Coming from the DT880s(250ohm)...I'm torn between these three end game cans(HD 800 S, DCA E3, HE 1000SE). Which should I get?

[Dazerdoreal]

I must admit now I'm now taking a hard look at the ZMF Atriums. Hearing nothing but good things about them. Supposedly the stage is wide, are excellent with vocals, are versatile with all genres, and they're pretty. Caveat is they $2500. Any thoughts, lol?

ZMF is not your normal headphone company. If I understand correctly, it is centered around one guy who does handcraft these. They get manifactured after you ordered them.
Every headphone is handmade & one of a kind, and you have certain customisation options.

So, ZMF headphones have a lot of "personality". They look and feel amazing, and people love the idea of it.

When it comes to the technical stuff, I have the impression that it is not fully on par with something like Dan Clark or Sennheiser though. I am not sure if it is the best choice for the "rationalists".

 

[Pr0phet0ffD00m]

Hi guys good to be here! I've been rocking my Beyerdynamics DT-880s since 2009!!! They're still going and sound great. But after so many years the cable is acting up, causing audio in the left cup to cut out. Even without this problem, I have to admit I'm ready to upgrade regardless. I want something bigger and better. I'm finally in a position where I can splurge on a high end set of headphones, and after doing some research I've decided it's probably going to be between the following three, based on a budget of $2000 or less...

1)Sennheiser HD800 S
2)Dan Clark Audio E3
3)HiFiMan HE1000SE
4)....Bonus possibility.....Focal Stellia but very reluctant on this one because well...it's $1K *more*!

Now I will just come out and say, I am heavily leaning towards the HD800S due to what everyone says about their wide soundstage. The bias is already building. I listen mainly to three categories of music....

1)80's post-punk british alt-rock/new wave(think U2, The Cure, The Smiths, Echo and the Bunnymen, etc)
2)90's Trance/Progressive House(think 808 State, Depeche Mode remixes, etc)
3)JRPG orchestral-style soundtracks(think Final Fantasy series, Dragon Quest series, Xenoblade, etc).

Now you might look at this list and think damn, those are genres that cover a wide spectrum of musical styles and you'd be right, but here's the thing...despite EDM/Trance/whatever you wanna call it being known for its bass, and despite listening to the genre for many years, I don't particularly yearn for a lot of bass. In fact I always keep the bass on my Yamaha receiver below the mid-range. Boomy, loud sounding bass doesn't do anything for me. Unlike most people who are into trance/edm, I don't like having the bass turned up too high, otherwise it's too overbearing. I listen to Trance/EDM for it's melody and synth delivery, and consider the bass an effect that nicely compliments the music.

But keep in mind that is only one of three genres I'm into. It's for this reason that I'm considering the three headphones above, but leaning particularly towards the HD 800S despite the lack of bass(according to what people say). However, the other two...DCA E3 and HE1000SE have gotten so much praise it's hard to ignore them. I've watched videos from Passion for Sound and others, and they all say the HEKSE's have THE most detail they've heard and will bring out the flaws in your records' recordings. But then you have the Clarks, which people say have a special sound signature, sound spacious even for closed backs, and have great detail and sonic presence.

This makes it tough to come to a decision but I want to emphasize one more thing....I love love LOVE a small amount of reverb in my songs! When listening to something like Silver from Echo and the Bunnymen, I set the DSP to "Concert Hall" on my receiver because I want to make those strings sound like they're coming from all around me. I want a headphone that will help emphasize the dsp effect of a spacious, reverby, echo-y, ice-cave-y sound when listening to anything with strings or anything orchestral. If a super-wide soundstage is a sonic effect that helps deliver this kind of experience, then it sounds like the HD800S are my best bet?

By the way, I'm also in the market for a dac/amp combo and I've all but completely settled on the RME-ADI-2 Pro FS. This is the dac/amp I've been eyeballing and it has the features I'm looking for but I'm of course open to other suggestions.

So what do you guys think? Which headphones would you suggest as my upgrade from the DT880's 250ohm, giving my musical taste?

I have the same broad range in music and the 880s 250 as well. If you are looking for a side-grade for even less money, the Fidelio X2HRs are it. Sounds to me exactly the same but lighter and more comfortable. Since you like the reverby sound, only consider open or semi-open. I've been considering planar magnetics or stats such as Maxwell but headphone weight is a huge factor for me. You'll have neck problems if you go above 400g for long sessions. It's like the Meta Quest 2 issue on children's necks. That said, my last purchase was a Razer with 2.4G USB for less than a Benjamin and it has all the features and the resolution I need, especially in a wireless headphone. Just bought a Nothing, so I'm hoping that'll be fun to play with once it comes in.

 

[Subob]

Anyone have any experience with the HEDDphone Two? I posted my inquiry on reddit and someone strongly suggested them, writing...and I quote..."HEDDphone Two runs laps around all three".

