Coming soon: MiniDSP Flex with HDMI input

[Opal]

If your AVR has Multichannel Line input, then you could use the Flex HT as your DAC and DSP and the AVR as a Multichannel Amp.

The biggest "gotcha" of the Flex HT is that, unlike AVRs, it does not decode surround sound formats and does not support bitstream.

If you want to listen to multichannel content that was encoded in Dolby, DTS, Auro, etc, then you have to find an external device that can decode that to LPCM in order to use the Flex HT.

Hi, isit safe to say that the latest OLED tvs from LG does not decode dolby in their own internal Netflix/HBO/Disney app to output as multichannel LPCM? This looks like a really good product for me if i want to use my TV as an all in 1 streaming. Movies and music apps in the LG OLED. Quite sad if its true that the latest TV cant do all these

 

[kadajawi]

Hi, isit safe to say that the latest OLED tvs from LG does not decode dolby in their own internal Netflix/HBO/Disney app to output as multichannel LPCM? This looks like a really good product for me if i want to use my TV as an all in 1 streaming. Movies and music apps in the LG OLED. Quite sad if its true that the latest TV cant do all these

The Samsung S95C doesn't do it. If LG does, someone with an LG has to say. However it's no big surprise IMHO. Why integrate the hardware / software / licenses to decode surround formats, when all the TV is capable of playing back is two channel audio? That adds cost with very little benefit. Decoding to multichannel PCM is also hardly necessary, because all surround devices like soundbars and AVRs can understand bitstream formats. The MiniDSP Flex HT might be the first device that does surround over HDMI that does not do bitstream.

I think the Samsung actually can decode surround formats, but it transcodes them to AC3 for output via optical (which, again, is a more common use case for people with older AVRs). The Shield also transcodes all formats... to AC3 (and a few other formats, I think). For them it would really just be a software feature, but there was no demand for it until the Flex HT. And that's a very small niche.

Btw., has anyone received a HT with serial number below 1000? I'm wondering if they really have sold 1000+ units already, or if they have simply added 1000 to the actual number produced.

 

[cata02]

I wonder how Google TV's fare in this regard.
I have a Sony and was looking into the minidsp, but i really want something that just works; no more headaches.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Years ago, I was looking for an AVP, but as they are kind of niche products and thus expensive, I ended up by getting an AVR that had a preamp mode (marantz SR 6015). I am only interested in 5.1.
My setup is a mixed HC - music.
DRC was done by the mini DSP flex with Dirac for music and by audissey for HC.
Recently I wanted to make space in my TV stand furniture.
When I saw the Flex HT, I told myself, let'st get rid of the AVR which takes too much space and makes my wife moans.

Needed more thinking.
It does the job, but requires more configuration.
I ended up by configuring 3 presets on the Flex HT.
Preset 1 : music, source stereo toslink, dirac, routing on mains and subs with proper crossovers.
Preset 2 : HC for 5.1 source apps, LFE management, Dirac, routing+ filters on mains, sub, central channel and surrounds.
Preset 3 : TV channels and TV DD+ stereos sources. TV channels and some media apps here are broadcasted using stereo DD+. While the AVR was doing nice upmixing, I had to to also render the signal to the center channel iwith the Flex HT. Not as nice as proper real upmixing, but it does the job for watching news and TV programs (by routing also the L/R signal to center with some hpf and peq).Thus needed another config to route stereo to mains, central channel and sub with specific hpf and lpf for each channel.

 

[Opal]

The Samsung S95C doesn't do it. If LG does, someone with an LG has to say. However it's no big surprise IMHO. Why integrate the hardware / software / licenses to decode surround formats, when all the TV is capable of playing back is two channel audio? That adds cost with very little benefit. Decoding to multichannel PCM is also hardly necessary, because all surround devices like soundbars and AVRs can understand bitstream formats. The MiniDSP Flex HT might be the first device that does surround over HDMI that does not do bitstream.

I think the Samsung actually can decode surround formats, but it transcodes them to AC3 for output via optical (which, again, is a more common use case for people with older AVRs). The Shield also transcodes all formats... to AC3 (and a few other formats, I think). For them it would really just be a software feature, but there was no demand for it until the Flex HT. And that's a very small niche.

