Comparing Buckeye and VTV Purifi Amps

[Michael7979]

Hello. I am wondering if anyone has had an opportunity to make a direct, head-to-head comparison of the Purifi-based stereo (i.e., 2-channel) amplifier offerings from Buckeye and VTV. I have read glowing reviews of both amps, and the Buckeye is priced similarly to Purifi's base model (without an op-amp upgrade).

Some reviews say that the Weiss op-amp ups the game substantially for the VTV Purifi amp. But it also nearly doubles the price! The Weiss OP2-BA op-amp, used by VTV, costs only $169 retail. I wonder why it makes the amp's price so much higher. Maybe it's just a huge markup by VTV (because they can do so), or is there a lot of labor involved in installing it? If you have done a head-to-head comparison, please let me know the results in terms of sound quality and also which op-amp module was in the VTV.

Many thanks,
Mike

 

[olbobcat]

Hello. I am wondering if anyone has had an opportunity to make a direct, head-to-head comparison of the Purifi-based stereo (i.e., 2-channel) amplifier offerings from Buckeye and VTV. I have read glowing reviews of both amps, and the Buckeye is priced similarly to Purifi's base model (without an op-amp upgrade).

Some reviews say that the Weiss op-amp ups the game substantially for the VTV Purifi amp. But it also nearly doubles the price! The Weiss OP2-BA op-amp, used by VTV, costs only $169 retail. I wonder why it makes the amp's price so much higher. Maybe it's just a huge markup by VTV (because they can do so), or is there a lot of labor involved in installing it? If you have done a head-to-head comparison, please let me know the results in terms of sound quality and also which op-amp module was in the VTV.

Many thanks,
Mike

You need to 2 per channel, 4 total for stereo, per Weiss website. $676.

 

[peng]

Hello. I am wondering if anyone has had an opportunity to make a direct, head-to-head comparison of the Purifi-based stereo (i.e., 2-channel) amplifier offerings from Buckeye and VTV. I have read glowing reviews of both amps, and the Buckeye is priced similarly to Purifi's base model (without an op-amp upgrade).

Some reviews say that the Weiss op-amp ups the game substantially for the VTV Purifi amp. But it also nearly doubles the price! The Weiss OP2-BA op-amp, used by VTV, costs only $169 retail. I wonder why it makes the amp's price so much higher. Maybe it's just a huge markup by VTV (because they can do so), or is there a lot of labor involved in installing it? If you have done a head-to-head comparison, please let me know the results in terms of sound quality and also which op-amp module was in the VTV.

Many thanks,
Mike

I have compared my Buckeye N502MP with the VTV Purifi Eigentakt Eval1 and I would say in a controlled DBT no one can identify which one is playing. I lend my N502MP to the person who bought my Bryston 4B SST and Parasound A21 so he could do a single blind, level matched, confirmed with REW and a high end mic, using his best Topping DAC and he heard no difference between them. Then I borrowed his switches and we do a DBT between the N502MP and a Harmon Kardon receiver, I could not tell a difference but he managed to guess right several times in a row though he thought the difference was very subtle and could not say which one he preferred. Aside from audio performance, the Buckey amp was much cheaper, more powerful on paper and workmanship is a little better, but that's just based on mine so ommv.

To me, people worry too much about which amps (I mean well spec'ed/measured ones) sound better, should focus more on things that can produce audible differences. If a difference is audible, it for sure will be measurable and explainable. Obviously there are plenty of subjective measurements out there with claims/beliefs that one amp sounds warmer, more musical, punchy, clearer than another blablabla but like Dr. Toole alluded to more than once, if they know which one is playing, it doesn't matter what they think.., for such "head-to-head comparison, it has to be done in controlled DBTs otherwise the reported results are not reliable/repeatable and may be treated as the individual's opinions and/or preference only.