I have heard the Heddphone two at CanJam.

Comfort is interesting. It has a unique headband adjustment where you can adjust the clamp force. It's clever, and may or may not work for you. It wasn't the most comfortable headphone I've tried, but of course YMMV.

Sound wise. They are extremely technical in terms of their really fast transient response. There is nothing 'lush' about them at all. This is likely due to the AMT driver used. They sound more like Studio headphones to me. If you like a 'clinical' sound then these deliver in spades. They're very good, but not my cup of tea.

For context, I should point out that I'm a big fan of Meze and ZMF headphones in general (although not all their models). Their build quality and comfort is top notch and I just like how most of their headphones sound to me. The Meze Elite is my 'end game' headphone for several reasons that have nothing to do with their price, but I would 100% try their new 105 Silva if you can. I already own the 109pro, but the 105 Silva competes with it very well and is cheaper, whilst being a little less 'bright', too. Comfort wise ( Liric aside ) I would be very surprised if anyone had any comfort issues with any Meze headphone, or ZMF for that matter.

More context. The Sennheiser 800S I found to be extremely comfortable, have excellent soundstage, but they lack bass weight for me and I didn't enjoy them.
Focals tend to dry and bright to me, in general.
For Hifiman, my favourite model is the Arya Organic. I wouldn't buy a Susvara or Susvara unveiled even if I could afford to.
DCA are very comfy but they don't particularly excite me in the sound department as they sound pretty neutral all round, and the E3 feels heavier than it probably is due to that weird gorilla glass cups plate, lol.

All the above are just my wholly subjective opinions, btw. Others may totally disagree. You can only know what's best for you by trying for yourself. Good luck with your search.

 

[isamu99]

I have read all of your replies so far and I really appreciate the suggestions guys. Lots of incredibly helpful and useful information in this thread.

Still doing lots of reading and watching vids, a final decision hasn't been made yet, but I have to admit...after a bit more research. I'm kind of leaning towards the HiFiMan HE1000SE's now. They seem to tick all the right boxes for me. I'm a sucker for detail, and it appears this headphone delivers it in spades, while having a nice wide soundstage and decent bass.

Anyone here tried the HE1000SEs but hated them? If so what did you not like about them? Also has anyone done an A/B comparison between the HE1000SEs and the Sennheiser HD 800S?

 

[Subob]

I have read all of your replies so far and I really appreciate the suggestions guys. Lots of incredibly helpful and useful information in this thread.

Still doing lots of reading and watching vids, a final decision hasn't been made yet, but I have to admit...after a bit more research. I'm kind of leaning towards the HiFiMan HE1000SE's now. They seem to tick all the right boxes for me. I'm a sucker for detail, and it appears this headphone delivers it in spades, while having a nice wide soundstage and decent bass.

Anyone here tried the HE1000SEs but hated them? If so what did you not like about them? Also has anyone done an A/B comparison between the HE1000SEs and the Sennheiser HD 800S?

Are you able to audition before you buy? I really like Canjam for this, although show conditions are not ideal, they at least give you a flavour straight away so you're not blind buying.

Are you in the UK or elsewhere? If the UK then Hifonix, in the Birmingham area, carry a lot of different models. Audio Sanctuary, in the London area, too. I'm sure there's other London based shops where you can test, too.

 

[isamu99]

Are you able to audition before you buy? I really like Canjam for this, although show conditions are not ideal, they at least give you a flavour straight away so you're not blind buying.

Are you in the UK or elsewhere? If the UK then Hifonix, in the Birmingham area, carry a lot of different models. Audio Sanctuary, in the London area, too. I'm sure there's other London based shops where you can test, too.

Hey Subob,
Nah, I'm in Los Angeles. And unfortunately my mom requires 24/7 supervision, so I'm pretty much homebound with inability to travel. But, the good news is most of these are available on Amazon and if I don't like a pair I'll just return it. So there's that

 

[Phorize]

Positives of the E3 are that the tonality is much better right out of the box - no EQ needed compared to the HD800S. On the other hand, a big advantage of the HD800S is comfort: it’s lighter, fully open, and very easy to wear for long sessions. The HD800S also gives you a wide, open presentation. Just don’t expect it to sound “speaker-like” - it’s not - but it is more open/wide than the E3.

When EQ’d to the same target, they still end up with different sound presentations, and I honestly enjoy both and regularly use both.

E3 downsides:

• Heavy, and can feel uncomfortable in hot weather
• Bass performance depends on getting a good seal
• More expensive

HD800S downsides:

• EQ is basically a must
• Bass can get a bit boomy with oratory EQ
• Tonality, even after EQ, feels a bit off to me

If you could demo them that would be ideal, because what applies to me, doesn't necessarily mean that it will apply to you, especially when it comes to closed-backs like E3.

