Combined 2ch system and home theater

[Kal Rubinson]

Why do you need the Emotiva or any other such device (except for HT)? Why not DAC output to the amps?

 

[jjk]

How will I control the volume for all three dacs?
And I also need the amps for HT.

 

[jjk]

Another way to ask what I'm referring to in post #40 is, of the Pre/Pros that Amir has listed, is there a way to judge the performance of a pure analog path: MCH Analog in>>>RCA/Balanced Out.
No DAC, no HDMI, no tone controls, Volume control only.
Thanks!

 

[Neddy]

I'm in almost the same boat, jjk- the Mch 'tech conundrum'!

7.1 chan system, w/1 subwoofer.

Present system is: Oppo->Emotiva UMC-200 (yah, I know) for movies/SACDs/Bluray Audio.

Upgrade in progress: OktoDAC Pro (ordered); all 8 chan amps now have balanced inputs (to play nice with OktoDAC), Okto driven by NUC PC via (for now) USB.

What to do with 'legacy' Oppo/Emo mch/movie/discs?

Additional 'feature': I'm using a Venu360 downstream of the Okto for bi-amped mains (plus sub) crossovers; handily, I can use the Okto's AES dig outs to drive the Venu mains all digital (no A-D). (Venu has AES and analog inputs)

Plan A: For Bluray/SACD stereo playback: Use the Oppo's AES stereo outputs to the Okto's AES inputs. Solves one use case!
Alternatively, I could connect Oppo AES directly to the Venu, but would have to use the Oppo for volume control, realistically.

Plan Bi: For Movies (less rigorous audio quality requirements) Manually switch (cables!) between Emotiva's analog outputs to the Venu (would require a setup change, from file, I think) and 5 ch power amp (has both bal and unbal inputs).

Plan Bii: Build a 5 ch 5PDT switch for the 5 ch amp inputs - really not that hard, switches themselves aren't too expensive.

Plan C: hope/wait for an HDMI-> AES 8 ch box to magically appear at an affordable price, so I can flip between USB and AES inputs on the OktoDAC.
Plan D: hope/wait for Okto to do an HDMI version of the OktoDAC.
Plan E: Very curious to see the capabilities of the next gen Playstation5 - might be a good alternative to the aging Oppo but won't really solve any of these issues, but I've read that it will retain Bluray drive and movie HT capabilities....

Yah. It's complicated.

(Kal, that switch box looks definitely intriguing - please let us know how it works out! Will you be using to switch balanced or unbalanced signals?)

But, using the OktoDAC's AES + USB inputs (not to mention DAW capabilities!) to provide source switching (AES <-> USB) and preamp gain and channel output level control (via remote, too) solves some of the tougher 'hi-spec desire' issues.

In theory. I'll let you know how it all turns out!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

How will I control the volume for all three dacs?

I control the volume from JRiver. What player are you using?

And I also need the amps for HT.

I'd use a switch if I needed or wanted HT with independence from my music source.

Another way to ask what I'm referring to in post #40 is, of the Pre/Pros that Amir has listed, is there a way to judge the performance of a pure analog path: MCH Analog in>>>RCA/Balanced Out.
No DAC, no HDMI, no tone controls, Volume control only.

In my CT. system, I play music/audio with JRiver through 3 Mytek Brooklyn DACs which feed the 7.1 analog input on the Marantz AV8805. The result is very satisfying as well as clearly superior to running digital into the Marantz (despite Amir's critical comments on the latter). This is also very convenient in operation.
In my NY system, there is no HT to consider. Player to DAC to amps.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

(Kal, that switch box looks definitely intriguing - please let us know how it works out! Will you be using to switch balanced or unbalanced signals?)

Balanced. The one I am building will use sealed relay switching rather than a rotary switch with vulnerable contacts.

 

[jjk]

Thanks Kal.
Yes, my set up looks like it is the same as your CT except I use I2S , Matrix Pros and an Emotiva XMC-1.
I am just concerned at a potential loss of fidelity as indicated by the Amir Pre/Pro measurements. If you or Amir feel like just using a Pre Pro as an analog passthrough is not a big deal then my question is answered and no worries.
Definitely agreed that your's/mine is definitely superior to HDMI.
Controlling volume with JRiver is an option but not necessarily a domestically friendly one...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Definitely agreed that your's/mine is definitely superior to HDMI.

or USB or LAN or any other digital route.

Controlling volume with JRiver is an option but not necessarily a domestically friendly one...

I added one of these:

 

[jjk]

Kal,
do you have a reference for the above volume control?

 

[ernestcarl]

There are many other options for controlling volume:

If using something like miniDSP there's the WI-DG smartphone/tablet app.. FLIRC in conjunction with JRiver... IR extenders... etc.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,
do you have a reference for the above volume control?

