Coming from HD 650 (w/ EQ), what kind of upgrade can $1k-$2k get?

[dyross]

Hi folks,

I've been happily using an HD 650 (w/ EQ) for mixing / production duties for a few years. Now that I'm getting into the headphone hobby from a listening perspective as well, I'm looking into a potential upgrade.

I currently use oratory1990's EQ guide to Harman target. From my reading, it seems like there's two (oversimplified) camps - those who EQ (and likely think FR is the main differentiator in terms of performance between headphones), and those that don't. For where I'm at, I'm still learning, but I find the reasoning in this reddit thread compelling.

So, my question is - what would an upgrade get me, if I EQ it to a similar sound profile? Some specifics:

- I've read that HD 800 S is the soundstage and comfort king. I wouldn't mind improvements in both of these from my HD 650 - the clamping is a bit tight for my large head and large ears, and they feel a bit congested in terms of stage. Clearly comfort won't be affected by EQ, but will soundstage?
- I've never tried a planar - how much will the differences between planars and dynamics be masked by EQ'ing towards Harman? I would lean towards trying something like the Arya (Organic?) or the LCD-X in this range, but open to other suggestions.
- When do diminishing returns start to really kick in if you EQ towards Harman? For flagships, for example, are you mostly paying for build and their individual tuning? Or, would, say, an EQ'ed-to-Harman Empyrean II be vastly different (and objectively superior) to my EQ-ed-to-Harman HD 650 in terms of performance (obviously, superior in build and comfort).

Thanks,
David

 

[solderdude]

- I've read that HD 800 S is the soundstage and comfort king. I wouldn't mind improvements in both of these from my HD 650 - the clamping is a bit tight for my large head and large ears, and they feel a bit congested in terms of stage. Clearly comfort won't be affected by EQ, but will soundstage?

Soundstage is something that varies from person to person. Imaging and 'soundstage' is 'better' on HD800S but is not as 'visceral' in the bass as HD650.

You can lower the clamping force of the HD650.

- I've never tried a planar - how much will the differences between planars and dynamics be masked by EQ'ing towards Harman? I would lean towards trying something like the Arya (Organic?) or the LCD-X in this range, but open to other suggestions.

Planars can take EQ better in the lows at higher listening levels without distortion.
Most hifiman planars have a metalic 'sheen' (which can be EQ'ed) which HD650 does not have and could irritate where others love that.

- When do diminishing returns start to really kick in if you EQ towards Harman? For flagships, for example, are you mostly paying for build and their individual tuning? Or, would, say, an EQ'ed-to-Harman Empyrean II be vastly different (and objectively superior) to my EQ-ed-to-Harman HD 650 in terms of performance (obviously, superior in build and comfort).

VFM is a personal factor and depends on how sensitive one is to changes in tonal structure of the treble region mostly.
To some VFM gets bad at $50 and for others >1k$ headphones still offer some worthwhile improvements in sound quality, comfort or quality feel/looks.

 

[dyross]

Hey, thanks for the response!

Soundstage is something that varies from person to person. Imaging and 'soundstage' is 'better' on HD800S but is not as 'visceral' in the bass as HD650.

How much would EQ'ing both close to Harman target (via oratory1990 presets) affect this?

You can lower the clamping force of the HD650.

I assume that as long as you still get a good seal, this doesn't change FR very much, right?

Planars can take EQ better in the lows at higher listening levels without distortion.
Most hifiman planars have a metalic 'sheen' (which can be EQ'ed) which HD650 does not have and could irritate where others love that.

I'm not currently noticing too much distortion at current levels on my HD 650.
What else, other than FR, should I expect to notice with planars at this range?

VFM is a personal factor and depends on how sensitive one is to changes in tonal structure of the treble region mostly.
To some VFM gets bad at $50 and for others >1k$ headphones still offer some worthwhile improvements in sound quality, comfort or quality feel/looks.

Right, get that.

But are there clear things I should expect to notice with >$1k in terms of sound quality, assuming I EQ to the same target?

Thanks again!

 

[solderdude]

Hey, thanks for the response!



How much would EQ'ing both close to Harman target (via oratory1990 presets) affect this?

That would depend on the EQ itself, what that EQ is based on, how your HRTF differs from a standard measurement.
In other words ... hard to predict.

I assume that as long as you still get a good seal, this doesn't change FR very much, right?

right..

I'm not currently noticing too much distortion at current levels on my HD 650.
What else, other than FR, should I expect to notice with planars at this range?

Most planars have some 'zingy-ness' to them (peaking in the 8-12kHz range which does not register (correctly) on industry standard test fixtures.
Some people like that extra 'sharpness' which is basically 'fake detail' and others don't.

But are there clear things I should expect to notice with >$1k in terms of sound quality, assuming I EQ to the same target?

Some headphones sound just 'better' in some aspects to some people.
HD650 is notoriously 'narrow' in soundstage and imaging. There are headphones that do better in this aspect.

 

[Ilkless]

I went from equalised HD650 to Audeze LCD-2 with my tweaked Harman EQ + crossfeed for the low bass distortion, extension and relative insensitivity to seal. Along the way I also tried LCD-3, Aeon 2 Open, LCD-2 Classic, Auteur Classic, Meze Empyrean and Meze Classic 109. If you can take the weight, the right EQ on the LCD-2 is stunning in my experience. Like on most recordings, even as a skeptical listener, it sounds like desktop monitors, such is the spatial and tonal fidelity. And with the right recordings, full-size speakers.

I also really liked the Classic 109 for price, haptics and lightness. I wouldn't go DCA -- too sensitive to seal.