Complete audio system with all inputs (vinyl, CD, streaming, others) - Nearfield Noob Notes

[GoneWithTheDess]

Hey guys, it's my first time posting here (although I've lurked a lot to read Amir's reviews). I've recently come into around 2k USD, and I'm using this to finally build out a great audio system for the first time. Sadly, this is quite hard, as I've got a long list of requirements. I'm not new to the audiophile hobby, I've picked up an Atom stack in the past with some nice Sennheiser/Dan Clark headphones, but I've never dealt with speakers before.

I'm going to be listening in extreme nearfield (perhaps 30-40 inches from the speakers) and am trying to adjust accordingly.

So far, I've decided on only two parts of the system: the turntable and the subwoofers. I have to go with the Pro-Ject VT- E (I know it's a lifestyle turntable, but it's more than good enough for my purposes) because I have an incredibly tiny space I need to fit this in. I've also ordered 2 of the 10-inch Vanguard Calderas for bass extension. Everything else is still up in the air...

Within this tight budget I'm looking for a wholly discrete component system fitting CD players, vinyl, MiniDisc, and streaming... and I'd like some help determining what would be the best components for me. So far, the ones I'm somewhat confident on are:

• Speakers: KEF Q1 Meta
• Phono Stage: Schiit Mani 2

Everything else is still there, though. I was thinking about buying the Topping A90 Discrete as a preamp for the speakers as well as a headphone output, and feeding the different inputs into it, which would require a DAC. Here's the first issue: should I get a dedicated cheap DAC, and use the CD and Minidisc stuff solely as transports, or rely on their internal chips? And if so, what DACs would be best for that? Again, I'm really not sure about any of this, and would greatly appreciate some help clearing things up! My first proper setup's gonna be a doozy...

 

[somebodyelse]

Consider the Wiim Ultra as a streamer/DAC/preamp. It includes a passable phono input, sub crossover and room correction. For the CD and MiniDisc you could connect one via toslink and the other via the analog input, or use a separate toslink switch. Or toslink/coax to ARC adapter if you can find one. That would just leave a power amp for the KEFs - pick one of the decent TPA325x amps with PFFB, of which there are several from Fosi, 3E, Topping etc. I don't think the impedance drops low enough for the PBTL versions to have any benefit, so no point paying the extra for them. If you care about matching appearance there's always the Wiim Vibelink amp which I believe stacks neatly with the Ultra.

 

[JeremyFife]

Interesting puzzle ...

As I understand it, you have committed to the TT and a pair of active Subs. The TT has a phono stage, so you don't need to worry about that just now.
What's that - around 500 + 2*(150) = $800, leaving you around $1,200?

Speakers should be the biggest budget item, assuming that you can fit everything in! You are listening in nearfield so you don't need 'room-filling speakers'. Note that, with those Kef speakers (which are a good choice otherwise) you need an Amp - one more component and a drag on your budget.
Can you get all the electronics with $600, which frees up $600 for speakers and is probably a sensible level

Seriously consider active speakers: Adam DV3 at the smaller end, or something like Kali LP6 if they fit in your space? No need for an Amp, very good quality. Take a look at alternatives too. Spend your budget on speakers, you won't

You will want to be able to integrate and manage those Subs properly, and you want streaming... that screams WiiM Ultra to me: sub management (it will have to be dual mono, but that's fine) but most importantly it has Room Correction / EQ. Even in nearfield, that EQ can make a huge difference (improvement).

Get the cheapest CD player that you like the look of, and consider DVD players too (cheap) and don't worry if you are using digital or analogue out. Digital is technically the better option - used as a transport.

MiniDisk? That's tricky. Do you have anything in mind?

 

[somebodyelse]

I had taken the Q1 Meta as a given, but there's not a lot to say against them. Same applies to the good actives too though - and either way the Wiim has some EQ you could use for speaker EQ rather than room EQ. If 'small' is a requirement there are others like the Adam d3v, iLoud Micro/Micro_Pro, Genelec 8010 (may be hissy?) and related 4010, 6010 etc. Plus the recently reviewed AudioSmile LBM.

