"Completing" vs. "Upgrading"?

[stan2bay]

Hello Everyone!

I would like to understand what your thoughts are about "Completing" vs. "Upgrading" an audio system?

My current system: Macbook Pro / Apple Music Lossless -> Khadas Tone Board -> Aiyima A07 -> Wharfedale 225 Speakers.

To improve my system I have two options - Add a couple of subwoofers to get the bass frequencies that the bookshelf speakers cannot produce (complete) or get a new pair of well measured bookshelf speakers - Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 / Revel M16 / Revel M105. (Upgrade)

I know the best way would be to get both - a better pair of bookshelf speakers and add a couple of subwoofers, but if I want to stagger my upgrades - what would you suggest I should get first to significantly improve the quality of my stereo?

 

[GXAlan]

Bass, always bass.

(As long as your neighbors/spouse/roommates/pets aren't annoyed by suwoofers.)

There is a lot of talk about stereo subs, but my bias has always been that one good subwoofer is better than two cheap subwoofers.
SUB 550P | 500W, 10-inch powered subwoofer (jbl.com)

Free returns, currently $199.

 

[stan2bay]

Bass, always bass.

(As long as your neighbors/spouse/roommates/pets aren't annoyed by suwoofers.)

There is a lot of talk about stereo subs, but my bias has always been that one good subwoofer is better than two cheap subwoofers.
SUB 550P | 500W, 10-inch powered subwoofer (jbl.com)

Free returns, currently $199.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Frequency response of 27Hz – 150Hz (–3dB) would mean -3db at 27Hz right?

 

[GXAlan]

They're usually -6 dB. But the fact that it used to be under the JBL Synthesis tells you about its performance...
SUB 550P | 500W, 10-inch powered subwoofer (jblsynthesis.com)

It's still a 10" sub so it cannot defy the laws of physics, and it's also a sealed sub, so it won't have the deepest extension. But as an upgrade to the Wharfdales, that's a good budget option.

That said, free returns is real so it's worth trying. You can get nicer subs if you use up your full $1500 budget, but probably not worth it at the moment.

 

[DVDdoug]

Usually I'd say it depends on what's wrong with your Wharfedale's?

Otherwise, I agree. Speaker response can be EQ'd but with a 6-inch woofer you're never going to get "realistic" bass.

 

[Ron Texas]

Adding subwoofers is far from a trivial task. First off one needs a way to roll off the bass on the mains. Often, it will be necessary to add a time delay to the mains. If you were getting by without room EQ before, you are far more likely to need it with subs.

By the way, if the OP is not using room EQ now, he should try it before doing anything else.

 

[stan2bay]

Usually I'd say it depends on what's wrong with your Wharfedale's?

Otherwise, I agree. Speaker response can be EQ'd but with a 6-inch woofer you're never going to get "realistic" bass.

Well, I have had these speakers for a couple of years now and I listen to all kinds of music on them (thanks to curated Apple playlists). I personally do not like bright speakers and the Wharfedales are warm sounding speakers - but for some reason I find them "dull". I am also planning to get the miniDSP UMIK1 and setting up a system wide EQ on my Macbook to see if EQ can help.

 

[GXAlan]

Adding subwoofers is far from a trivial task. First off one needs a way to roll off the bass on the mains. Often, it will be necessary to add a time delay to the mains. If you were getting by without room EQ before, you are far more likely to need it with subs.

By the way, if the OP is not using room EQ now, he should try it before doing anything else.

+1 for room EQ if you get budget a UMIK-1
+1 for trying out Sony Music Center and trying DSEE HX just because it's free (need to use WASAPI or ASIO output)
Edit: Just saw that the OP has a Mac. (Music Center for PC | Sony USA)

As for the subwoofer, the Wharfdales already start rolling off at 100 Hz so he's going to be fine with the sub ~80Hz probably and needing bass management. Just needs to make sure he has a line-out or sub out for the sub.

Wharfedale Diamond 225 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

 

[stan2bay]

Adding subwoofers is far from a trivial task. First off one needs a way to roll off the bass on the mains. Often, it will be necessary to add a time delay to the mains. If you were getting by without room EQ before, you are far more likely to need it with subs.

By the way, if the OP is not using room EQ now, he should try it before doing anything else.

I am planning to get a subwoofer (or maybe a pair) that has a built in crossover. So the plan is:
Macbook Pro / Apple Music Lossless -> Khadas Tone Board -> Active Subwoofer with built in crossover set at 80hz > Aiyima A07 -> Wharfedale 225 Speakers.

I'm not sure about the time delay though! I need to read up and understand more about that. And yes, I have already planned to get the UMIK-1 and apply EQ for the setup

 

[GXAlan]

I am planning to get a subwoofer (or maybe a pair) that has a built in crossover. So the plan is:
Macbook Pro / Apple Music Lossless -> Khadas Tone Board -> Active Subwoofer with built in crossover set at 80hz > Aiyima A07 -> Wharfedale 225 Speakers.

How big is your room? The JBL 550P is a no brainer as a budget option if you're in the US... But it doesn't look like the Khadas tone board has multiple outputs?

 

[stan2bay]

How big is your room? The JBL 550P is a no brainer as a budget option if you're in the US... But it doesn't look like the Khadas tone board has multiple outputs?

Its a small room - 10.5 ft x 12ft. Unfortunately I am in India, and the JBL 550P is not available here as far as I can see online. I'll have to look for something similar. As much as I have read, the Monoprice Monolith 10" THX is something that fits my requirements, but even that is not available in India.

No, the Khadas tone board does not have multiple outputs - just stereo RCA out. I will need to get a sub with an onboard crossover.

 

[GXAlan]

Its a small room - 10.5 ft x 12ft. Unfortunately I am in India, and the JBL 550P is not available here as far as I can see online. I'll have to look for something similar. As much as I have read, the Monoprice Monolith 10" THX is something that fits my requirements, but even that is not available in India.

No, the Khadas tone board does not have multiple outputs - just stereo RCA out. I will need to get a sub with an onboard crossover.

There are three kinds of subs. One with no crossover. Only good for HT. One with a built in low-pass crossover for the sub itself which lets you dial in the subwoofer if you had additional line out. One with a high-pass output for speakers, which is what you'd need.

In India, it's a different story from the US. Finding good subs with good crossovers is tricky. I don't think they make as many of them as they used to. I'm out of ideas.

 

[tmtomh]

Personally I've never been as enthused about subwoofers as most folks are - although I defer to the consensus here, as the arguments for a subwoofer make a lot of sense.

For smaller spaces in particular, though, that bottom 1-ish octave, from 20Hz to 40 or 50Hz, can be quite difficult to manage because the frequency wavelengths get so long and the room stays small - you've got reflections all over the place and you're dealing with 1/2 or 1/4 wavelengths rather than full wavelengths.

My questions about subs vs new speakers would be, are you happy with your current speakers' upper bass, midrange, and treble presentation? Are you happy with their soundstage imaging and the size of the "sweet spot" where that imaging stays stable if you move your listening position a little? Are you happy with how loud you can drive them using your current amplifier? If the answer to those questions is "Yes," then I would agree with others that a sub might make the most sense. If your answer to one or more is "No," then I'd suggest new speakers first.