Btw., has anyone received a HT with serial number below 1000? I'm wondering if they really have sold 1000+ units already, or if they have simply added 1000 to the actual number produced.

Oh i see thanks. Looks like the apple 4k tv might be the only cheap and easy solution. Apple TV 4k decode pass through to oled tv to minidsp HT

 

[kadajawi]

I need to add a bit:
As I mentioned, the Shield (and I think the Fire TV 4K? Forgot already...) will give you 7.1 PCM with Kodi with some configuring, so if local media is you thing, this could be all you need. Streaming services are a problem though, their apps do not do the conversion.

However you could use Kodi for some streaming services. Kodi will then do all the decoding, which is great, except that in my case for whatever reason (most likely DRM?) it's limited to 1080p with HDR (Netflix) or 1080p without HDR (Disney+). The interface is also not exactly great (lists upon lists of shows and movies...), but you do get to pick which stream you want to watch and it'll tell you the (shockingly low) bitrates. Also, the frame rate switching works! I can't say that about the official app. Did you know Drive to Survive was 50p? Advantages and disadvantages. But perhaps a solution for those on a very small budget (might be trying it with a Fire TV 4K as well, maybe there I'll get higher resolutions?).

@Opal: That will work if your TV supports eARC and all cables along the way support HDMI 2.1.

 

[Colin Lewis Smith]

This is truly a niche product. It appear to require a decoding-capable streamer (Apple TV), an eArc-capable TV for switching, and amplification that can process analog (AVR with 7.1 in or power amps). I understand that this is a product geared toward tweakers, and audiophiles, but the requirement for supporting set of equipment makes it price prohibitive for average hobbyists. One is quickly into an analysis where a black box in the form of a new Dirac-capable AVR looks attractive. There is likely to be a trickle down effect as Dirac works its way into mid-grade Pioneer/Denon etc.. I’ll wait for a $1000 AVR with Dirac. Thanks all for the ongoing feedback on your journeys. These types of threads are invaluable learning tools.

 

[kadajawi]

This is truly a niche product. It appear to require a decoding-capable streamer (Apple TV), an eArc-capable TV for switching, and amplification that can process analog (AVR with 7.1 in or power amps). I understand that this is a product geared toward tweakers, and audiophiles, but the requirement for supporting set of equipment makes it price prohibitive for average hobbyists. One is quickly into an analysis where a black box in the form of a new Dirac-capable AVR looks attractive. There is likely to be a trickle down effect as Dirac works its way into mid-grade Pioneer/Denon etc.. I’ll wait for a $1000 AVR with Dirac. Thanks all for the ongoing feedback on your journeys. These types of threads are invaluable learning tools.

An all in one solution is cheaper. I saw the Marantz Cinema 70s for 630 Euro a while ago. And Denon / Marantz are doing firesales all the time.

However the MiniDSP is more flexible and promises better quality. You could get 2 to 4 Fosi ZA3 or similar (there are cheaper options too) for amplification, and you could get a Fire TV 4K which is almost free at times. As long as your TV is new enough. If not, yeah, you'll need to add an extractor. But I suppose you could stay close to $1000, with better amplification and DAC than a similarly priced AVR. And you could top up a little and profit from using an Apple TV 4K, for example. You could swap amplification, the MiniDSP is more flexible in terms of audio processing, ...

The whole system won't be as easy to use as an AVR perhaps (though ATV is easier to use than the smart TV stuff perhaps), unless you don't go for the cheapest options and think it through well. It is something for tinkerers. But it can be quite rewarding.

In my case I wanted to give my front speakers the best possible amplification I could afford. So NAD C298, something else Purifi-based or the Benchmark AHB2. An AVR wasn't going to cut it. So I needed a good pre-amp and DAC. But I was also needing surround, which very much limited the choices. Most AVRs are quite horrible in terms of DAC. The MiniDSP performs a lot better in that regard. For rear channels I need something decent, not great. An AVR would do, but if I were to get an AVR with great DAC I'd be leaning 5 figures, and most of the money goes towards getting 13 channels when I need 4.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

This is truly a niche product. It appear to require a decoding-capable streamer (Apple TV), an eArc-capable TV for switching, and amplification that can process analog (AVR with 7.1 in or power amps).