Take a look also at the Hifiman Arya instead of HE1000SE. Currently Arya is 600 EUR. HD800s is around 1300 EUR, E3 is 2300 EUR.

Why not have the best of both worlds-get DCA noire X and an 800s. Then you have one of the best open backs (provided you EQ) and a fantastic closed back that gives you 90% of what the e3 gives you.

 

[Subob]

Hey Subob,
Nah, I'm in Los Angeles. And unfortunately my mom requires 24/7 supervision, so I'm pretty much homebound with inability to travel. But, the good news is most of these are available on Amazon and if I don't like a pair I'll just return it. So there's that

Sorry to hear that.
Good luck with the headphone search. Sometimes the searching is as much fun as finally getting what you want.

 

[Chagall]

Why not have the best of both worlds-get DCA noire X and an 800s. Then you have one of the best open backs (provided you EQ) and a fantastic closed back that gives you 90% of what the e3 gives you.

Yeah, Noire X didn't exist when I bought E3. If buying today, I would most likely go with the XO.

 

[MAB]

I have the DT880, and the HD800s.
I like them both. I prefer the HD800s since it is more comfortable. I worry that I also like it because it was more expensive.

Here is the HD800s as reviewed by Amir:

That's not bright, it does have weak bass as delivered.

Here are the DT880 250Ohm and the HD800s compared from measurements by Solderdude, who uses a different fixture than Amir:

I EQ both, particularly in the bass region. If I overdrive the DT880 the bass distorts, but that is at volumes too loud for my comfort.

 

[neRok]

I think that close-backs increasing tinnitus is anecdotal, not an established fact, so I'm not going to comment further.

I'm going to add to that anecdata. If you go see my old (~10yo) posts on OCAU, you will see that I was very "confused" by why the DT770's I bought sucked so bad — especially considering that I had been enjoying DT440's for many years at that point in time, and even DT880's for a bit (but with amp, not mobile). I said stuff like "when I crack the seal, they sound better"...

Now that I have explored stuff like in-room decay (ie, measuring speakers in room with REW), I am in agreement with the implication that "tinitus+sealed=bad". But not because it makes tinnitus worse (and I perceive "making it worse" as "being aggravated for any period of time after you stop listening"), but because you have a lower threshold for "decay", and decay "in room" is reflections, and what are closed headphones going to boing compared to open ones... — Reflecting!

How about in-ears? You could get very good sound for very little.

based on a budget of $2000

Invest that money in something, and in a month or so you can cash out the interest and go buy some JBL Endurance Run 2 Wired IEM headphones. I couldn't believe it (after so many years of prefering on-ear headphones) when I bought my first chi-fi IEM's based (moondrop chu-1's) based upon this forums reviews; and I had a few <$50 IEM's since; but those JBL are OP!!!!! They aren't "100%", but they are "90%" of the good IEM's (which are all > old school DT880) — and for $20 or whatever, you may as well find out what 90% of 140% is! And I have had a few IEM's like Moondrop CHU 1, but I lost them, and Moondrop CHU 2, but the "filters siezed" (sweat, fkn climate change), and others — and they were all a bit better, but also maybe 0% to 50% more expensive, which is like $2? Haha. You can't lose at these prices!

 

[Subob]

I have the DT880, and the HD800s.
I like them both. I prefer the HD800s since it is more comfortable. I worry that I also like it because it was more expensive.

Here is the HD800s as reviewed by Amir:
View attachment 473556
That's not bright, it does have weak bass as delivered.

Here are the DT880 250Ohm and the HD800s compared from measurements by Solderdude, who uses a different fixture than Amir:
View attachment 473557

I EQ both, particularly in the bass region. If I overdrive the DT880 the bass distorts, but that is at volumes too loud for my comfort.

Did you manage to EQ some decent bass into the HD800S?

It was their aneamic bass that put me off them. I liked everything else about them tbf.

If they can be 'fixed' with EQ, they might be right up the OP's street.

 

[MAB]

Did you manage to EQ some decent bass into the HD800S?

It was their aneamic bass that put me off them. I liked everything else about them tbf.

If they can be 'fixed' with EQ, they might be right up the OP's street.

Yes, they sound great with bass boost. So do the DT880. Most headphones need significant EQ.

EQ makes it easier to overdrive them, but I can't listen to headphones at high volume without getting fight-or-flight syndrome.

 

[Phorize]

Wow really? If closed backs increase tinnitus then it sounds like the DCA E3s are out of the question. Based on your comments as well as others, it sounds like it'd be possible to tolerate the brightness of the HD 800s if I can EQ them right. Looks like people have made eq profiles for this specific purpose? Also do you have any experience with the HEDDphone TWO's?

