ES-600 Bi-Radial Wood Horn

Custom Built-to-Order Wood Horn ES (Exponential Spiral) flare geometry Price is 'Per Pair' in Canadian Funds Wrap-around horn mouth Precision CNC cut Baltic Birch layered plywood Sanded and finish stained Crossover Design service available (Please contact) Bass Cabinet and Mannequin not...

josephcrowe.com

This example horn with an RCF ND940 looks just great, as good as any speaker of any description that I have seen. There is also a 290 hz version horn with similar results using a coaxial compression driver at his site.

My tip, which now actually DIY has access to or can borrow / rent:

3D printing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dasdoing]

I think compression drivers will eventualy become the standard. all disadvantages can nowadays be cured with DSP

I allready made the step, and even though mine is not as high-tech as the one in the video, I wont go back to dome. everyday I hear something from those speakers that just makes me think "I dind't know this could come out of a speaker". sometimes a song has a mechanical sounding percussive instrument and for a second I get worried the speaker is broken, only to realize it's in the recording. I heard the shuttle launch recording from that Destin guy on Youtube and those cracking sounds the shuttle makes where so powerfull I again was afraid the speaker would break, only to realize that it is totaly fine reporducing this. a dome speaker feels like a 1 liter car now. most of the time it get's the job done, but sometimes you just feel it's limit

 

[MenloBob]

Find somewhere to audition JBL M2s to answer your question.

 

[mhardy6647]

Apropos of (almost) nothing.

Yes, it's...

Horn Porn
Hr0n Pr0n.

 

[tomtoo]

Apropos of (almost) nothing.

Yes, it's...

Horn Porn
Hr0n Pr0n.

Looks like some bad old suckers that still can easaly kick some youngsters domes behind pluto, at least in spl.

 

[mhardy6647]

Those 2241s are on line even as I type this.
... and, here, I was a JBL hater for decades.

 

[DanielT]

It feels a little ... small to rejoice in such a small thing now with a thought on what is happening in the world, but okay if you live in peace and freedom, you can probably rejoice in the little things.

I won the bidding on a couple of drivers! Good price! They may not be "high end" but I'm not a "high end" speaker DIY person either.

These:

Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers

www.eighteensound.it

• 

FR drops quite a lot as it looks but maybe I will like it. It may be possible to EQa, if I want. The challenge will be to find an amp with low enough power? Not much is needed for those. Maybe if I test and let my vintage HK 330 C drive them?
Bass driver, midrange, I have not figured out what I should have. Maybe test with my Faital Pro 4 "broadband. Or something else.
Run the signal via pre amp on my NAD receiver into a 2x4 miniDSP. Out of it to two different amps. I thought something like that.

A fun try project, I thought. I will, finally, have access to the small carpenter's workshop from the end of next week.

Edit:
Maybe if I buy some reference driver from Dayton. They are selling some of them at a good price in Gothenburg right now (a city I will pass by in a number of days). Fun to think of different solutions.

Dayton Audio - RS150-8 6" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm

RS150-8 6" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm

www.daytonaudio.com

 

[peanuts]

compression drivers are needed when using larger woofers (above 10") in a 2-way. domes dont go low enough and wont match the dispersion of the woofer unless a similare sized waveguide.
many 1" drivers are cheap. like the selenium d220ti at $50 each. it sounds fine on a JBL PT waveguide

this can be done for about $300 in parts for a pair of speakers. + the low cost minidsp 2x4.

S15 - Econowave DSP

The Original S15 Econowave DSP Eminence Beta 12a + Selenium D220Ti & Pyle WG (C1-W1-CD1) Econowave is a cost effective control...

gainphile.blogspot.com