I _think_ you could use the Sonos toslink to HDMI ARC adapter to get another digital input to the Ultra - seems like it does toslink to ARC but since they sell it only for their hardware it's difficult to be sure without trying. It may give you an extra digital input.

I've not seen measurements of any MD players, so no way to know which are good or bad. For CD transports see reviews from @NTTY, especially the handling of damaged discs. I'd hope someone soes similar tests for MD, but I don't remember having seen them anywhere.

 

[Robin L]

MiniDisk? That's tricky. Do you have anything in mind?

Do you have pre-recorded MiniDisks? If not, don't get one. There are cheaper and far superior options available now, like the Zoom and Tascam handheld digital recorders. You can also record direct to a computer and use software on the computer to edit files and create playlists. The sampling rates of MiniDisk players are limited to a species of MP3. The $109 Zoom H1essential recorder can record at up to 32/96. I've got a CD burner, it was dirt cheap and is very reliable, but I have to hook it up to a computer in order to get it to work. With CD players I've had the best luck, sonically, with hooking up a very modest BluRay player to one of Topping's budget DAC offerings. This also gives you the flexibility to hook up more than one device. I've got my laptop and my BluRay player hooked up to a Topping E30, very happy with the sound. I think the current version is the Topping E30II.

Topping E30 II DAC Review

This is review and detailed measurements of the Topping E30 II DAC. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $149. The single "SEL" button powers on the unit (touch sensitive) and selects input. Some combination of power cycling and that button lets you change menu settings but bets to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

According to Amir, a combined total of signal to noise ratio and distortion of -115db or less is the absolute limit of audibility. The Topping E30II measures around -117db, depending.

 

[Haflermichi]

I am also curious at the inclusion of minidisc...? Don't get me wrong, I have dozens of discs and 2 decks that I've used for decades and will continue to.
But unless you already have MDs it may be a needless expense.
Unless of course you simply want to experiment and play around with the format? In that case I'd say have at it. But be aware that second-hand MD deck prices are climbing.
Just please don't tell me you also want cassette tape which, ironically but predictably, is having something of an undeserved comeback

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

MiniDisk? That's tricky. Do you have anything in mind?

Thanks for the reply... and yeah. I'm probably going to end up getting an Onkyo deck (probably for around 200) which has a TOSLINK output and includes a CD player and a Minidisc one. From all the reviews I've seen online, most of the difference in a CD player is up to the DAC chip included, and I won't be using that.

It seems all roads lead back to the WiiM amp in the end... lol. Even if I didn't end up taking your advice and spent only around 400 on the speakers to hopefully increase my budget in other areas, a ten-band EQ with decent streaming capabilities and a good power amp for my usage is impossible to pass up. The amp does seem to be my best option. I'm not sure the turntable has a phono output, though... so I'll still need to get one.

500 + 200 + 300 + 350 = 1350 without speakers... should get me CD, streaming, vinyl, MD.

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

Do you have pre-recorded MiniDisks? If not, don't get one. There are cheaper and far superior options available now, like the Zoom and Tascam handheld digital recorders. You can also record direct to a computer and use software on the computer to edit files and create playlists. The sampling rates of MiniDisk players are limited to a species of MP3. The $109 Zoom H1essential recorder can record at up to 32/96. I've got a CD burner, it was dirt cheap and is very reliable, but I have to hook it up to a computer in order to get it to work. With CD players I've had the best luck, sonically, with hooking up a very modest BluRay player to one of Topping's budget DAC offerings. This also gives you the flexibility to hook up more than one device. I've got my laptop and my BluRay player hooked up to a Topping E30, very happy with the sound. I think the current version is the Topping E30II.

Topping E30 II DAC Review

This is review and detailed measurements of the Topping E30 II DAC. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $149. The single "SEL" button powers on the unit (touch sensitive) and selects input. Some combination of power cycling and that button lets you change menu settings but bets to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

According to Amir, a combined total of signal to noise ratio and distortion of -115db or less is the absolute limit of audibility. The Topping E30II measures around -117db, depending.

