Complementary amplifiers to something ultra transparent?

[nyxnyxnyx]

Hello everyone.
I think that most of us here already have very transparent and clean amplifiers, namely something like Atom/A90/THX.....They are indeed very good but I want to hear if you have experienced something else, something that sounded noticeably different.
Are there any amplifiers out there, be it tube/hybrid or another solid-state, that can bring out a whole different flavor(if such things exist)?
All subjective and objective opinions/recommendations are welcome, I don't mind if it looks ugly or measures like sh*t. Be descriptive as much as you can!

 

[ReaderZ]

Tube amps can bring different sound and are waaaay more fun, I just don't have the time/space/money to play around with them now so I am using an A50s .

 

[Phorize]

Hello everyone.
I think that most of us here already have very transparent and clean amplifiers, namely something like Atom/A90/THX.....They are indeed very good but I want to hear if you have experienced something else, something that sounded noticeably different.
Are there any amplifiers out there, be it tube/hybrid or another solid-state, that can bring out a whole different flavor(if such things exist)?
All subjective and objective opinions/recommendations are welcome, I don't mind if it looks ugly or measures like sh*t. Be descriptive as much as you can!

I believe you want to a 1940s to 1950s western electric or mullard valve amplifier. Well engineered but hopelessly obsolete valve frivolity. Lovely warm tubey sound. Nothing like those transparent, sufficiently powered monstrosities that they tout around these here parts

http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-003e.htm

 

[egellings]

Amplifiers with a high-ish output impedance with interact with speakers in various ways, giving rise to a plethora of different sounds depending upon the speakers' load impedance variations with frequency. Tube amplifiers often have that problem, especially the single ended variety and those that use little or no loop feedback to fix things up a bit. If you hit upon a euphonic combination of amplifier and speaker, then the tube approach can work. Change the speaker, and it may not work.

 

[DVDdoug]

They are indeed very good but I want to hear if you have experienced something else, something that sounded noticeably different.

Different and worse, yes. But most bad-sounding amplifiers I've heard were just noisy. And usually they've been paired with cheap speakers so it's hard to judge the amplifier.

There is something called "euphonic distortion" which is apparently sometimes desirable to some listeners. Guitar players sometimes like the way their tube amps distort, especially when over-driven, but the speaker & cabinet also contribute to the guitar's sound and you wouldn't want that as a hi-fi amp/speaker!*

When I was in high school somebody gave me two tube amps. One was a Macintosh and it sounded perfect, but it was mono. The other was a no-name brand and it was stereo but it had rolled-off highs. I made a random-experimental modification to fix-up the highs.

Realistically, most amplifiers have been pretty good since solid state amplifiers were introduced.


* I read a story once by a guy that had repaired a friend's guitar amp. In addition to the repair he found a "flaw" in the design and fixed it. (I think it was a just a resistor value). But the guitarist said there was still something wrong until he put-back the original circuit.


P.S.
Probably the "best" way experiment and play-around with sound is with EQ.

Or if you get an audio editor (Audacity is free) there are all kinds of effects. In addition to EQ., compression and reverb are the other two most common effects used in audio production. Most of "us" don't want more compression, but there are soft-clipping tube simulation and tape saturation effects. (Clipping/limiting/saturation is a kind of compression.) There is also expansion (and somewhere I've seen a "peak unlimiter") but you can't accurately un-do the compression & limiting on a recording. Audacity comes with more than 50 effects and there are lots of 3rd-party plug-ins, but many of these are "special effects" that you wouldn't want for everyday music listening.

 

[tomtoo]

Hello everyone.
I think that most of us here already have very transparent and clean amplifiers, namely something like Atom/A90/THX.....They are indeed very good but I want to hear if you have experienced something else, something that sounded noticeably different.
Are there any amplifiers out there, be it tube/hybrid or another solid-state, that can bring out a whole different flavor(if such things exist)?
All subjective and objective opinions/recommendations are welcome, I don't mind if it looks ugly or measures like sh*t. Be descriptive as much as you can!

"whole different flavor"...

No problem get a Marshal guitar tube amp. Complete different flavor. Really different.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

"whole different flavor"...

No problem get a Marshal guitar tube amp. Complete different flavor. Really different.

Sorry, I don't know if your suggestion is ironic or not, but yeah I'm really looking to see if there's something that sounds really different (or at least people feel that way). If no such thing like that exists then I'm cool to acknowledge it, as I'm just exploring more in this hobby.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

I believe you want to a 1940s to 1950s western electric or mullard valve amplifier. Well engineered but hopelessly obsolete valve frivolity. Lovely warm tubey sound. Nothing like those transparent, sufficiently powered monstrosities that they tout around these here parts

http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-003e.htm

How difficult is it to find the models you were referring to? I don't mind if it sounds noticeably worse, it's mainly the curiosity that is motivating me.
But seeing the date you mention I'm also concerned about the longevity of those products, I'm really clumsy when it comes to repairing/restoring electrical parts haha.

 

[egellings]

For the guitarist, the amp is more a musical instrument than an accurate reproducer. The amp, speaker & guitar all interact to provide a particular desired sound effect.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Different and worse, yes. But most bad-sounding amplifiers I've heard were just noisy. And usually they've been paired with cheap speakers so it's hard to judge the amplifier.

There is something called "euphonic distortion" which is apparently sometimes desirable to some listeners. Guitar players sometimes like the way their tube amps distort, especially when over-driven, but the speaker & cabinet also contribute to the guitar's sound and you wouldn't want that as a hi-fi amp/speaker!*

When I was in high school somebody gave me two tube amps. One was a Macintosh and it sounded perfect, but it was mono. The other was a no-name brand and it was stereo but it had rolled-off highs. I made a random-experimental modification to fix-up the highs.