 

[strummr]

I have compared my Buckeye N502MP with the VTV Purifi Eigentakt Eval1 and I would say in a controlled DBT no one can identify which one is playing. I lend my N502MP to the person who bought my Bryston 4B SST and Parasound A21 so he could do a single blind, level matched, confirmed with REW and a high end mic, using his best Topping DAC and he heard no difference between them. Then I borrowed his switches and we do a DBT between the N502MP and a Harmon Kardon receiver, I could not tell a difference but he managed to guess right several times in a row though he thought the difference was very subtle and could not say which one he preferred. Aside from audio performance, the Buckey amp was much cheaper, more powerful on paper and workmanship is a little better, but that's just based on mine so ommv.

To me, people worry too much about which amps (I mean well spec'ed/measured ones) sound better, should focus more on things that can produce audible differences. If a difference is audible, it for sure will be measurable and explainable. Obviously there are plenty of subjective measurements out there with claims/beliefs that one amp sounds warmer, more musical, punchy, clearer than another blablabla but like Dr. Toole alluded to more than once, if they know which one is playing, it doesn't matter what they think.., for such "head-to-head comparison, it has to be done in controlled DBTs otherwise the reported results are not reliable/repeatable and may be treated as the individual's opinions and/or preference only.

agree with @peng, and sorry if off-topic (Buckeye vs VTV), but where the class D amps shine IMO is the power level. I've had both Bryston 4B3 along with 7B3s... quite powerful amps, but still seemed to struggle somewhat with demanding speakers and high volumes - then I purchased a Purifi amp (March Audio), and became a believer in class D amps for clean power to drive difficult loads. It's obvious 'sound' assessments are purely subjective, and I suspect it would be different for different amps with different people (lol), but my real-world power (not sound) assessments with a specific set of speakers (yes, the perception of loudness/volume could differ without using sound meters), in my room, with nothing changed but the amps - my Purifi class D amp delivers significantly more clean, power over the Bryston A/B amps I've had. The power in the bass notes are significant, and undoubtedly discernible.

 

[Matias]

I have compared my Buckeye N502MP with the VTV Purifi Eigentakt Eval1 and I would say in a controlled DBT no one can identify which one is playing. I lend my N502MP to the person who bought my Bryston 4B SST and Parasound A21 so he could do a single blind, level matched, confirmed with REW and a high end mic, using his best Topping DAC and he heard no difference between them. Then I borrowed his switches and we do a DBT between the N502MP and a Harmon Kardon receiver, I could not tell a difference but he managed to guess right several times in a row though he thought the difference was very subtle and could not say which one he preferred. Aside from audio performance, the Buckey amp was much cheaper, more powerful on paper and workmanship is a little better, but that's just based on mine so ommv.

To me, people worry too much about which amps (I mean well spec'ed/measured ones) sound better, should focus more on things that can produce audible differences. If a difference is audible, it for sure will be measurable and explainable. Obviously there are plenty of subjective measurements out there with claims/beliefs that one amp sounds warmer, more musical, punchy, clearer than another blablabla but like Dr. Toole alluded to more than once, if they know which one is playing, it doesn't matter what they think.., for such "head-to-head comparison, it has to be done in controlled DBTs otherwise the reported results are not reliable/repeatable and may be treated as the individual's opinions and/or preference only.

And this is the reason I recommend the NC502MP module to everyone. It is great combo of clean sound, high power and still somewhat small, light, low heat and affordable. End game really.

 

[BillGrimm]

I have compared my Buckeye N502MP with the VTV Purifi Eigentakt Eval1 and I would say in a controlled DBT no one can identify which one is playing. I lend my N502MP to the person who bought my Bryston 4B SST and Parasound A21 so he could do a single blind, level matched, confirmed with REW and a high end mic, using his best Topping DAC and he heard no difference between them. Then I borrowed his switches and we do a DBT between the N502MP and a Harmon Kardon receiver, I could not tell a difference but he managed to guess right several times in a row though he thought the difference was very subtle and could not say which one he preferred. Aside from audio performance, the Buckey amp was much cheaper, more powerful on paper and workmanship is a little better, but that's just based on mine so ommv.

To me, people worry too much about which amps (I mean well spec'ed/measured ones) sound better, should focus more on things that can produce audible differences. If a difference is audible, it for sure will be measurable and explainable. Obviously there are plenty of subjective measurements out there with claims/beliefs that one amp sounds warmer, more musical, punchy, clearer than another blablabla but like Dr. Toole alluded to more than once, if they know which one is playing, it doesn't matter what they think.., for such "head-to-head comparison, it has to be done in controlled DBTs otherwise the reported results are not reliable/repeatable and may be treated as the individual's opinions and/or preference only.