I don't have any pre-recorded minidiscs, but from what I've looked up, the Hi-MD discs specifically have the same audio quality as normal CDs. They're more portable... and for me they're just way cooler. I just think they're neat.

And yeah, the Topping DAC you mentioned is one I've been looking at. Solid option. I'll probably tack another 150 on... leaving me with around 500 for speakers.

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

I am also curious at the inclusion of minidisc...? Don't get me wrong, I have dozens of discs and 2 decks that I've used for decades and will continue to.
But unless you already have MDs it may be a needless expense.
Unless of course you simply want to experiment and play around with the format? In that case I'd say have at it. But be aware that second-hand MD deck prices are climbing.
Just please don't tell me you also want cassette tape which, ironically but predictably, is having something of an undeserved comeback

I can't believe that tape of all things is coming back... at least MD had advantages. People these days...

 

[Robin L]

I don't have any pre-recorded minidiscs, but from what I've looked up, the Hi-MD discs specifically have the same audio quality as normal CDs.

Nope, but you probably can't hear the difference. It was deliberately compromised with the intention of preventing cloning CDs, and that didn't work out at all. DATs (a format you should avoid like the plague, trust me) could clone a CD, however it's one of the most easily damaged media and the decks are nearly unrepairable.

They're more portable... and for me they're just way cooler. I just think they're neat.

As far as I can tell it's just as portable as CDs, but there's no gainsaying you finding them "cool".

And yeah, the Topping DAC you mentioned is one I've been looking at. Solid option. I'll probably tack another 150 on... leaving me with around 500 for speakers.

Hard to think of any piece of gear I've enjoyed more than my E30. To me, that one's got the "coolness" factor.

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't have any pre-recorded minidiscs

You're better off recording to your computer. You will need a regular soundcard with a line input (blue). Of if you have a laptop with only mic-in and headphone-out you'll need a USB audio interface with line inputs.

Once you have files on your computer you can transfer them to a thumb drive, or to your cell phone or tablet, or you can burn CDs if you have a CD burner for your computer, etc.

"The normal solution" for multiple inputs is a receiver. Audio Video Receivers always have digital inputs that can decode all of the DVD & Blu-Ray formats. Some stereo receivers have digital inputs and some don't, but most can't decode the movie formats.

BUT not all receivers/AVRs have preamp outputs for active speakers.

A preamp is also a "control center" that will work with active speakers but you usually pay more and get fewer features.

 

[Haflermichi]

Hi-MD was non-compressed linear PCM. "Technically" the same sq as CD.

But be aware that Hi-MD blanks are getting expensive. And I would argue Hi-MD is kind of counter to the "good enough" threshold of sound quality of standard MD.
Why pay and invest in Hi-MD when all operational aspects and durability of a portable digital recording medium that are desirable are satisfied already in standard MD?
I never went down the Hi-MD road. My father-in-law bought me the pinnacle of Hi-MD portables, the MZ-RH-1 and it was a pain in the ass to use, the battery gave out and it refused to operate on the battery adapter. Quite a fizzle for the format to me.

I continue to use my regular MD (Tascam and Sony) decks to record CD's from the library and I'm happy as a clam.

 

[Chrispy]

Why bother with vinyl?

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

You're better off recording to your computer. You will need a regular soundcard with a line input (blue). Of if you have a laptop with only mic-in and headphone-out you'll need a USB audio interface with line inputs.

Once you have files on your computer you can transfer them to a thumb drive, or to your cell phone or tablet, or you can burn CDs if you have a CD burner for your computer, etc.

"The normal solution" for multiple inputs is a receiver. Audio Video Receivers always have digital inputs that can decode all of the DVD & Blu-Ray formats. Some stereo receivers have digital inputs and some don't, but most can't decode the movie formats.

BUT not all receivers/AVRs have preamp outputs for active speakers.

A preamp is also a "control center" that will work with active speakers but you usually pay more and get fewer features.