Sound isolation can reduce masking effects of environmental noise and make existing tinnitus more obvious. Also, I believe the inner ear has a mechanism that effectively increases gain (I think by as much as 10 or more dB) if it perceives occlusion of the ear canal-this can lead to an increased perception of existing tinnitus. I'd imagine that the huge cups of the E3 won't to bad on this front.

 

[AryaStealth]

Anyone here tried the HE1000SEs but hated them? If so what did you not like about them? Also has anyone done an A/B comparison between the HE1000SEs and the Sennheiser HD 800S?

Everything depends on your hearing. If it is still linear from 125Hz to 8Khz you can actually like the 2khz Hifiman dip on certain music genres which makes a very spacious presentation but also pushes vocals too far. If you have some minor hearing loss in the crucial 2-4khz area (for example -5db dips and peaks) I think you won't like them, the sound would be muffled or very unnatural. With 800s you can experience a very noticable channel imbalance instead of hyper details if your hearing is not linear in 4-8khz (unless both left and right ear have the same peaks and dips). To my ears 800s is one of the worst sounding Sennheiser headphones, but many people like them for peaky treble which can be perceived as hyper detailed.

 

[isamu99]

Everything depends on your hearing. If it is still linear from 125Hz to 8Khz you can actually like the 2khz Hifiman dip on certain music genres which makes a very spacious presentation but also pushes vocals too far. If you have some minor hearing loss in the crucial 2-4khz area (for example -5db dips and peaks) I think you won't like them, the sound would be muffled or very unnatural. With 800s you can experience a very noticable channel imbalance instead of hyper details if your hearing is not linear in 4-8khz (unless both left and right ear have the same peaks and dips). To my ears 800s is one of the worst sounding Sennheiser headphones, but many people like them for peaky treble which can be perceived as hyper detailed.

Interesting thanks guys.

OK after watching WaveTheory's review, you guys may have to talk me out of getting the HE1000 Unveiled lol. Much more expensive but damn, everything he(and other YT'ers) have said about them makes them very very tempting. They are falling head over heels for these cans!

 

[Subob]

Interesting thanks guys.

OK after watching WaveTheory's review, you guys may have to talk me out of getting the HE1000 Unveiled lol. Much more expensive but damn, everything he(and other YT'ers) have said about them makes them very very tempting. They are falling head over heels for these cans!

Not wishing to bring you down too much, but sadly you rarely see a bad review of a headphone, or most other audio gear for that matter on YouTube, unfortunately. I would say take with a large pinch of salt.

Having said that, you have to start trying at some point, so it's good that you've atleast pinpointed one you really think could be the one for you. Makes sense to go for it, especially if you have a returns policy.

 

[Subob]

Yes, they sound great with bass boost. So do the DT880. Most headphones need significant EQ.

EQ makes it easier to overdrive them, but I can't listen to headphones at high volume without getting fight-or-flight syndrome.

That's interesting. I tend not to use EQ, although I have dabbled, and just go for ones where I like the stock sound.

Good that you got the sennheiser 800's to where you want them

 

[Chagall]

Interesting thanks guys.

OK after watching WaveTheory's review, you guys may have to talk me out of getting the HE1000 Unveiled lol. Much more expensive but damn, everything he(and other YT'ers) have said about them makes them very very tempting. They are falling head over heels for these cans!

Don’t rely only on purely subjective reviews. Start with Amir's video on headphone measurements:

If you watch reviews on YouTube, look for ones that include both subjective impressions (listening experience) and objective measurements of headphone performance. For example, this one:

 

[Svend P]

you guys may have to talk me out of getting the HE1000 Unveiled lol.

Easy. With headphones and electronics it doesn't get better the more you spend. Only trust measurements.

There is really nothing here to justify the price

HiFiMAN HE1000 Unveiled - Measurements & Official Discussion

This is the place to discuss all things to do with the HiFiMAN HE1000 Unveiled: I’ve posted my impressions of it in a different thread already so I’ll add them here, along with the measurements. B&K 5128 Raw GRAS & HpTF Variation Folks know that I hate the ‘unveiled’ concept, but...

forum.headphones.com

Just look at a Dan Clark headphone at a fifth the price of the Hifiman. It is hard to beat:

'Dan Clark Audio AEON RT Review (closed headphone)'

Jan 15, 2021

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Dan Clark ÆON RT closed back headphone. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing and costs US $500.

In a sea of similar looking headphones, the ÆON RT manages to distinguish itself with a uniqe shape:

This makes the cup smaller which can be good for travel although I find that it almost touches the top of my ears. Clamp pressure is a tad high for my head causing a bit of strain after a few hours of use.

The pads feel soft and luxurious. A set of filter pads are supplied that get mounted inside to control the...

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• Forum: Headphone & IEM Reviews & Discussions

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