What Harman Kardon receiver were you comparing to? I've always liked their sound. If that's what the NC502MP sounds like, I might have to get one instead of the NC252MP I was considering. I am driving a pair of old Polk Monitor 10Bs. The small Topping amp I have now sounds OK at low levels, but if I want some punch, it just isn't there.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Amir has done a number of reviews from both companies and the only major distinction has been better build quality and customer service from Buckeye Amps. How much power you need is a function of speaker sensitivity, listening distance and how loud you like to listen.

I have all sorts of Purifi and Hypex amps and run medium sensitivity speakers listening about 3m away. Even at fairly loud levels, am very satisfied with a NC252MP amp. If you find you need more power, as long as your speakers are at least 4 ohms, buy another and run them in bridged mode. If you are unsure of how much power you may need, Crown and others have online calculators to help determine.

 

[Ukraineguy]

Hello, I just joined and this is my first post. I thought I would reply to this thread since it is raising some same questions I have. First, I own 'old' amps - Threshold S/200, McIntosh MC2105, Parasound Halo A21, and a McIntosh C33 preamp. I have a DIY pair of Criton 2tdx towers which are widely respected. Now, I wanted to 'dabble' in Class D beyond a cheap $75 desktop amp from China. I stumbled upon (and doors opened) the Legacy Audio Powerbloc2 online and read many reviews about it and that it contains the ICEpower 700AS1 modules (can't find anything about its input). Then that led to the discovery of the Parasound ZoneMaster 2350 with the same ICEpower modules, but with a normal input board which supposedly makes it sound more like class AB. It is also 350 watts into 4. I also read about the Orchard Starkrimson DIY kit, but it is close to $3000 with the good options. Then, I turned to Parts Express since I'm a DIY'er and they are close to me. I said to myself 'ok, I'll just build one'. Well, guess what? Building one with decent power and Ghent case would run a little over $1000!! So why not just buy a used Parasound 2350 or Legacy Powerbloc2 for $1000-$1500? Well, because that technology is now 5-6 years old! Then the VTV Purifi with tube input is what - $2500? So, yes, I have right now a chance to buy a Parasound 2350 open box for $950 plus $50 shipping. I'm curious as heck how it will sound, but at the same time, realize I'll probably never be able to sell it without take a big loss (even after buying it used). I'm not power crazy and 150 to 200 watts is PLENTY for me, even 100 is fine. But I want quality sound which is full, dynamic, quick and punchy bass, and mids and highs slightly on the bright side - like when I put new strings on my Gibson acoustic guitar and they have that new 'twang'. Should I wait (I'm 73) for the next iteration of Class D and just enjoy what I have, or sink $1000 into the Parasound for my first serious Class D adventure?

 

[Ukraineguy]

And this is the reason I recommend the NC502MP module to everyone. It is great combo of clean sound, high power and still somewhat small, light, low heat and affordable. End game really.

I know I'm probably late to the party, but are the ICEpower 700AS1 based amps (like Parasound 2350 and Legacy Powerbloc2) been surpassed by latest designs? Are they a 'waste' of $1200 now?

 

[Matias]

I know I'm probably late to the party, but are the ICEpower 700AS1 based amps (like Parasound 2350 and Legacy Powerbloc2) been surpassed by latest designs? Are they a 'waste' of $1200 now?

IMO they are inferior tech to NCore and Purifi, let alone for this price. I say based on comparing distortion curves in datasheets and and market price for new amps, but maybe if you can get for a low price and like how they sound, good for you.