Yeah, I know... for the Minidisc stuff, I already own a portable player and there's been a good amount of work into open-source software to help it work. I'm not too worried about that... it's mostly a hobby thing rather than 'serious audiophile'.

...the input stuff you bring up, on the other hand, won't be the greatest. I'm probably going to have to get some passive preamp (probably the Schiit Sys) so that I can route the phono input and the secondary DAC input into it, and toggle at will. The WiiM only has one set of line inputs and I'd need at least two with the vinyl setup. The CD/MD can go to the DAC by TOSLINK. I think I'm going to opt for the Topping DX5 II DAC/Amp combo, just so I can have the additional headphone input at my setup as well.

In order...
Stream by the WiiM amp into either headphones or speakers, USB out into the DX5.
CD by TOSLINK -> DX5 -> Sys -> WiiM -> Speakers. I can split off the headphone sound at the DX5.
Vinyl -> Mani 2 -> Sys -> WiiM -> Speakers... now that I think about this there's probably no way to listen to vinyl straight out of headphones. I'd have to change cables or look up some weird solution.
Minidisc might be tricky, apparently the optical output on the Onkyo decks only work with CDs now that I look into it?

Well, this brings up some new questions that I've read NTTY's reviews, specifically in regards to the Onkyo deck I planned on getting. For CDs, when was gapless playback invented? Would I have to worry about it if I have to deal with an old CD player?

 

[Haflermichi]

OMG! Gapless playback...
The "problem" of gapless playback was an absolute NON-ISSUE with cd players for decades.
It was, ahem, a standard feature!
Gaps are a modern, absurd problem with the streaming era of music playback.

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

Why bother with vinyl?

It's fun to watch a disc spin in front of you. Round and round...

(More seriously, you're not as engaged in the music unless you have a whole ritual for that. I'm used to Spotify and YouTube music where it's mostly disposable, and forcing your brain into a state of "oh, he put the record on the turntable" primes you to listen to the music deeper.)

And also, I have the money to get amazing audio AND good enough vinyl (if I stick to my budget.) So I will.

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

OMG! Gapless playback...
The "problem" of gapless playback was an absolute NON-ISSUE with cd players for decades.
It was, ahem, a standard feature!
Gaps are a modern, absurd problem with the streaming era of music playback.

Oh, so if you just sit down and listen through a CD it won't be a problem? What a relief...

 

[Chrispy]

It's fun to watch a disc spin in front of you. Round and round...

(More seriously, you're not as engaged in the music unless you have a whole ritual for that. I'm used to Spotify and YouTube music where it's mostly disposable, and forcing your brain into a state of "oh, he put the record on the turntable" primes you to listen to the music deeper.)

And also, I have the money to get amazing audio AND good enough vinyl (if I stick to my budget.) So I will.

LOL no, it's not. If that's exciting to you.....

I had the "ritual" for longer than you've likely been alive....

 

[GoneWithTheDess]

LOL no, it's not. If that's exciting to you.....

I had the "ritual" for longer than you've likely been alive....

Honestly, you're kinda right about that. In the end, it really is just another way to listen to music. I could take those 800 dollars from the turntable, the phono, and the switcher to buy an electrostatic headphone with accompanying amplifier. I guess the real question is if vinyl's worth more to me than a wholly new way to hear music.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Haflermichi]

I for one am very glad to hear your awareness of the "disposable" mindset that has been created by the easy-access, no-cost, no repercussions from copyright streaming, file-sharing world.
You sound like someone who is willing to invest time to appreciate what musical artists create. That's great!
But has an aging, lifelong HiFi and music enthusiast I can't tell you how, as a teenager, I longed to get away from the noise, poor (relative) performance and inconvenience of vinyl. I went through a couple different TTs. Mind you I still have dozens of albums from those days.
But once CD hit I replaced them all and luxuriated in the superior SQ and yes, gapless playback.
My ritual became put the shiny disc in-hit play-enjoy! Such a relief.
You also sound like someone who appreciates the electromechanical nature of these now ancient mediums. And that's totally okay!
Personally I draw the line at reel-to-reel. Lovely machines but too much space for me!