Realistically, most amplifiers have been pretty good since solid state amplifiers were introduced.


* I read a story once by a guy that had repaired a friend's guitar amp. In addition to the repair he found a "flaw" in the design and fixed it. (I think it was a just a resistor value). But the guitarist said there was still something wrong until he put-back the original circuit.


P.S.
Probably the "best" way experiment and play-around with sound is with EQ.

Or if you get an audio editor (Audacity is free) there are all kinds of effects. In addition to EQ., compression and reverb are the other two most common effects used in audio production. Most of "us" don't want more compression, but there are soft-clipping tube simulation and tape saturation effects. (Clipping/limiting/saturation is a kind of compression.) There is also expansion (and somewhere I've seen a "peak unlimiter") but you can't accurately un-do the compression & limiting on a recording. Audacity comes with more than 50 effects and there are lots of 3rd-party plug-ins, but many of these are "special effects" that you wouldn't want for everyday music listening.

I feel that way too. I think especially in recent years there are many great amplifiers (even at very budget price), not sure if the whole market is like that now but I'm happy with what I see and experienced.

 

[tomtoo]

Sorry, I don't know if your suggestion is ironic or not, but yeah I'm really looking to see if there's something that sounds really different (or at least people feel that way). If no such thing like that exists then I'm cool to acknowledge it, as I'm just exploring more in this hobby.

It was some kind of joke. Sure amps like this exists. But usually in hifi its the goal for a amp to reach transparancy means no influence on the sound. While the goal of a guitar amp is to make the guitar sound good. A lot influence on the sound of the input signal.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

It was some kind of joke. Sure amps like this exists. But usually in hifi its the goal for a amp to reach transparancy means no influence on the sound. While the goal of a guitar amp is to make the guitar sound good. A lot influence on the sound of the input signal.

I agree with what you say about the goal of hifi, or rather reproduction(?) as some said.
The thing to me (as someone who's interested in this hobby and music in general) is that great, transparent gears are widely accessible now - and even at great prices. So my need for that is already happily fulfilled, if there's something I want to experience now it should be something different, as I see no point in trying 2 ultra-transparent amps which I'm almost sure it will be super hard to point out differences - IF there were any.

 

[Phorize]

How difficult is it to find the models you were referring to? I don't mind if it sounds noticeably worse, it's mainly the curiosity that is motivating me.
But seeing the date you mention I'm also concerned about the longevity of those products, I'm really clumsy when it comes to repairing/restoring electrical parts haha.

They are diy designs, so you can do them yourself. You could try something more modern like an elekit.

@tomchr used to do a very nice 300b kit but he very selfishly discontinued it before I could get one

 

[tomtoo]

I agree with what you say about the goal of hifi, or rather reproduction(?) as some said.
The thing to me (as someone who's interested in this hobby and music in general) is that great, transparent gears are widely accessible now - and even at great prices. So my need for that is already happily fulfilled, if there's something I want to experience now it should be something different, as I see no point in trying 2 ultra-transparent amps which I'm almost sure it will be super hard to point out differences - IF there were any.

Thats ok, with that in mind i would look for some older tube amps if you not need much power.

 

[tomchr]

@tomchr used to do a very nice 300b kit but he very selfishly discontinued it before I could get one

You snooze, you lose.

You can find the DG300B design docs, including schematics, here: https://neurochrome.com/pages/dg300b

And, yep. It's discontinued along with my other tube circuits. The support cost to keep the circuits going was astronomical as each build required custom support. It didn't help that Classic-Tone discontinued the only power transformer that would allow the DG300B to work world-wide. Basically if you build one expect to have to get all custom iron.

The only high-voltage circuit I offer is the 21st Century Maida Regulator.

If you want tube circuits, I recommend Tubelab: http://tubelab.com. Let George know I sent you.

Tom

 

[egellings]

Inexpensive switch-mode amplification has made good sound pretty affordable. Pretty soon an amplification channel will be just a small black wart on a PCB.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

You snooze, you lose.

You can find the DG300B design docs, including schematics, here: https://neurochrome.com/pages/dg300b

And, yep. It's discontinued along with my other tube circuits. The support cost to keep the circuits going was astronomical as each build required custom support. It didn't help that Classic-Tone discontinued the only power transformer that would allow the DG300B to work world-wide. Basically if you build one expect to have to get all custom iron.

The only high-voltage circuit I offer is the 21st Century Maida Regulator.

If you want tube circuits, I recommend Tubelab: http://tubelab.com. Let George know I sent you.

Tom

Thanks for the input.
I did check the link from your website, I plan to try it at one point or another in my journey - but I did read the warning and I feel like I'm not experienced enough to handle that kit myself. Can you give me advice on what steps I need to do in order to have the whole set complete? I'm thinking of buying that kit then find someone in my local area to solder it, but I don't know what's next.

 

[dasherzx]

always fancied one of them luxman/yamaha integrated amps with their analog meters. they're not headphone amps but they do have a headphone out. doubt there's anything left after a d90/a90/hypex combo for now tbh.

 

[solderdude]

Hello everyone.
I think that most of us here already have very transparent and clean amplifiers, namely something like Atom/A90/THX.....They are indeed very good but I want to hear if you have experienced something else, something that sounded noticeably different.
Are there any amplifiers out there, be it tube/hybrid or another solid-state, that can bring out a whole different flavor(if such things exist)?
All subjective and objective opinions/recommendations are welcome, I don't mind if it looks ugly or measures like sh*t. Be descriptive as much as you can!

This perhaps.. fully complementary to accurate sound.

 

[tomtoo]

This perhaps.. fully complementary to accurate sound.

Oh man the most expensive effectsbox you can think of.
And even as effectsbox it will be disapointing