If using something like miniDSP there's the WI-DG smartphone/tablet app.. FLIRC in conjunction with JRiver... IR extenders... etc.

Yes. I have tried tried most of those but this little toy is a real physical volume knob which I prefer to keyboard buttons, anything on a tablet screen or a remote control with up/down buttons. https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Lossless-Computer-Controller-Adjuster/dp/B01MV411BR

 

[Sal1950]

Yes. I have tried tried most of those but this little toy is a real physical volume knob which I prefer to keyboard buttons, anything on a tablet screen or a remote control with up/down buttons. https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Lossless-Computer-Controller-Adjuster/dp/B01MV411BR

Dang, there's a plethora of these things on amazon right around that price.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Dang, there's a plethora of these things on amazon right around that price.

No doubt. I saw quite a few but was unable to find out anything useful or relevant about them to help me make a choice. So, I picked this one because the mfr. has a real website and I have Amazon Prime (if there are problems). It works. Not perfectly but good enough. I cannot say whether any of the others are better or worse.

 

[ernestcarl]

Yes. I have tried tried most of those but this little toy is a real physical volume knob which I prefer to keyboard buttons, anything on a tablet screen or a remote control with up/down buttons. https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Lossless-Computer-Controller-Adjuster/dp/B01MV411BR

It’s definitely more ergonomic — but could be better — wish there was a battery option in it so one could eschew the wire altogether.

 

[jjk]

Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm sure all those alternative volume controls are valid solutions to the volume problem.
But I still don't see how to solve a conflict between a home theater application and a computer audiophile application.
Yes, you can run your dac(s) straight into the power amp(s) and control the volume, but now how are you going to operate your Oppo/Directv (HDMI) without separate amps/speakers?
The switching action of a Pre/Pro is quite valuable unless you want to manually swap connections. And according to Amir's measurements, the Pre/Pro may be a huge performance bottleneck.

Again, I don't care about the audiophile quality of Oppo/Directv. That will be good enough through, in my case, an Emotiva XMC-1.

Or, is the MCH analog passthrough function of Pre/Pro devices much cleaner than the Amir measurements otherwise indicate?
Thanks, good weekend!

 

[gene_stl]

I have been thinking about the same issues as I assemble what is required for the expansion to high quality multichannel audio.
I suppose there are not enough of us to interest hardware producers. Some potential do it yourself items are listed below.

For me home theater will be definitely secondary or tertiary and of only incidental interest.

I haven't pulled any triggers yet because I haven't figured out how many multi channel sources will go to my crossover inputs.

A recordist friend of mine suggests a patch bay but I am not inclined to move half a dozen cables to change inputs. Nor even three , if stereo cable sets were used.

It looks like there will be at least three sources. An AV Pre Processor, and Oppo 205 and a computer/NAS


https://www.tindie.com/products/skrodahl/muffsy-relay-input-selector-kit/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/169...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It’s definitely more ergonomic — but could be better — wish there was a battery option in it so one could eschew the wire altogether.

It needs the wire for USB control. Have you looked at the Microsoft Surface Dial?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Yes, you can run your dac(s) straight into the power amp(s) and control the volume, but now how are you going to operate your Oppo/Directv (HDMI) without separate amps/speakers?

One way is with a switch. If I was using unbal/RCA, I would use my Zektor MAS7.1 (https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-27-page-2 ). Since I prefer bal/XLR, I need an 8 channel switch which I am working on

Or, is the MCH analog passthrough function of Pre/Pro devices much cleaner than the Amir measurements otherwise indicate?

You have to decide that for yourself. I do that with my CT system rather than bother with more complexity.
.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have been thinking about the same issues as I assemble what is required for the expansion to high quality multichannel audio.
I suppose there are not enough of us to interest hardware producers. Some potential do it yourself items are listed below.

For me home theater will be definitely secondary or tertiary and of only incidental interest.

I haven't pulled any triggers yet because I haven't figured out how many multi channel sources will go to my crossover inputs.

A recordist friend of mine suggests a patch bay but I am not inclined to move half a dozen cables to change inputs. Nor even three , if stereo cable sets were used.

It looks like there will be at least three sources. An AV Pre Processor, and Oppo 205 and a computer/NAS


https://www.tindie.com/products/skrodahl/muffsy-relay-input-selector-kit/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/169...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

Those are all unbal/RCA devices and I already have a Zektor MAS7.1 for that. Since I need 8 channels of bal/XLR switching, I am experimenting with stacking 4 of these WZ-60 switches.

 

[gene_stl]

I was pretty sure if "China Inc." built a 5.1 , that a 7.1 could not be too far behind, but had not been able to find the above.
Finding something twice on AlieExpress or AliBaba seems to be a toss of the dice.

The balanced unbalanced question is a separate issue. Which I will also need to deal with. No wonder there are only seven people doing this in the entire country.