Apart from the decoding, that doesn't really sound niche in the current year. Active speakers are also a thing - I find it strange that many disregard them cause you can't change the amps (or whateber), but AVRs for some reason absolutely must have subpar built-in amps

 

[Left]

Almost decided that Apple TV 4K was way to go. Possibly with Infuse for ripped sources. But as a non-Apple user, how would I access my NAS and streaming music sources such as Qobuz? The Apple TV 4K is not designed to run headless. No port of MPD server exists for TVOS. Solution to get a Wiim just for audio? Beginning to get a bit kludgey for me.

 

[kadajawi]

Almost decided that Apple TV 4K was way to go. Possibly with Infuse for ripped sources. But as a non-Apple user, how would I access my NAS and streaming music sources such as Qobuz? The Apple TV 4K is not designed to run headless. No port of MPD server exists for TVOS. Solution to get a Wiim just for audio? Beginning to get a bit kludgey for me.

Well, if you had an Apple TV you could also get Apple Music. Which is pretty good, except for device support. Not sure if Qobuz is supported. I have a Raspberry Pi for Tidal Connect, if I were to do it again I would have just bought the Wiim mini (it didn't exist back then).

Infuse would be my way to go, I think it can access a NAS? And you could run Plex (or perhaps also Emby, Jellyfin etc.) on the NAS and access Infuse through it, or just use Plex (but as usual the Plex client seems to have issues). I'm going to try it out, but my Apple TV is going to ship early January only. For audio yeah it's going to be a bit harder I suppose... Plex I guess?

 

[Left]

For video, having the TV on is fine, but I'd rather have either an app on my phone or access a web page that works with either my cell or my laptop when listening to music.

At the rate Wiim is iterating I suspect they will have a combined video/music streamer by the time I am ready to buy.

 

[kadajawi]

For video, having the TV on is fine, but I'd rather have either an app on my phone or access a web page that works with either my cell or my laptop when listening to music.

At the rate Wiim is iterating I suspect they will have a combined video/music streamer by the time I am ready to buy.

Fair enough. I'd go with two different devices, because even if Wiim comes out with a video player, will it be any good? The challenges are quite different. And even if it will be good, will it do LPCM? Maybe if enough give that feedback, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

But if you're not in a hurry it doesn't hurt to wait, as the market is quickly evolving. Who knows, maybe MiniDSP is working on a device with bitstream support which would make all this headache obsolete. They'd be wise to do so, as I think there is a much larger market for a MiniDSP Flex HT that does support bitstream audio.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

I would think they have some kind of "bias" (or whatever) against bitstream and are not planning on making one supporting it, as it would render the Flex HT quite pointless

 

[staticV3]

I would think they have some kind of "bias" (or whatever) against bitstream and are not planning on making one supporting it, as it would render the Flex HT quite pointless

I bet it's just Licensing issues.

For a relatively small brand like miniDSP, it might be prohibitively expensive to buy licenses for every popular surround sound format.

Passing that cost onto consumers could mean significantly higher prices as they just don't have the sales volume of Denon, Marantz, etc.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

I bet it's just Licensing issues.

For a relatively small brand like miniDSP, it might be prohibitively expensive to buy licenses for every popular surround sound format.

That's surely part of the picture, but I don't think it's the main problem. Companies like Canton and Nubert seem to have no problem making processors way under $1000 while MiniDSP have made niche devices that are twice as expensive.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

That's surely part of the picture, but I don't think it's the main problem. Companies like Canton and Nubert seem to have no problem making processors way under $1000 while MiniDSP have made niche devices that are twice as expensive.

I expect Canton and Nubert to have way bigger sales volumes than minidsp.
And originally coming from speaker domain where margins are way bigger.
They are big actors in west and east europe.

 

[kadajawi]

I would think they have some kind of "bias" (or whatever) against bitstream and are not planning on making one supporting it, as it would render the Flex HT quite pointless

Would they hurt sales of the Flex HT? Yeah. But the Flex HT Bitstream would be just that... a Flex HT with some additional decoding capabilities. It wouldn't be an entirely new model. And how many would buy the Flex HT if it had that capability, but don't because it doesn't? I'd argue that that very much makes up for the loss in Flex HT sales. Besides, the cost of adding bitstream support is probably way less than they could charge more. Would I have paid 300+ for a Flex HT with bitstream support? Absolutely. Would it cost that much to add the functionality, even with licenses? I think so.