 

[olbobcat]

Hello, I just joined and this is my first post. I thought I would reply to this thread since it is raising some same questions I have. First, I own 'old' amps - Threshold S/200, McIntosh MC2105, Parasound Halo A21, and a McIntosh C33 preamp. I have a DIY pair of Criton 2tdx towers which are widely respected. Now, I wanted to 'dabble' in Class D beyond a cheap $75 desktop amp from China. I stumbled upon (and doors opened) the Legacy Audio Powerbloc2 online and read many reviews about it and that it contains the ICEpower 700AS1 modules (can't find anything about its input). Then that led to the discovery of the Parasound ZoneMaster 2350 with the same ICEpower modules, but with a normal input board which supposedly makes it sound more like class AB. It is also 350 watts into 4. I also read about the Orchard Starkrimson DIY kit, but it is close to $3000 with the good options. Then, I turned to Parts Express since I'm a DIY'er and they are close to me. I said to myself 'ok, I'll just build one'. Well, guess what? Building one with decent power and Ghent case would run a little over $1000!! So why not just buy a used Parasound 2350 or Legacy Powerbloc2 for $1000-$1500? Well, because that technology is now 5-6 years old! Then the VTV Purifi with tube input is what - $2500? So, yes, I have right now a chance to buy a Parasound 2350 open box for $950 plus $50 shipping. I'm curious as heck how it will sound, but at the same time, realize I'll probably never be able to sell it without take a big loss (even after buying it used). I'm not power crazy and 150 to 200 watts is PLENTY for me, even 100 is fine. But I want quality sound which is full, dynamic, quick and punchy bass, and mids and highs slightly on the bright side - like when I put new strings on my Gibson acoustic guitar and they have that new 'twang'. Should I wait (I'm 73) for the next iteration of Class D and just enjoy what I have, or sink $1000 into the Parasound for my first serious Class D adventure?

If you buy the original Puifi from VTV it is $1000.

 

[Ukraineguy]

IMO they are inferior tech to NCore and Purifi, let alone for this price. I say based on comparing distortion curves in datasheets and and market price for new amps, but maybe if you can get for a low price and like how they sound, good for you.

So you are saying that based on all the data and the price (I can't find them any lower priced) to get something newer. I started getting that feeling but wasn't sure. If they were $400-500, maybe but not $1000 plus! I've heard VTV's quality is pretty low - any truth to that if you know? What about building something under 200 watts from ICEpower parts at Parts Express? That seems to me to get pricy too after buying Ghent case and wiring though.

 

[Matias]

So you are saying that based on all the data and the price (I can't find them any lower priced) to get something newer. I started getting that feeling but wasn't sure. If they were $400-500, maybe but not $1000 plus! I've heard VTV's quality is pretty low - any truth to that if you know? What about building something under 200 watts from ICEpower parts at Parts Express? That seems to me to get pricy too after buying Ghent case and wiring though.

In Europe I guess the most practical would be Audiophonics, like this one below for example.

AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S500NC Amplificateur Stéréo Class D Ncore 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

Stereo amplifier based on amplification module Hypex Ncore NC502MP with RCA and XLR inputs.

www.audiophonics.fr

PS: Slava Ukraini!

 

[peng]

What Harman Kardon receiver were you comparing to? I've always liked their sound. If that's what the NC502MP sounds like, I might have to get one instead of the NC252MP I was considering. I am driving a pair of old Polk Monitor 10Bs. The small Topping amp I have now sounds OK at low levels, but if I want some punch, it just isn't there.

HK3390, and I used its power amps only by pulling the jumper. The 3390 has the same power amp section as the 3490 but the 3490 has a larger power supply. I actually prefer the 3390 because I don't want to use the preamp/dac section anyway. I don't know why you believe the HK has its own sound that is different than the NC252MP's. If it does, the difference between it and the NC252MP will be so small that you will find it next to impossible to tell which "sound" you prefer.

 

[olbobcat]

So you are saying that based on all the data and the price (I can't find them any lower priced) to get something newer. I started getting that feeling but wasn't sure. If they were $400-500, maybe but not $1000 plus! I've heard VTV's quality is pretty low - any truth to that if you know? What about building something under 200 watts from ICEpower parts at Parts Express? That seems to me to get pricy too after buying Ghent case and wiring though.

Not worried at all, not much difference when I am all-stock Purify and a stock power supply. Has a nice case. Using it to bi-amp with my Luxman $4500 amp. This is the cheapest main amp I have owned in 15 years. Love it.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have compared my Buckeye N502MP with the VTV Purifi Eigentakt Eval1 and I would say in a controlled DBT no one can identify which one is playing. I lend my N502MP to the person who bought my Bryston 4B SST and Parasound A21 so he could do a single blind, level matched, confirmed with REW and a high end mic, using his best Topping DAC and he heard no difference between them. Then I borrowed his switches and we do a DBT between the N502MP and a Harmon Kardon receiver, I could not tell a difference but he managed to guess right several times in a row though he thought the difference was very subtle and could not say which one he preferred. Aside from audio performance, the Buckey amp was much cheaper, more powerful on paper and workmanship is a little better, but that's just based on mine so ommv.

To me, people worry too much about which amps (I mean well spec'ed/measured ones) sound better, should focus more on things that can produce audible differences. If a difference is audible, it for sure will be measurable and explainable. Obviously there are plenty of subjective measurements out there with claims/beliefs that one amp sounds warmer, more musical, punchy, clearer than another blablabla but like Dr. Toole alluded to more than once, if they know which one is playing, it doesn't matter what they think.., for such "head-to-head comparison, it has to be done in controlled DBTs otherwise the reported results are not reliable/repeatable and may be treated as the individual's opinions and/or preference only.

I own a Purifi Eval 1 Eigentact which I assembled from a Ghent Case and wiring, Hypex SMPS, and the Eval 1 module. Obviously, I find it to be an excellent product, but could I confidently state I could tell it apart from, say, and M502MP? I hardly think so. I bought the Purifi for peace of mind for the most part, plus I wanted the challenge of putting together an edge of the art component by myself. For me that made it worth extra cash and the sweat equity, but I don't think it's excellencies are the principal reason why my system sounds as good as it does. Rather, I see the Purifi as a reason why I won't ever have to worry (along with my Octo Dac 8 Pro) about my electronics making my system sound worse than it otherwise might.

 

[cavedriver]

I have the VTV NC502MP and it's a very cost-effective piece of kit. It is easily distinguishable from your average vintage A/B amp such those in an Onkyo receiver. Yes, bass is better driven perhaps, but mostly it is a kind of "sharpness" or change in attack. Everything is "right there" and 100% clear. For well-designed, neutral speakers it is good to listen to, but for speakers with flaws it can seem to emphasize them, making them more apparent, or at least that seems to be the difference to me.

The unit I have does not have the 12v trigger and exhibits a small "pop" when powered up or down, which is made quieter by using a balanced source hooked up to the balanced inputs (versus RCA adapters). My unit may be defective or improperly configured on the input stage, or improperly grounded (I've amateurly looked), or perhaps a separate "on" signal from the mains power is needed.

Note that the price is actually lower than quoted above since it's only $720 for the most base model:

VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500WX2 | VTV Amplifier

 

[theBruce]

In my main room, I have the VTV NC502MP Stereo for my front atmos and 5 VTV NC500 OEM Monoblocks for fronts, center and back sides.

Speakers are all Klipsch, RP-8000 for the fronts, RC-64 Center, Atmos and sides are RB-81.

Processor is a Yamaha CX-A5200.

I am quite happy with them, I just do not know what would sound better, especially for the price.

 

[tuskenraider]

In Europe I guess the most practical would be Audiophonics, like this one below for example.

AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S500NC Amplificateur Stéréo Class D Ncore 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

Stereo amplifier based on amplification module Hypex Ncore NC502MP with RCA and XLR inputs.

www.audiophonics.fr

I bought this amp to replace a Parasound HCA-2200II that kept needing repairs the last few years and have been completely satisfied with the order process and quality of this unit. It drives my Revel F208's nicely. The price($700!), build quality(shown to be better than VTV in reviews), power and compactness of the unit made me a happy buyer.

 

[GiFi]

I have a friend who owns the Hypex nc502mp and I think it sounds good but the real problem with this amp is that the input sensitivity is too low in terms of voltage (2.8Volt). Modern preamplifiers have output levels above 5 volts and keeping them at 1.5 volts for normal listening (in the nc502mp), in my opinion lowers the dynamics too much. The effect is even greater with the DAC's digital attenuators. my two cents