Anyway, what's the serial number on yours? Mine is 101*, so I wonder if they have sold 10+ units or 1010+ units at that point.

I doubt that Canton and Nubert have bigger sales volume. Their market is basically Germany. And then German customers who have active speakers by either Canton or Nubert, plus a few more. Whereas MiniDSP has the entire world, with a well known brand in this space (unlike Canton and Nubert, which are probably pretty much unheard of outside of Germany (well, at least Nubert, they don't sell outside Germany)). MiniDSP also have a unique product that scratches the itch of many audiophiles. You get good DSP processing and a high quality DAC at a very reasonable price (what else is there to buy? A Trinnov?).

IMHO a Flex HT with bitstream is something many are dreaming of. I mean how many have bought an AVR only to use it with an external amp or two? The Flex HT with bitstreaming would be the ideal device for that use case. However not having bitstream means people need to jump through a ton of hoops, get several additional devices to make up for the loss, perhaps buy a new TV, etc. And it adds a ton more clutter.

What MiniDSP has done is build a great passenger car but without seats. Some (very few) will be glad that they can add aftermarket seats or don't need any at all, some will begrudgingly add aftermarket seats or rather build their own, and most will just skip this model and go elsewhere.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Would they hurt sales of the Flex HT? Yeah. But the Flex HT Bitstream would be just that... a Flex HT with some additional decoding capabilities. It wouldn't be an entirely new model. And how many would buy the Flex HT if it had that capability, but don't because it doesn't? I'd argue that that very much makes up for the loss in Flex HT sales. Besides, the cost of adding bitstream support is probably way less than they could charge more. Would I have paid 300+ for a Flex HT with bitstream support? Absolutely. Would it cost that much to add the functionality, even with licenses? I think so.

Anyway, what's the serial number on yours? Mine is 101*, so I wonder if they have sold 10+ units or 1010+ units at that point.

I doubt that Canton and Nubert have bigger sales volume. Their market is basically Germany. And then German customers who have active speakers by either Canton or Nubert, plus a few more. Whereas MiniDSP has the entire world, with a well known brand in this space (unlike Canton and Nubert, which are probably pretty much unheard of outside of Germany (well, at least Nubert, they don't sell outside Germany)). MiniDSP also have a unique product that scratches the itch of many audiophiles. You get good DSP processing and a high quality DAC at a very reasonable price (what else is there to buy? A Trinnov?).

IMHO a Flex HT with bitstream is something many are dreaming of. I mean how many have bought an AVR only to use it with an external amp or two? The Flex HT with bitstreaming would be the ideal device for that use case. However not having bitstream means people need to jump through a ton of hoops, get several additional devices to make up for the loss, perhaps buy a new TV, etc. And it adds a ton more clutter.

What MiniDSP has done is build a great passenger car but without seats. Some (very few) will be glad that they can add aftermarket seats or don't need any at all, some will begrudgingly add aftermarket seats or rather build their own, and most will just skip this model and go elsewhere.

Nubert sells mass market stuff like soundbars, electronic, speakers.
To me, even if Nubert sells only in Germany, they target more people than Minidsp that sell niche products worldwide.
Canton does not sell only in Germany but worldwide.
Anyway, we can only speculate as we do not know real numbers.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

Would they hurt sales of the Flex HT? Yeah. But the Flex HT Bitstream would be just that... a Flex HT with some additional decoding capabilities. It wouldn't be an entirely new model. And how many would buy the Flex HT if it had that capability, but don't because it doesn't? I'd argue that that very much makes up for the loss in Flex HT sales. Besides, the cost of adding bitstream support is probably way less than they could charge more. Would I have paid 300+ for a Flex HT with bitstream support? Absolutely. Would it cost that much to add the functionality, even with licenses? I think so.

Anyway, what's the serial number on yours? Mine is 101*, so I wonder if they have sold 10+ units or 1010+ units at that point.

I agree with this, so I think the question is: why make the Flex HT at all when there is little apparent reason to omit bitstream compatibility?

Mine also starts with 10**